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Thread: General Discussion Thread #4

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    What if she went to the bathroom and relieved herself before OP shot the door or even called out to the 'intruder'? That still satisfies the notion that BIB1 she could still technically be alive when he found her. I disagree with you BIB2 that all that would of took 20 minutes, especially in a state of panic. Also, BIB3 the bloody swipes could of came from her hair if there was blood on it.
    BIB1 - I agree with you, she could still technically be alive when he found her. But not even when he reached the entrance hall with her. And THAT'S I tried to explain.

    BIB2 - You forget the 2 calls he did. First he had to explain Stander what happened. And Stander would ask questions to understand. Second he had to explain Netcare exactly what happened. Netcare would ask any more questions and would tell him what to do next. So, 20 minutes not too much - IMO

    BIB3 - If bloody swipes on the wall where he carried her down the steps came from her bloody hair, OP must have shaken her body when he carried her downstairs. Otherwise her head movements wouldn't be strong enough to give bloody swipes on the wall. - IMO
    Last edited by Pisto_lius; 04-12-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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  3. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    BIB1 - I agree with you, she could still technically be alive when he found her. But not even when he reached the entrance hall with her. And THAT'S I tried to explain.

    BIB2 - You forget the 2 calls he did. First he had to explain Stander what happened. And Stander would ask questions to understand. Second he had to explain Netcare exactly what happened. Netcare would ask any more questions and would tell him what to do next. So, 20 minutes not too much - IMO

    BIB3 - If bloody swipes on the wall where he carried her down the steps came from her bloody hair, OP must have shaken her body when he carried her downstairs. Otherwise her head movements wouldn't be strong enough to give bloody swipes on the wall. - IMO
    1. The lack of urine in the bladder does nothing to further the theory one way or the other. Your speculating not only how long it would of taken that whole series of events, but also how much urine she needed to produce to have it leave her body upon death. Remember, the lack of urine in her bladder does not disprove OP if you go by the notion she was in there not due to an argument, but to go to the bathroom. I have not seen one scenario yet that explains how they got into this incredible fight yet somehow found a way to go into the bathroom to take a pee before shots were fired. You can assume all the urine came out of her at death, but where is the evidence of that? We haven't heard it yet, if it's there at all.

    2. If he's running in a panic, holding a woman, especially someone who is on prosthetic legs, why is it unreasonable to this that her head would be swaying to cause blood streaks via hair?

  4. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    1. The lack of urine in the bladder does nothing to further the theory one way or the other. Your speculating not only how long it would of taken that whole series of events, but also how much urine she needed to produce to have it leave her body upon death. Remember, the lack of urine in her bladder does not disprove OP if you go by the notion she was in there not due to an argument, but to go to the bathroom. I have not seen one scenario yet that explains how they got into this incredible fight yet somehow found a way to go into the bathroom to take a pee before shots were fired. You can assume all the urine came out of her at death, but where is the evidence of that? We haven't heard it yet, if it's there at all.

    2. If he's running in a panic, holding a woman, especially someone who is on prosthetic legs, why is it unreasonable to this that her head would be swaying to cause blood streaks via hair?
    If she lost her urine in death, that will be very easy to tell, she was shot with her shorts on, there should be evidence in her panties/on her shorts of urine if she released in death. IMO

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  6. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    Is it too far-fetched to surmise that when Botha said there was only one way this could have happened, what he meant was that OP shot RS through the bathroom door in anger and purposely killed her? What is the reason to believe a prior assault occurred elsewhere in the house?

    The bat had blood on it, and something was used to break down the door. If RS did not have her skull bashed in, as her brother has stated, and if she did not have defense wounds on her, which we have also learned, then it seems sensible to surmise that the bat got blood on it in the commission of breaking down the door. The blood spatters on the phones, just a few feet away from the bathroom door, may have come from the swinging bat.

    IIRC, we don't know how much blood was on the bat. A bloody bad could mean a red dripping nightmare, or it could mean a few sprays.
    In my humble opinion it is not as far fetched as killing a person with 3-4 shots on the moving target in complete darkness behind a door not knowing which corner he is hiding and not hearing a single scream even sighing even not understanding from his shouts that she is a female in between that 4 shots..
    .
    Just shot yr eyes one can not even hold his arm straight let alone when too scared to switch a light on with the stumps with limited mobility with a gun in hand ... It is not farfetched. It is impossible. IMO

    What you say is slightly possible . The lights would be on and OP could hear noise..

    But why not taking her out ? Why shotting behind the door ? Shotting
    one when not seeing her seems so weird. It is more plausible a face to face argument , fighting, shouting to each other's faces ..and my supporting ideas to that is the lost bullet then suddenly found in the toilet. It would be put to where the killing is aimed to occur and that was the toilet a proof with brain tissues.
    And secondly from the affidavit I tried to explain before ' I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked. ' IMO she tried to run away from that room touching the key and the door handle with her bloody hands.. and OP mentioned that in his affidavit as if he himself touched there with his bloody
    hands when battling and pulling RS out

    JMO

  7. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    In my humble opinion it is not as far fetched as killing a person with 3-4 shots on the moving target in complete darkness behind a door not knowing which corner he is hiding and not hearing a single scream even sighing even not understanding from his shouts that she is a female in between that 4 shots..
    JMO
    snipped

    I appreciate your opinion, and all differing opinions when they're presented in respectful and friendly fashion. Thank you for that.

    It's been said many times that, in the toilet room, "she had nowhere to go".

    I picture the two of them exchanging words before shots were fired, i.e. "I'll shoot you b**ch if you don't come out!" "Noooooo!!! Get ahold of yourself!" so he knew where she was in the toilet room.

    We don't know if it was dark in the bathroom.

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  9. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    1. The lack of urine in the bladder does nothing to further the theory one way or the other. Your speculating not only how long it would of taken that whole series of events, but also how much urine she needed to produce to have it leave her body upon death. Remember, the lack of urine in her bladder does not disprove OP if you go by the notion she was in there not due to an argument, but to go to the bathroom. I have not seen one scenario yet that explains how they got into this incredible fight yet somehow found a way to go into the bathroom to take a pee before shots were fired. You can assume all the urine came out of her at death, but where is the evidence of that? We haven't heard it yet, if it's there at all.

    2. If he's running in a panic, holding a woman, especially someone who is on prosthetic legs, why is it unreasonable to this that her head would be swaying to cause blood streaks via hair?
    BIB - I respectfully disagree. The empty bladder is one of the most important facts in this case, because it shows WHEN and WHERE Reeva died. - IMO
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  11. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    The segment of your post that you say is the most salient is the part I've been commenting on, not ignoring.

    I don't accept OP's affidavit as true, but I believe he would hesitate to say he spoke to someone when he didn't. That would be akin to him swearing that he used weapon A, when bullet casings prove he used weapon B.

    Perhaps you're right about it all.. but there's good reason to believe he did speak to someone and was told to take her to the hospital.
    I wonder did he tell him them the truth, not just that she had been shot but multiple times, once in the side of the head which could have fractured her neck and upper spine, the hip, possibly fracturing the lower spine, the profuse bleeding at the scene. IMO he knew what he was doing when he did not wait a few minutes for help to arrive. No he'd rather lift her all on his own, her head dangling, her blood soaked hair brushing the walls. IMO a criminal act on it's own but he had to show how he wanted to save her and what a finale for his affidavit " she died in my arms ".

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    BIB - I respectfully disagree. The empty bladder is one of the most important facts in this case, because it shows WHEN and WHERE Reeva died. - IMO
    I'm sorry but I disagree. We all know she died on that hallway floor in the presence of paramedics/a doctor.

    Anyhow, for all we can speculate, Reeva hadn't even had a chance to sit down on the loo yet for a whizz when OP started screaming about intruders. So maybe, just maybe, she never got the chance to relieve herself on the loo as she intended. Just to throw another angle on the story

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  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    Yes OP's affidavit is just his written outline of events and as Nel said it has not yet been tested in the witness box. This is when inconsistencies will be truly identified when he gets up there and is questioned on the things that join it all together, the full account spoken from his own mouth of how everything went down that night.
    I'm not familiar with SA rules of evidence, but in the US, an affidavit is considered hearsay (with exceptions) and under specific circumstances is inadmissable.

    If SA rules of evidence are similar to US rules of evidence, I think the only way OP's affidavit can be admitted as evidence is if he testifies, and then the affidavit can be used to impeach his testimony and/or statements. If OP doesn't testify, I don't believe his bail hearing affidavit can be admitted as evidence, since a document cannot be examined or cross-examined.

    I don't think OP can be compelled to testify - it would be his choice, if SA has the same constitutional rights that protect a criminal defendant from self-incrimination.

    When & if this case goes to trial, it will be interesting to see if he takes the stand, won't it?
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  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    snipped

    I appreciate your opinion, and all differing opinions when they're presented in respectful and friendly fashion. Thank you for that.

    It's been said many times that, in the toilet room, "she had nowhere to go".

    I picture the two of them exchanging words before shots were fired, i.e. "I'll shoot you b**ch if you don't come out!" "Noooooo!!! Get ahold of yourself!" so he knew where she was in the toilet room.

    We don't know if it was dark in the bathroom.


    She had nowhere to go means to me that she was trapped there.. doesn't mean just a one and only one place to stand .There were 4 corners there..and a middle part.. lalso she could be hiding in sitting position or standing position in one of those corners ..

    If the bathroom lights were on, how could the bedroom be pitch dark ?
    There is not a door for the bathroom at the end of the hallway as far as I know? only the toilet has a seperate door ...

    BTW you are welcome.. I also appreciate every single post that could move us a little further..
    Last edited by MURDERER_SERVANT; 04-12-2013 at 05:42 PM.

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  19. #136
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    Regarding the empty bladder: when a person suffers a traumatic injury that results in severe blood loss, the body goes into hypovolemic shock, which would affect organ function. The kidneys would cease urine production in an effort to sustain blood pressure.

    If Reeva had emptied her bladder shortly before being shot, her kidneys would have immediately ceased urine production after being shot, due to the severe blood loss.

    I have to concede that the lack of urine in her bladder could support the Defense.

    However, if forensic tests show that her shorts were urine-soaked, it supports another scenario, IMO. Also, if urine was found in the abdominal cavity @ autopsy (I have no idea, since the autopsy report hasn't been released to the public), it could mean a bullet pierced her bladder (perhaps the bullet wound to her right hip?), causing its contents to be released internally.

    I know it may sound gruesome to some, but I wish the AR (autopsy report) was public. In following past cases, I've learned an incredible amount from reading them.
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  21. #137
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    The Defense still has to explain the 2nd phone on the bathroom floor on/near the bathmat. OP would have only needed his phone to call for help or to call whomever he called.

    If the 2nd phone on the bathroom floor is Reeva's - I think it means Reeva may have been trying to call for help before she locked herself in the toilet, but either dropped the phone during a struggle or OP snatched the phone out of her hand to prevent her from calling for help. If so, it can only mean that a violent confrontation of some sort occurred prior to her locking herself in the toilet.

    If one of the phones on the bathroom floor is Reeva's, that's in the prosecution's favor, because there would be no logical reason for it to be on the floor. On the counter - yes. On the floor - no, IMO.
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  23. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    [/B]

    She had nowhere to go means to me that she was trapped there.. doesn't mean just a one and only one place to stand .There were 4 corners there..and a middle part.. lalso she could be hiding in sitting position or standing position in one of those corners ..

    If the bathroom lights were on, how could the bedroom be pitch dark ?
    There is not a door for the bathroom at the end of the hallway as far as I know? only the toilet has a seperate door ...

    BTW you are welcome.. I also appreciate every single post that could move us a little further..
    Aha, we differ here. To me "she had nowhere to go" means you can't hide in a toilet closet. If there are shots, chances are you will be hit. Especially if your voice tells the tale of where you're located in that small space. It could be that the stalemate between them lasted a little while, and they exchanged words during that time with the door between them.

    The bathroom and the bedroom are separate rooms, so no one knows if the light was on in the bathroom. I think it was.

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  25. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    I wonder did he tell him them the truth, not just that she had been shot but multiple times, once in the side of the head which could have fractured her neck and upper spine, the hip, possibly fracturing the lower spine, the profuse bleeding at the scene. IMO he knew what he was doing when he did not wait a few minutes for help to arrive. No he'd rather lift her all on his own, her head dangling, her blood soaked hair brushing the walls. IMO a criminal act on it's own but he had to show how he wanted to save her and what a finale for his affidavit " she died in my arms ".
    Good point W. How much did he disclose on the phone? Kinda hard to say, "yes, THE Oscar Pistorius. Oops, I think I shot her four times". What did he say in these calls?

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  27. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    The Defense still has to explain the 2nd phone on the bathroom floor on/near the bathmat. OP would have only needed his phone to call for help or to call whomever he called.

    If the 2nd phone on the bathroom floor is Reeva's - I think it means Reeva may have been trying to call for help before she locked herself in the toilet, but either dropped the phone during a struggle or OP snatched the phone out of her hand to prevent her from calling for help. If so, it can only mean that a violent confrontation of some sort occurred prior to her locking herself in the toilet.

    If one of the phones on the bathroom floor is Reeva's, that's in the prosecution's favor, because there would be no logical reason for it to be on the floor. On the counter - yes. On the floor - no, IMO.
    SS, my theory has been that the argument began in the bathroom. RS was on her phone texting or checking a text. OP enters and goes nuts, grabs her phone from her hands, somehow his phone lands where he throws hers down, because IIRC the phone on the mat is not the phone he used to call for help.

    From that point, RS runs into the loo (shout out to Carol). A standoff ensues.

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  29. #141
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    OP is not an idiot. He can't be both an idiot and trying to save her life.

    No one shoots blindly, in the dark, at a bathroom door when you have a roommate much less someone you supposedly love living with you.

    Was the bathroom on the other side of the house? No. Was she killed in that bathroom? Yes.

    Did she die in the bathroom? Maybe not literally but if you die in front of paramedics in a hall way, you might has well died in the bathroom.

    Does the lack of urine in her bladder mean anything? Yes and No.

    Someone up the thread said it could have happened at time of death. That is a big possibility, also depending on how many bullets hit her and where.

    If no, it could have meant that they had already been arguing and she had been preparing for bed and already peed.

    Urine doesn't clear him or make him more guilty. It is the rest of the facts.

    I have never even read about OP until he involved himself in the death of his girlfriend. This just makes him another boyfriend with a dead girlfriend.

    Take the fame away and it all comes down to who is the first suspect when someone ends up dead in their house.

    1. Home owner

    2. Significant other.

    He happens to be both one and two. It doesn't look good for him. I don't care who he is or what he did prior to his girlfriend ending up dead with a gun shot in his house.

    Time will tell all. If he did it, I hope he is prosecuted to the full extent of the law and if he didn't then I guess he gets to go free.

    Please just hope that South Africa's legal system is not registered on celebrity like ours.
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  31. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Regarding the empty bladder: when a person suffers a traumatic injury that results in severe blood loss, the body goes into hypovolemic shock, which would affect organ function. The kidneys would cease urine production in an effort to sustain blood pressure.

    If Reeva had emptied her bladder shortly before being shot, her kidneys would have immediately ceased urine production after being shot, due to the severe blood loss.

    I have to concede that the lack of urine in her bladder could support the Defense.

    However, if forensic tests show that her shorts were urine-soaked, it supports another scenario, IMO. Also, if urine was found in the abdominal cavity @ autopsy (I have no idea, since the autopsy report hasn't been released to the public), it could mean a bullet pierced her bladder (perhaps the bullet wound to her right hip?), causing its contents to be released internally.

    I know it may sound gruesome to some, but I wish the AR (autopsy report) was public. In following past cases, I've learned an incredible amount from reading them.
    BIB - I respectfully disagree.

    If a patient has a hypovolemic shock (after being shot) the kidneys wouldn't cease urine production and much less immediately!

    The kidneys decrease in the output of urine depending on the severity of the shock.

    There are 4 stages of hypovolemic shock:

    Stage 1 - blood volume loss up to 15% (750 ml) = urine output-normal

    Stage 2 - blood volume loss up to 15–30% (750 to 1500 ml) = urine output -20 to 30 ml/hour

    Stage 3 - blood volume loss up to 30–40% (1500–2000 ml) = urine output 20 ml/hour

    Stage 4 - blood volume loss more than 40% (greater than 2000 ml) = urine output negligible

    (By the way - I myself come from medical care)
    Last edited by Pisto_lius; 04-12-2013 at 08:49 PM. Reason: forget "-" by Stage 2
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  33. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    SS, my theory has been that the argument began in the bathroom. RS was on her phone texting or checking a text. OP enters and goes nuts, grabs her phone from her hands, somehow his phone lands where he throws hers down, because IIRC the phone on the mat is not the phone he used to call for help.

    From that point, RS runs into the loo (shout out to Carol). A standoff ensues.
    Your theory makes sense.

    I think the argument began in the bedroom earlier in the night.

    Reeva was shot after 3:00 a.m. IMO, 2:00 -3:00 a.m. (the timeframe a witness reportedly heard loud arguing) would be an odd time of night to be checking text messages or to be texting. I think OP had already gone nuts earlier in the night, perhaps locked the bedroom door so Reeva couldn't leave, the argument continued & escalated with perhaps OP threatening Reeva by brandishing his pistol, at which time I think she fled to the bathroom to call for help, which further enraged OP, & a struggle may have ensued over the phone because he didn't want her to call anyone - he wanted her to stay within his realm of control without any outside interference.

    I think it's possible that when OP fired the first shot Reeva may have still been in the bathroom, which could explain why 2 phones were on/near the bath mat (if the 2nd phone is hers). If so, she may have either dropped the phone due to being seriously injured or he took it from her.

    After she locked herself in the toilet room, with no phone, perhaps seriously wounded, I think OP realized if he didn't finish her off, there was no way he wouldn't get charged with attempted murder or aggravated assault, so he fired more rounds through the door, hoping (and succeeding) to kill her.

    After that, he concocted his "intruder" story & bashed the door in with his cricket bat.

    All the above is my opinion.
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  35. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Your theory makes sense.

    I think the argument began in the bedroom earlier in the night.

    Reeva was shot after 3:00 a.m. IMO, 2:00 -3:00 a.m. (the timeframe a witness reportedly heard loud arguing) wouldk be an odd time of night to be checking text messages or to be texting. I think OP had already gone nuts earlier in the night, perhaps locked the bedroom door so Reeva couldn't leave, the argument continued & escalated with perhaps OP threatening Reeva by brandishing his pistol, at which time I think she fled to the bathroom to call for help, which further enraged OP, & a struggle may have ensued over the phone because he didn't want her to call anyone - he wanted her to stay within his realm of control without any outside interference.

    I think it's possible that when OP fired the first shot Reeva may have still been in the bathroom, which could explain why 2 phones were on/near the bath mat (if the 2nd phone is hers). If so, she may have either dropped the phone due to being seriously injured or he took it from her.

    After she locked herself in the toilet room, with no phone, perhaps seriously wounded, I think OP realized if he didn't finish her off, there was no way he wouldn't get charged with attempted murder or aggravated assault, so he fired more rounds through the door, hoping (and succeeding) to kill her.

    After that, he concocted his "intruder" story & bashed the door in with his cricket bat.

    All the above is my opinion.
    That is an excellent theory. But there were four bullet holes in the door of the bathroom, so I believe all shots were fired once she ran in there.
    Where and when the argument began... there's just too little evidence to narrow it down.

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  37. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    BIB - I respectfully disagree.

    If a patient has a hypovolemic shock (after being shot) the kidneys wouldn't cease urine production and much less immediately!

    The kidneys decrease in the output of urine depending on the severity of the shock.

    There are 4 stages of hypovolemic shock:

    Stage 1 - blood volume loss up to 15% (750 ml) = urine output-normal

    Stage 2 - blood volume loss up to 15–30% (750 to 1500 ml) = urine output 20 to 30 ml/hour

    Stage 3 - blood volume loss up to 30–40% (1500–2000 ml) = urine output 20 ml/hour

    Stage 4 - blood volume loss more than 40% (greater than 2000 ml) = urine output negligible

    (By the way - I myself come from medical care)
    I appreciate your input Pisto!

    A gunshot wound to the hip (which Reeva sustained) could have nicked or pierced a major artery (femoral artery, one of the iliac arteries), resulting in life-threatening blood loss within minutes, depending upon the damage.

    Since it has been reported that she died very shortly after being shot, I suspect that her wounds resulted in immediate, severe blood loss, which would have caused her kidneys to cease urine output due to hypovolemic shock. MOO

    I suppose until we have access to the AR, we won't know the COD.
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  39. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carol70 View Post
    I'm sorry but I disagree. We all know she died on that hallway floor in the presence of paramedics/a doctor.

    Anyhow, for all we can speculate, Reeva hadn't even had a chance to sit down on the loo yet for a whizz when OP started screaming about intruders. So maybe, just maybe, she never got the chance to relieve herself on the loo as she intended. Just to throw another angle on the story
    BIB - I respectfully disagree. As I know, Reeva was dead when paramedics arrived.

    Reuters, citing an eyewitness account published in the Sunday Argus of a paramedic on the scene, said Steenkamp was already dead when he arrived.
    http://www.people.com/people/article...675058,00.html
    And here more detailed the statement by a paramedic who was among the first on the scene:

    A paramedic who was among the first on the scene after the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp said he entered Oscar Pistorius’s house and saw a woman’s body near the stairs, covered in blood.

    The paramedic, who asked not to be named, said:

    “There was a lot of activity at the house. The police were moving in and out and there were private security guards outside.

    “When we arrived a woman, who never told us her name, met us in the driveway and showed us through the door. As soon as I walked in, I saw a woman’s body by the stairs and she was covered in blood. There was also a blood trail up the stairs that I could see. “Oscar Pistorius, dressed in shorts and a T-shirt, was just standing there looking at the body. His right leg and arm were covered in blood.

    “He looked rattled,” said the medic, adding that Steenkamp had been wearing a black sweat top and long pants, but no shoes.

    “She was lying on her back at the bottom of the stairs and we were told that she had been shot upstairs, and that Oscar had carried her down to the bottom. She had sustained a gunshot wound to her head and her right arm.

    “The house is really big and there was blood that had collected from her head wound on the polished floor.”

    The medic said they immediately got to work on an already pale Steenkamp, who wasn’t breathing.

    “When we attached the ECG (electro-cardiogram) monitor there was no sign of life, her heart had already stopped beating.”


    The bullet that struck her arm had completely broken the bone.

    The medic said Pistorius told them Steenkamp had stopped breathing three minutes before the ambulance arrived.

    “She had lost a lot of blood. I could see the trail of blood stains on the stairs.”

    The wounds were fatal, and there was nothing they could do for the model. She was declared dead at the scene.

    “When we told Pistorius there was nothing we could do to save her, he started crying.”

    The medic said he had not gone upstairs.

    “As soon as we had done the declaration of the death, the police ushered us outside,” he said.
    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...1#.UWiU86K-2So
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  41. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    That is an excellent theory. But there were four bullet holes in the door of the bathroom, so I believe all shots were fired once she ran in there.
    Where and when the argument began... there's just too little evidence to narrow it down.

    4 bullet holes in the toilet door but only 3 cartridges in front of the door....
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  43. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    BIB - I respectfully disagree. As I know, Reeva was dead when paramedics arrived.



    And here more detailed the statement by a paramedic who was among the first on the scene:
    Thank you for this post. I was also under the impression that Reeva was dead when the paramedics arrived and had not died in the hallway while they were actually there. Her heart had stopped beating, she wasn't breathing, and there was nothing they could do for her. So I agree with you that she was already dead when the paramedics arrived.

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  45. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    I appreciate your input Pisto!

    BIB1 A gunshot wound to the hip (which Reeva sustained) could have nicked or pierced a major artery (femoral artery, one of the iliac arteries), resulting in life-threatening blood loss within minutes, depending upon the damage.

    Since it has been reported that BIB2 she died very shortly after being shot, I suspect that her wounds resulted in immediate, severe blood loss, which would have caused her kidneys to cease urine output due to hypovolemic shock. MOO

    I suppose until we have access to the AR, we won't know the COD.

    BIB1 - Do you mean, the shot to the hip was lethal within minutes? Than this must be the last shot, if I understand aright.

    And than the shot to her head was previously, but not lethal?

    Formally apologise, but I don't think so.

    BIB2 - Now she died very shortly after being shot? It was first said she died only when OP reached the entrance hall with her body.

    I am sorry to say I am rather confused by all of this.

    I'm really curious about the AR
    That's it - Have a nice time....

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  47. #150
    [QUOTE=Carol70;9208836]Respectfully snipped


    Actually, there has only been mention of what one witness had to say and this testimony has already been under dispute. I'm sure all the witnesses have been interviewed and we will only know when trial rolls around what was heard.

    Respectfully snipped

    I heard two or three witness statements I guess .Anyway.. OK. but IMO actually the witness statements just after the case ,in the heat of the murder from the neighbors are very important and significant and should not be disregarded if we really want to know what happened , rather than the witness statements months later on the trial which will higly tried to be handled and manipulated.JMO

    I mean one of them are exactly lying here ? Which one ? OP or the neighbors ?

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