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Thread: IL - Paul J. Fronczak, 1 day, Chicago, 1964 + UID Male, 1, NJ, 1965 - DNA shocker!

  1. #76
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    For whatever reason (unbeknownst to us) the whole Sam Miller angle seems to have gone "poof"…It was taken off of the Facebook PJFronczak page altogether…
    That said, despite great trust in "new" science, I think artist's "age-progressed" renderings of 72 hour newborns into adults is sorely lacking - simply because it's like trying to predict (like tarot card readings) who or what the person will/did become. Case in point - I look absolutely NOTHING like my mother. I have some of my father's physical traits that one would only recognize if they knew us very well. I look nothing like either of them. I know that I am their biological child. Add to that - a baby pic…My son was born with a bushel of curly hair. He outgrew it. Doesn't have it anymore. I could go on and on. The "age progressed" images should be referred to as "One artist thinks he might look like this as an adult"…

    moo

    ETA - I don't know what computer program they're all using to create these images but somehow, a lot of these "age progressions" of missing people are "looking" so similar; they could all be siblings of one another!

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  3. #77
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    I strongly suspect that something unexpectedly happened to PJFronczac's mother when he was left alone in NJ. Mother's often abandon babies in desperation but his story is quite unique. I'm not sure how many children are abandoned in stores but I would suspect that the relative number is low. Maybe she was ill or suffered a life-threatening circumstance (heart attack or aneurism) and the "abandoned child" and missing mother weren't connected. I've tried to find more detailed information regarding how and when and by whom he was found but there doesn't seem too be much available.

    No doubt - there was one solitary wing-bat detective who thought he might have been the Fronczak's child and somehow things spiralled out of control. How on earth would one connect the two if not? Are the FBI files on this case open or still suppressed?

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  5. #78
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    He was 2 1/2 when found in NJ. Could he talk? Was he crying? Did he ask for his mother? Was he well cared for? Were his clothes and stroller clean or dirty? Was there anything attached to the stroller? Toys, food, bag with nappies? Who noticed him alone and unattended? How long had he been so? Who called the authorities? Who were the authorities? Were there any witnesses and what did they have to say?

    …and on and on and on...

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  7. #79
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    I posted some of the same questions to the Facebook page several weeks ago with no official response. How did they determine the child's age? What size clothing/shoes was he wearing? Did he say ANYTHING at all? Has anyone looked into women found murdered or missing around that time - it's possible the mother's family had no idea she had a child. Have the Fronczaks thought back to when the child did begin to speak and did he say anything out of the ordinary? Even that young I would have asked him questions, even if I thought he was my child, I would have wanted to know who he had been with all that time. Several questions of that sort.

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  9. #80
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    This case just get's more and more complex,

    Although both circumstances are unique in their own right, it is sad for the families how both cases are connected, but yet so far apart.

    1.) We have the real Paul Fronczak, kidnapped from a hospital taken from his mother from an abductor posing as a nurse in 1964.

    2.) We have this abandoned child found in 1965 outside a store, who LE identified as baby Paul Fronczak. But LE didn't really use any scientific methods or assessments at that time, other than he "looked" like the baby picture, of the newborn of the real Paul Fronczak

    3.) What validity do you put in Sam Miller's claim that his Mother was the kidnapper of the real baby Paul Fronzak? Or does that validity now diminish, since as posters have said, the whole Sam Miller story has gone "poof?"

    4.) I think it is likely that the kidnapper of the real Paul Fronczak did not harm him, but wanted a child to raise as her own.

    5.) Maybe if we can solve either connected case, it could open up new evidence on either side:

    Abducted Birth Paul Fronczak


    1.) Who was the kidnapper?
    2.) What was her motive?
    3.) What were her methods? I read somewhere that there was evidence that a woman who resembled the kidnapper was seen at the hospital before? I can't remember if this was from Sam Miller, or some other source? (or both?)

    Unknown Abandoned Child: (False Paul Fronczak)

    1.) Who found this child? Did he talk? Ask for his mother? What was the connection that LE was so sure that this was "Paul Fronczak?" when DNA proved it was not?

    2.) What was the child wearing when found? What was the health of the child and his clothing? Were birth records and hospital records checked for who this child was? Exactly how did LE find him? What reports of other missing children existed around that time?

    3.) What's the real name of this abandoned child, and the circumstances surrounded his abandonment?

    Charley Project's updated account: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...czak_paul.html

    I could not find Paul's case to link to it on Doe Network.

    Satch
    Last edited by Satch; 04-04-2014 at 04:41 PM.

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  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    I think artist's "age-progressed" renderings of 72 hour newborns into adults is sorely lacking - simply because it's like trying to predict (like tarot card readings) who or what the person will/did become.
    Aric Austin, Carlina White, and Marx Barnes all looked very much like their AP, and all three went missing as infants.

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  13. #82
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    Too much missing information

    There does appear to be way too much information that hasn't been shared with the public or simply has not been searched for or discovered. I agree with other posters about that. Also, one might think that if DNA is the basis for identifying the real Paul that instructions would be publicized so that anyone who thinks they might be Paul could provide a DNA sample to one specific company only without having to go to the press. There could be an account at Ancestry.com, for example, simply named the Paul Fronczak account. They need to make this process as simple as possible.
    Last edited by Incubator; 04-05-2014 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Misspelling

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  15. #83
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    I found this article that explains that Sam Miller is not Paul Fronczak:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...paul-fronczak/

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  17. #84
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    What does the WS community think about this suspect, who unfortunately in this case, died twelve years ago?

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/son-su...ry?id=22913850

    Satch

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  19. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch View Post
    What does the WS community think about this suspect, who unfortunately in this case, died twelve years ago?

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/son-su...ry?id=22913850

    Satch
    I hope that some how they are following this lead!

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  21. #86
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    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...fter-50-years/
    On the 50th anniversary of an unsolved mystery that continues to draw attention and leads from around the world, Paul Fronczak is still hoping to uncover his true identity and find the baby that was stolen a half century ago from the woman he believed was his biological mother.

    “I feel super hopeful that we’re going to solve both these mysteries this year,” Fronczak told ABC News.
    After looking at the hospital’s baby picture of Fronczak, Harbaugh claimed that not only did he recognize the baby, but said he used to play with the child when he was a teenager living with his mother. Harbaugh said the baby had just showed up one day.
    Taylor, Harbaugh said, was a master of disguise and could pass for white, black, Puerto Rican or Hawaiian in her schemes to collect fraudulent welfare payments. Sometimes she even posed as a doctor or nurse, he said.

    “She had a room with nothing but wigs and nurse dresses and shoes,” Harbaugh said.

    In the 1970s, when Linda Taylor was put on trial for welfare fraud, she actually came under investigation for stealing the Fronczak baby. A local newspaper reported that one of her ex-husbands said that one day in the mid-1960s Taylor appeared with a newborn baby, even though she was not pregnant.

    Harbaugh said he didn’t say anything to the authorities about the sudden appearance of the baby because he was in trouble with the law back then
    Harbaugh said the baby disappeared as suddenly as it had appeared. One day he came home from school and the child was gone. Harbaugh said he’s “positive” it was taken by one of Taylor’s boyfriends to Tennessee.

    Taylor died twelve years ago, but the FBI told ABC News they are looking back at Taylor’s possible involvement with fresh eyes. Hyde, the FBI spokeswoman, admitted old cases like this one present unique challenges due to the passage of time, but they remain hopeful.
    ------------------------------------------------------------


    Tammie McCormick, 13, missing since 1986 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=128676

    Jaliek Rainwalker, 12, missing since 2007 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55811

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  23. #87
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    Back in December, the Facebook page said that they had two new leads, one about the bio Paul and the other about the adopted Paul. But nothing else has been written since. I wonder if the second had anything to do with the cousin who did before he could meet Paul. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253452...-paul-fronczak

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  25. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellemo View Post
    Back in December, the Facebook page said that they had two new leads, one about the bio Paul and the other about the adopted Paul. But nothing else has been written since. I wonder if the second had anything to do with the cousin who did before he could meet Paul. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253452...-paul-fronczak
    And the answer to my question is yes! http://www.8newsnow.com/story/278717...-true-identity.
    This article was just posted to to a Facebook page! it sounds like he has found a first cousin. I am a little freaked that it was posted not long after I posted here.

    It seems like it won't be long until he finds out who he is. It is telling that the cousin has no clue who this man is; sound like the family didn't know about the baby. If they did, he would likely know about a child that went missing. I am sure he would question any deaths of kids that year ("wonderif cousin Ann's baby really died; I don't recall a funeral" that sort of thing.). he is working with a genealogists . So let's hope he was born in a hospital. Birth records can narrow down the hunt.

    I suspect, as others have mentioned, that this may not be simple abandonment; that perhaps something happened to the mom while she was shopping or she was mentally ill. I hope he gets some answers and I hope ẃ find put what happened to bio Paul too.

    One thing that has bugged me form the start. Who first though that a child found in NJ might be the same child that was stolen from Chicago? what made them go there? was he simply the only unidentified white male in the entire country?
    Last edited by ellemo; 01-19-2015 at 03:27 AM. Reason: because geologist and geneologist are not the same thing

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  27. #89
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    Have their ( Paul and Stroller Baby) DNA and cousins found so far, been compared to the DNA in all the CRIMINAL DNA bases?
    Maybe the parents left them with people when they had to go to jail or something?
    Then the persons the babies were left with just left them someplace?
    Also the lady who was a baby found in the phone booth?
    Has the light complexion like these boys.
    The years are different but it is in the tri-state area.
    I think all of them should be compared to one another to see if any of them match.






    #789UMCO unidentified found The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
    Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery he left a note to "LIB"
    PLEASE HELP me find out who this unidentified person is so he can be buried rightfully near his family...


    I DO NOT TOLERATE HARASSMENT...

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  29. #90
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    Random thought on DNA comparisons from volunteers (like the Fronczaks). I dont remember where i heard it, but DNA that is NOT from a criminal(rapist, killer, etc) cannot be used/compared at will without the person specifically saying so. So THEIR DNA cant be compared to say open unsolved crimes to see if they are criminals if they volunteered it for a dna test for their supposed child. Ive been a long time lurker and constantly see people asking if UIs can be compared with the criminal database to find potential relatives and i think that isnt even allowed. Now im certainly not an expert but it would seem to be a violation of rights. Like say i have my DNA ran to scan for genetic things. The government *shouldnt be able to* compare it to criminals to see if we are related lol.
    I feel bad for both families, Paul 2.0's bio family and the parents of Paul 1.0. I hope they all find what they are looking for

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  31. #91
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    Paul Fronczak

    Quote Originally Posted by Satch View Post
    WOW! What a story! With regards to the URL:

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/220800...emains-mystery.

    I got a look at "Paul's" baby picture, and did think of the Billy Jones case. Billy was kidnapped from his yard in December of 1962, while his Mother who was preparing lunch went into a bedroom to check on her other son. The little toddler's sister said the man gave her a plastic flower and had taken Billy. It would be interesting to see where in New Jersey back in 1965 "Paul" was found in relation to where the Jones' lived in 1962. I think the family still lived in the same house in 1965. Also not too good at picture ID's, but I think "Paul" looks more like Billy Jones than Jamie Bordenkircher.

    Satch
    I have a few Questions:

    1. What about this monster woman from Tennessee that stole babies and children that could of took Paul and stole him to a couple who was childless? Didn't that happen around that time?

    2. I also believe that Paul could be Billy Jones. Paul in his features on his face, looks exactly like Billy.. hmmm

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  33. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomeroreo View Post
    I have a few Questions:

    1. What about this monster woman from Tennessee that stole babies and children that could of took Paul and stole him to a couple who was childless? Didn't that happen around that time?

    2. I also believe that Paul could be Billy Jones. Paul in his features on his face, looks exactly like Billy.. hmmm
    Children taken from their families or birth mothers coerced under false pretenses to give up their child where called blackmarket adoptions. There where many of them in the 50's-70's. Prior years where also documented just not as prevalent. Children where snatched right from their yards or snuck right out the front door at hospitals. It was basically human trafficking before it was called this.

    The ring leaders would pay someone snatch the baby or small child and then he/she would arrange for an adoptive family to pay a finders fee. Of course the birth certificate would be falsified by a doctor that was being paid off. Some of the ringleaders where actually doctors, social workers, and people who ran children's homes.

    If Paul was indeed a black market baby why would he have been found wondering in NJ though?

    Edit- Here's a list of the biggest blackmarket baby sellers of the 60's including in Tennesee
    http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ances...s/BMA/BMA2.htm
    Last edited by Sleuthster; 03-02-2015 at 11:03 PM.
    Cindi Lou


    Some people may consider me crazy, I say I'm just inspired.

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  35. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomeroreo View Post
    I have a few Questions:

    1. What about this monster woman from Tennessee that stole babies and children that could of took Paul and stole him to a couple who was childless? Didn't that happen around that time?

    2. I also believe that Paul could be Billy Jones. Paul in his features on his face, looks exactly like Billy.. hmmm
    Billy Jones was born March 5, 1959 so he would have been almost 5 1/2 years old when the boy abandoned in a stroller was found in New Jersey.

    There'd be an difference physically between a toddler in a stroller and a 5 1/2 year old. Plus most 5 1/2 year olds would be able to articulate at least something about themselves, their name, etc.

    Doesn't seem like the timeline quite works for Billy Jones to be a possibility.

    What happened to Erica Jayne Franolich?
    Missing from Middleburgh, NY, October 1986

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