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  1. #1
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    CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

    The other thread will be closed and this one will be used instead, is that correct??

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwalt00 View Post
    The other thread will be closed and this one will be used instead, is that correct??
    Yes, that is correct

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious
    This is a good case to look at... Eric is still incarcerated and he is 33 years old. He killed at 13 years old.
    Obviously this varies from state to state... but Eric got 9 years to LIFE.

    It's odd to think that in California he could only be in until age 25.
    In California they are still of the mind that a 12 or 13 year old is not really an adult. 18 is an adult. If 13 were an adult, they could be drafted, drive a car and not be required to go to school.

    I have to admit, I don't understand why a 13 year old is not considered brain developed enough to drive a car, but is considered brain developed enough to be tried as an adult.

    ETA: California's line is 14 years old for being tried as an adult for serious crimes.

    Interesting article, if anyone is interested:
    http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09...ood/29719.html
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  4. #4
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    The same question applies as to why you can charge a 15 year old girl for killing her baby...
    Yet ALSO charge the 18 year old guy who impregnated her because she is underage?
    If you can form the intent to KILL... certainly you can content to SEX?

    A lot of our laws are contradictory and confusing.
    This case will certainly bring them out.

    I think it should be largely a case by case basis.
    If a 13 year old babysitter shakes a baby in frustration (this has happened in my own family)...
    That is much different than torturing a toddler to death.

    Some kids who kill at 13, I'd have no problem with them being released at 25.
    Others... even their own parents don't want them out at 25. Scary.

    I'm not sure yet which kind of kid we are dealing with in this case... if he's guilty at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    In California they are still of the mind that a 12 or 13 year old is not really an adult. 18 is an adult. If 13 were an adult, they could be drafted, drive a car and not be required to go to school.

    I have to admit, I don't understand why a 13 year old is not considered brain developed enough to drive a car, but is considered brain developed enough to be tried as an adult.

    ETA: California's line is 14 years old for being tried as an adult for serious crimes.

    Interesting article, if anyone is interested:
    http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09...ood/29719.html

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by scorekeeper
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...rder-plot?lite

    10 years old????

    What is going on with our young children today?

    sorry if this has previously been posted.
    From the article:
    "The boy told investigators he and his friend had planned to kill a former fifth-grade girlfriend because she was "rude" and "always made fun" of him and friends, according to court documents."

    What in the world has happened when the retaliation for someone being rude and making fun of someone is to kill them? What is with the over-reaction to slights?
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    The same question applies as to why you can charge a 15 year old girl for killing her baby...
    Yet ALSO charge the 18 year old guy who impregnated her because she is underage?
    If you can form the intent to KILL... certainly you can content to SEX?

    A lot of our laws are contradictory and confusing.
    This case will certainly bring them out.

    I think it should be largely a case by case basis.
    If a 13 year old babysitter shakes a baby in frustration (this has happened in my own family)...
    That is much different than torturing a toddler to death.

    Some kids who kill at 13, I'd have no problem with them being released at 25.
    Others... even their own parents don't want them out at 25. Scary.

    I'm not sure yet which kind of kid we are dealing with in this case... if he's guilty at all.
    Don't get me started on the statutory rape thing.

    I agree our laws are contradictory and confusing (you can be drafted at 18, but you can't go get an alcoholic drink if you want one, or legally bet on whether you will make it back or not).

    I'd sure like it if the accused are either an adult or they aren't. Go ahead and make the penalties the same for juveniles or adults depending on the crime, on a case by case basis. If intent and understanding of consequences can be proven and they use X type of weapon in the commission of the crime, then sentence the 9, 10, 14, whatever year old as you would anyone else. But, as in California, if a child is 14 then they are magically capable of behaving as an adult if they commit a crime, but not magically capable of behaving as an adult enough to drive, or drink, or become emancipated, or work full time...how does that make sense?

    Sorry, general frustration with the lack of consistency and arbitrary rules.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  7. #7
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    A thought...

    The, by many, observed "blank" demeanor of 13-year old IF, IMO could have been caused by medication.
    Wheter the boy commited the murder or not, he was probably given tranquilizers, starting right after the murder, to calm him down/pacify him, either because he was seriously traumatized or/and because he was considered possibly dangerous if he indeed was the killer (until they had enough evidence to arrest him)
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

  8. #8
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    IF is 12 right? Did he just have his birthday or why is he now said to be 13?

    I want to come back to the question of the boat for a second, because I was the one who brought it up.

    I live in India. Someone who has the means to buy a boat is considered very well off. Not filthy rich, but certainly very well off. If that family experienced a tragedy it would be expected by the community that they sell their boat to get through the hardship, certainly donations would not be collected and offered, charity is reserved for poor and underprivileged people. I assumed it is similar in the US. Apparently I was wrong and in the US owning a boat is not considered a sign of being well off.

    And as others have said, BF's work has to do with boats, so maybe it isn't even theirs.

    However if the boat does belong to the family I would have expected them to sell it and other possible valuables (such as multiple cars, for example), and dig into savings to pay for the funeral, period of no or less income, and whatever legal costs they face. I would find it morally wrong not to do that but instead take money from the community, including people who have less and are facing their own hardship, whether the boy is the culprit or not. That's just how I feel. moo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elainera View Post
    IF is 12 right? Did he just have his birthday or why is he now said to be 13?

    I want to come back to the question of the boat for a second, because I was the one who brought it up.

    I live in India. Someone who has the means to buy a boat is considered very well off. Not filthy rich, but certainly very well off. If that family experienced a tragedy it would be expected by the community that they sell their boat to get through the hardship, certainly donations would not be collected and offered, charity is reserved for poor and underprivileged people. I assumed it is similar in the US. Apparently I was wrong and in the US owning a boat is not considered a sign of being well off.

    And as others have said, BF's work has to do with boats, so maybe it isn't even theirs.

    However if the boat does belong to the family I would have expected them to sell it and other possible valuables (such as multiple cars, for example), and dig into savings to pay for the funeral, period of no or less income, and whatever legal costs they face. I would find it morally wrong not to do that but instead take money from the community, including people who have less and are facing their own hardship, whether the boy is the culprit or not. That's just how I feel. moo
    I as well thought he was 12.
    I live in the US and I agree with you on the boat or other valuable non-essential items. I don't know when it changed but it does seem weird that collections have to be made when someones child unexpectedly dies. My family had insurance on us kids, not a million dollars but enough to bury us. jmo

    btw funeral homes do have monthly payment plans.
    Just know one thing, I am the majority.

    Adios amego's

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elainera View Post
    IF is 12 right? Did he just have his birthday or why is he now said to be 13?

    I want to come back to the question of the boat for a second, because I was the one who brought it up.

    I live in India. Someone who has the means to buy a boat is considered very well off. Not filthy rich, but certainly very well off. If that family experienced a tragedy it would be expected by the community that they sell their boat to get through the hardship, certainly donations would not be collected and offered, charity is reserved for poor and underprivileged people. I assumed it is similar in the US. Apparently I was wrong and in the US owning a boat is not considered a sign of being well off.

    And as others have said, BF's work has to do with boats, so maybe it isn't even theirs.

    However if the boat does belong to the family I would have expected them to sell it and other possible valuables (such as multiple cars, for example), and dig into savings to pay for the funeral, period of no or less income, and whatever legal costs they face. I would find it morally wrong not to do that but instead take money from the community, including people who have less and are facing their own hardship, whether the boy is the culprit or not. That's just how I feel. moo
    The family is nowhere near well-off. I would say that they probably live paycheck-to-paycheck. They are a family with eight children living in a three-bedroom home that they rent in one of the most expensive states in the country.

    If I am seeing the correct boat on Google Maps, it honestly doesn't even look like it has a motor. It looks like a rowboat, which you definitely don't have to be well-off to own.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    The family is nowhere near well-off. I would say that they probably live paycheck-to-paycheck. They are a family with eight children living in a three-bedroom home that they rent in one of the most expensive states in the country.

    If I am seeing the correct boat on Google Maps, it honestly doesn't even look like it has a motor. It looks like a rowboat, which you definitely don't have to be well-off to own.
    6 children, not 8? (well now 5 children )

    You may be right that they're not well off.

  12. #12
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    eileenhawkeye, you might be spot on with your impression, according to this article (bolded parts by me):



    Fowler family's troubles detailed in court papers

    Although the adults in the Fowler family have said little publicly, court records show it was a household that struggled financially and combined five children born to at least three different mothers.

    <modsnip>


    http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.d...NEWS/305170322
    Last edited by Salem; 05-17-2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Snipped for copyright and to remove the names of all minors.

  13. #13
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    Nothing in this article suggests he was well-off in any sense of the word. They can make money for their defense like Casey Anthony and sell pictures. Even an interview with ABC, CBS, NBC or cable news can bring a significant amount of money. I would think the donated money did go to her funeral as they are not cheap and I bet they got a really nice headstone to memorialize her. I would have.

    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwalt00 View Post
    The other thread will be closed and this one will be used instead, is that correct??
    You automatically go to the new thread and don't have to do a thing !
    Our MODS have mad magic skills !

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theforeigner View Post
    A thought...

    The, by many, observed "blank" demeanor of 12-year old IF, IMO could have been caused by medication.
    Wheter the boy commited the murder or not, he was probably given tranquilizers, starting right after the murder, to calm him down/pacify him, either because he was seriously traumatized or/and because he was considered possibly dangerous if he indeed was the killer (until they had enough evidence to arrest him)
    Sorry the above age of IF was an error, IF is 12-years old.
    Itīs too late to change it in my previous post, but I have changed in this above quote.
    Thanks for correcting me
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

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