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  1. #1
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    Common Ground

    I thought it might be interesting to start a thread where all of us interested in this case could discuss areas we are all in agreement with, this is not really a place to debate evidence, but rather to come to a consensus on some common ground. There are so many people here with a wealth of knowledge, it might be interesting for us to come together on a few things, and discuss them.

    So basically the idea is to get a list of things we all agree on, then use that list to take a bit of a fresh look at things without pinning those items on a specific suspect, or attach a theory to them.
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  2. #2
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    Interesting idea for a thread. I'll have to think about it, but the first things that spring to mind are Vicki Hutchinson, and Dale Griffis/the Satanism stuff. I doubt many people on either side regard Hutchinson or Griffis as credible witnesses to anything, and apart from a small minority of rather odd conspiracy theorists, I don't know any non who still believes this was a Satanic ritual murder.

  3. #3
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    Yep, I agree with that for sure, shall we just like posts we agree with, then if something gets posted someone doesn't agree with pipe up? Anyway totally agree with the so called Satanic Ritual BS .. should never have been brought in.
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  4. #4
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    Those were the times they lived in I suppose, Satanic Panic was in full flow in the early 90s.

    shall we just like posts we agree with, then if something gets posted someone doesn't agree with pipe up?
    Good idea.

    Another one I just thought of - any supporter knowledgeable enough to be debating the wm3 here would surely know enough to see that Damien wasn't just targeted for black t shirts and heavy metal music. His problems ran alot deeper than that.

  5. #5
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    LOL same here with the Satanic Panic, the priest at the church I went to actually tried to recruit some members of our youth group to 'look into' student goings on at school to see if there were any satanists (OMG) he also thought AC/DC was a sign .. that was the '80s here, so it wasn't just the USA.

    I have a question ..

    Are all the supporters in agreement that the boys were murdered in the woods, or is there debate about that?
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  6. #6
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    Are all the supporters in agreement that the boys were murdered in the woods, or is there debate about that?
    There is considerable debate about that, and a further debate about where in the woods.

  7. #7
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    I like the idea of trying to see what exactly is agreed upon by all. I'll have to give it some thought because right now the only things I can think of are the most basic of information such as the 3 boys were murdered, the 3 boys were tied up, the 3 boys were found in the ditch.

    I would be curious in knowing what, if anything, is agreed upon as far as the WM3's alibi witnesses. For example, for those that believe in guilt, do they believe the statements concerning cutting the grass but nothing after that? Is there a point in time that everyone is in agreement as to what the invididuals were doing that day and at what point in time do opinions start to differ.

  8. #8
    I hope that we all agree that the most important thing is to assure that justice is served. Too often, it seems to me that that concept gets lost in the fray. If we agree that justice is the most important thing, could someone please explain how a new trial, with all evidence being presented, wouldn't further that goal? It's probably a moot point now, but I've never heard a reasonable argument for not doing so.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
    I don't know any non who still believes this was a Satanic ritual murder.
    I don't believe the prosecution ever suggested that the murders were commuted in the course of any ritual, as I've yet to find anyone able to actually quote the prosecution doing as much and have searched the transcripts myself to no avail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cappuccino View Post
    Another one I just thought of - any supporter knowledgeable enough to be debating the wm3 here would surely know enough to see that Damien wasn't just targeted for black t shirts and heavy metal music. His problems ran alot deeper than that.
    I've seen a lot of attempts to minimize Echols psychological problems in my time here. One [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9066054&postcount=55"]even went so suggest[/ame] Echols was simply going through "a little purple hair rebellion" and go on to argue as if anyone who insists the three are guilty simply "dont like or approve of that type of clothing, hairstyle, attitude etc.", and that got five thanks while nobody took issue with the argument other than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by reedus23 View Post
    For example, for those that believe in guilt, do they believe the statements concerning cutting the grass but nothing after that?
    Which statements exactly? The 5/9 report with Baldwin, Echols, and Teer saying that after cutting the grass they were picked up by Echols' father at laundromat at 6? Or the 5/10 report with Echols saying it was his mother who him picked Teer and him up at the laundromat, but not Baldwin, and Teer was driven home in time for Echols to to get to the Sanders by around 3. Or the 9/10 report with Teer putting Kennith Watkins at the grass cutting along with her, Baldwin, Echols, and her and Echols not making it to the laundromat until "about dark or just before it got dark" (around 7:45)? Or the 6/4 interview with Gail and Terry Grinnell, Baldwin's parents, in which they say Baldwin mowed his uncle's lawn from around 4:30 to 6 or 6:30, and was accompanied by Echols and Watkins but not Teer? Or perhaps the 6/14 statement from Hubert Bartoush, Baldwin's uncle, which also has Baldwin alone mowing the lawn from 4:30 to 6:30, with no mention of Echols, Teer, or Watkins? Surely you aren't referring to the 9/16 interview with Watkins where he said the grass cutting didn't take place until the weekend after the murders, but I'm including it for the sake of completeness.
    The Master said, "In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." Confucius, The Doctrine of the Mean, James Legge translation

    Failure is an opportunity. If you blame someone else, there is no end to the blame. Therefore the Master fulfills her own obligations and corrects her own mistakes. She does what she needs to do and demands nothing of others. Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation

  10. #10
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    Hi Kyleb .. this is really just a place to list things we all agree on .. debates can be taken off this thread onto relevant ones .. really determined that we don't get into the nitty gritty here .. This is a thread to find common ground ..
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.


  11. #11
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    Do we all agree that LE should have recorded all witness interviews from the beginning, ESPECIALLY the first one with Jessie?
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  12. #12
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    I don't agree, as when they first started interviewing Misskelley they had no reason to believe he knew anything about the murders, at least no more than anyone else Echols associated with other than William Wilford Jones who they did get on tape. Granted, it would be nice to have recordings, video preferably, of Misskelley from the first moment police spoke to them, and all the hundreds of other people spoke to for that matter. If I could wish into existence one recording it wouldn't be of Misskelley though, but rather Echols' 5/10 interview personally. One can't rightly expect a police department to recorded everything whether they know if it will prove useful or not though, particularly in a rather impoverished town, and back in the days of cassettes at that.

    As for my bit about the grass cutting, I was just making a point about how vague Reedus' question was. I agree that discussion of the alibi claims deserves it's own thread, at least if anyone thinks they can manage to come up with a reasonably coherent alibi out of the various witnesses for the convicted.
    The Master said, "In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." Confucius, The Doctrine of the Mean, James Legge translation

    Failure is an opportunity. If you blame someone else, there is no end to the blame. Therefore the Master fulfills her own obligations and corrects her own mistakes. She does what she needs to do and demands nothing of others. Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs G Norris View Post
    Do we all agree that LE should have recorded all witness interviews from the beginning, ESPECIALLY the first one with Jessie?
    It would have certainly been beneficial. I would like to see a National law requiring video taping of all interrogations - from beginning to end.

  14. #14
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    I'd prefer our government respect the Fourth Amendment far more than they currently do, including only recording any conversations either with expressed consent of those to be recorded or after demonstrating probable cause to a grand jury to do otherwise.
    The Master said, "In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." Confucius, The Doctrine of the Mean, James Legge translation

    Failure is an opportunity. If you blame someone else, there is no end to the blame. Therefore the Master fulfills her own obligations and corrects her own mistakes. She does what she needs to do and demands nothing of others. Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
    I'd prefer our government respect the Fourth Amendment far more than they currently do, including only recording any conversations either with expressed consent of those to be recorded or after demonstrating probable cause to a grand jury to do otherwise.
    Although I agree with your basic premise, the interrogation of a suspect, when recorded, is recorded with full disclosure to the person being recorded. IMO, it's not the same thing as the government (or anyone) secretly recording my phone conversations or reading my emails. IIRC, that is illegal - and should be!

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