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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    343

    you light up my life

    i'd like to open a thread to discuss the flashlight. i've seen a lot of discussion about whether the ramseys owned one, whether the one found on the table was the same one, was it the murder weapon, etc...

    i think it's time we attempted to clear all this up. to start this off, i'd like to list off the "facts" pertaining to this issue. if i've incorrectly stated something, please chime in. i'll try to edit this first post accordingly, so as to avoid starting this thread off with a bad seed...

    facts about the flashlight...
    1-a large flashlight was found in the ramsey's kitchen on the morning of 12/26/96.
    2-this flashlight was tested for prints, but none were found on the outside, or on the batteries on the inside.
    3-the ramseys owned a similar flashlight which they kept in a kitchen drawer.
    4-JAR gave this to JR as a gift, and he said it was rarely, if ever used, and the one found in the kitchen appeared dirtier and older than his.
    5-LE response to #4 was that after testing was done on the flashlight, it altered the appearance, so it may have been JR's flashlight, but JR does not think this is the case.

    now for the questions that arise with regards to this issue. did the ramseys ever produce JR's flashlight to show that this flashlight was indeed, not theirs? this seems like the easiest way to immediately do away with this issue, but i have not read anything concrete with regards to this. if this mysterious flashlight was theirs, why would they wipe off the prints? with all the people roaming through the house that morning, including many cops, did anyone leave a flashlight behind? cops often wear gloves, so might this explain the lack of prints? what, aside from the lack of prints, did forensics show about this flashlight? was it dented from being used as a murder weapon? was it strong enough that if it was the murder weapon, it would not be dented?

    ok everyone...have at it! i'd like to mostly hear any sources that offer solid answers to these questions, but as always, speculation is welcome!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    i'd like to open a thread to discuss the flashlight. i've seen a lot of discussion about whether the ramseys owned one, whether the one found on the table was the same one, was it the murder weapon, etc...

    i think it's time we attempted to clear all this up. to start this off, i'd like to list off the "facts" pertaining to this issue. if i've incorrectly stated something, please chime in. i'll try to edit this first post accordingly, so as to avoid starting this thread off with a bad seed...

    facts about the flashlight...
    1-a large flashlight was found in the ramsey's kitchen on the morning of 12/26/96.
    2-this flashlight was tested for prints, but none were found on the outside, or on the batteries on the inside.
    3-the ramseys owned a similar flashlight which they kept in a kitchen drawer.
    4-JAR gave this to JR as a gift, and he said it was rarely, if ever used, and the one found in the kitchen appeared dirtier and older than his.
    5-LE response to #4 was that after testing was done on the flashlight, it altered the appearance, so it may have been JR's flashlight, but JR does not think this is the case.

    now for the questions that arise with regards to this issue. did the ramseys ever produce JR's flashlight to show that this flashlight was indeed, not theirs? this seems like the easiest way to immediately do away with this issue, but i have not read anything concrete with regards to this. if this mysterious flashlight was theirs, why would they wipe off the prints? with all the people roaming through the house that morning, including many cops, did anyone leave a flashlight behind? cops often wear gloves, so might this explain the lack of prints? what, aside from the lack of prints, did forensics show about this flashlight? was it dented from being used as a murder weapon? was it strong enough that if it was the murder weapon, it would not be dented?

    ok everyone...have at it! i'd like to mostly hear any sources that offer solid answers to these questions, but as always, speculation is welcome!


    Voice of Reason,

    The flashlight found on the kitchen counter almost has to belong to the Ramseys. The Ramseys owned a flashlight identical to it and it was missing from the drawer in the kitchen where it was normally kept. The problem was the color. The Ramsey's flashlight was shiney black, and the one being shown to them in a crime scene photo was grayish, or as John Ramsey decribed it, "dirty".

    The reason for the discoloration was the chemicals that forensics had used to try to lift a fingerprint from the casing. The Ramseys said they owned a flashlight identical to the one in the photo, except for the grayish color. The manufacturer of the flashlight doesn't make it in gray. So it was the Ramsey's black flashlight that had been discolored due to forensic testing.

    Here's some miscellaneous info on the flashlight (I happen to own one):

    It was a black 3-cell Mag-Lite brand; it measured 12 1/4 inches in length and weighed 2 pounds; its 1 1/2 inch diameter casing was thick cast aluminum; it had a plastic lense; the final 2 1/4 inches of the casing (at the lense end) bulged out to 2 1/8 inches in diameter; it used D cells.

    Voice of Reason, the five factual items you list in your threadstarter look accurate to me.

    BlueCrab

  3. #3
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
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    1,832
    Maybe the perp's was old, he spotted the newer one and traded

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    343

    how do you know?

    bluecrab-

    i knew that someone here had mentioned that the ramseys never produced their flashlight which they definitely owned. i guess that someone was you! but what i'm more curious about, is where is that info from...that they never produced it? is that in a book? i can't find it anywhere. i've read the many depositions, all of which discuss the "mysterious" flashlight and the ramsey flashlight, but the dots are never connected. are you sure the ramseys did not turn over their light?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
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    Patsy never identified the blanket as being Jonbenet's , in fact she said Jonbenet's was white and the one in the picture appeared pink. The cops assured her the color tint was a bit "off" in the photos.
    Why on earth would the crimescene photo of the maglight be taken after it was chemically "adjusted" for the lifting off of prints?
    John did not identify it as his.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    Patsy never identified the blanket as being Jonbenet's , in fact she said Jonbenet's was white and the one in the picture appeared pink. The cops assured her the color tint was a bit "off" in the photos.
    Why on earth would the crimescene photo of the maglight be taken after it was chemically "adjusted" for the lifting off of prints?
    John did not identify it as his.


    sissi and Voice of Reason,

    There were several photos of the Mag-Lite. During the 1997 interviews the Ramseys were shown the photos of the flashlight while it was still sitting on the kitchen counter, before it was processed by the crime lab. It was on a video.

    The flashlight was missing from the drawer in the kitchen.

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, I most recently remember it being, you know, right in this drawer."

    TRIP DEMUTH: "The drawer that is open?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "That's open there. Yeah."

    TRIP DEMUTH: "And now you don't see a flashlight in there, right?"

    PATSY RAMSEY: "Correct."


    The Mag-Lite on the kitchen counter was taken in as evidence. Therefore, the Ramseys couldn't produce it. Someone had taken the light from the kitchen drawer, left the drawer sitting open, and later placed it on the kitchen counter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    36
    I'ts possible that the person who left the flashlight there wanted just the batteries--to put in some other device--and then wiped them off and replaced them. Do stun guns use D batteries?

    It also is a dot suspicious that the Rs would keep batteries in a flashlight they never used, but lots of people do that--and of course the Rs doubtless would spin some vague, half-baked rationale for it.

    Clouded memories, double talk, and dismissive generalities serve as a rubber blanket on a bed of lies.