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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    7,024

    State can't force voters to prove citizenship

    Supreme Court strikes down Arizona law requiring proof of citizenship to vote

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...p-to-vote?lite

    The Supreme Court on Monday struck down an Arizona law that requires people to submit proof of citizenship when they register to vote.

    The vote was 7-2, with Justice Antonin Scalia writing for the court. Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, two members of the court’s conservative wing, dissented.

    More at link.....


    "The further we (as the human race) grow away from the natural world, the quieter the natural world becomes and the more pathological we become as a culture."........Bernie Krause

    The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy—a policy worthy of imitation......which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.......George Washington

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    7,247
    This is the second time recently that Scalia has (pleasantly!) surprised me!
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Georgia -- Redneck Country
    Posts
    7,175
    Since apparently one doesn't even have to be a citizen to vote in this country anymore maybe we should just start holding our elections online.

    Maybe set up a website poll so people from all over the world could decide on the laws that will apply to the citizens of AZ.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    939
    just curious...how do you prove citizenship? birth certificate? ss card? I really don't know.

    a little off topic, but a few months ago my uncle had a hard time proving he was ever born. even though he had served in the army in Vietnam, had a ss card and all, but he had to go to a state rep to get them to expedite his drivers license. apparently if you aren't born in a hospital, they throw the records away or some such carp LOL

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,187
    Can people who are here illegally vote or does this mean immigrants who aren't citizens yet? I had trouble getting a teen an ID and have to prove residence just to get kids i nto new school districts but just anyone can vote.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,581
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Since apparently one doesn't even have to be a citizen to vote in this country anymore maybe we should just start holding our elections online.

    Maybe set up a website poll so people from all over the world could decide on the laws that will apply to the citizens of AZ.

    Seriously. So, to recap: I have to prove I am a U.S. citizen to get a job...by presenting my Social Security card and my drivers license...a license which...by the way....has a caduceus on it...a symbol that tells anyone who sees it that I am disabled*...thus I am labeled as someone to be flagged and ignored for further interviews...BUT...a person does not even have to prove they are a U.S. citizen in order to vote in our elections. SMH



    *Emblazoned there so I can "prove" that my accessibility tag is indeed mine and I am not using someone else's.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,992
    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    Can people who are here illegally vote or does this mean immigrants who aren't citizens yet? I had trouble getting a teen an ID and have to prove residence just to get kids i nto new school districts but just anyone can vote.
    States can and do ask voters to bring some form of proof of address. For most people that's a drivers license and/or a copy of a utility bill, etc. They have to make sure you're voting in the right city, district or precinct. Many times elections have local tax levies and such, so it only seems fair you should have to prove you live in the community to vote on their tax levy.

    I'm not sure, but I think the law the SCOTUS ruled on today was similar to laws many states were passing where you would have to begin showing your birth certificate to get your drivers license and other forms of ID renewed. Then, if you couldn't produce one, you not only couldn't drive, you couldn't vote either.



    It's always a good idea to check and make sure you have a registered copy of your birth certificate for such a reason. For most states, it can cost quite a bit in fees to get a new copy and the wait can be a month or longer.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Left Coast USA
    Posts
    8,846
    The article posted by Reader says very clearly:

    "Citizenship is a requirement to vote in any federal election, and the federal registration form requires people to state, under penalty of perjury, that they are American citizens. States can use their own forms, but they must be equivalent to the federal form.

    The Arizona law, known as Proposition 200 and adopted by Arizona voters in 2004, went further than the federal form by requiring applicants to provide proof of citizenship. Arizona has used the law to reject 30,000 voter applications, according to the Brennan Center for Justice.

    Challengers to the law argued that it put an extra burden on naturalized citizens. Using a naturalization document as proof would require an applicant to register in person, as opposed to through the mail, because federal law prohibits copying the document."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    8,281
    Sad
    imoo

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,187
    To get a teen's ID I had to take birth certificate, ss card, shot record, medicaid card (3 forms of ID), several bills as proof of address in my name. They wouldn't accept it if it was in my husband's name either. Plus, he had to have lived with me at least a month and I had to swear and sign that it was true. They didn't even ask if he wanted to register to vote iirc.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    10,822
    So glad that those willing to act in voter fraud will be stopped in their tracks when they read the fine print "under penalty of perjury!" LOL. Donald Duck, Michael Jackson, etc. will be scared
    Love you, Littlest Little!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    10,822
    Literally just finished talking to a Deputy Fire Marshal who came into our office to have our computer forensics agent do a computer search for evidence in a probable arson/insurance fraud case. We were going over the documents he had as part of the affidavit for the search warrant. Yep, suspect has signed several insurance documents as "under penalty of perjury" & similar legal jargon. The fire department already has enough on this guy to get him for insurance fraud, they're just trying to get more evidence on the arson charges (motive, although not required, and possible conspirators).

    Just had to share the timing of it all.


    IMO, there should be some way to better prove your citizenship for voting purposes than just signing a document saying you're a good law-abiding citizen and you wouldn't even think of voting twice or for another person, etc.
    Love you, Littlest Little!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,992
    IIRC, I had to provide a copy of my birth certificate to get my Social Security card (from the days when kids didn't get them until they were ready to get a summer job).

    When I turned 16, I had to provide a copy of my BC to get my driver's license. Every state I lived in after that required me to show my BC and old driver's license to get a new one in their state.

    When I applied for a passport, I had to provide a copy of my bc.

    When I registered to vote in this state, I had to provide my driver's license and SSN, both of which had been verified with copies of my birth certificate.

    So, why would a state think they should make me prove, again and again, that I am a US citizen, when I've already done so numerous times in obtaining my SS card and DL? They already have plenty of documentation in government computer files that verify my US citizenship.

    You have to provide your BC to get your SSN, you have to provide it to get your driver's license or other state photo id. Both of those are used as proof of citizenship when you register to vote. Case closed.

    I've worked for years at my local Board of Elections, as a polling judge on Election Day. For anyone who is paranoid about voter fraud, I would suggest signing up to get the training and work at a polling place. It will be a good learning experience and will dispel a lot of those silly myths that float around on the internet.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    10,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    IIRC, I had to provide a copy of my birth certificate to get my Social Security card (from the days when kids didn't get them until they were ready to get a summer job).

    When I turned 16, I had to provide a copy of my BC to get my driver's license. Every state I lived in after that required me to show my BC and old driver's license to get a new one in their state.

    When I applied for a passport, I had to provide a copy of my bc.

    When I registered to vote in this state, I had to provide my driver's license and SSN, both of which had been verified with copies of my birth certificate.

    So, why would a state think they should make me prove, again and again, that I am a US citizen, when I've already done so numerous times in obtaining my SS card and DL? They already have plenty of documentation in government computer files that verify my US citizenship.

    You have to provide your BC to get your SSN, you have to provide it to get your driver's license or other state photo id. Both of those are used as proof of citizenship when you register to vote. Case closed.

    I've worked for years at my local Board of Elections, as a polling judge on Election Day. For anyone who is paranoid about voter fraud, I would suggest signing up to get the training and work at a polling place. It will be a good learning experience and will dispel a lot of those silly myths that float around on the internet.
    Counterfeit Social Security Cards? I can hook ya up with those who make them.

    Counterfeit Drivers License cards? Those too.


    I don't know what the answer is (I really don't), but we sure seem pretty lax about making it too easy for those who want to vote fraudulently. For some local elections, a few votes can make a difference.

    What are the silly myths floating around the internet?
    Love you, Littlest Little!

  15. #15
    People who are not here legally can vote? Seriously? I can't believe this was even an issue.

    The world's gone mad.

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