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  1. #1
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    George Zimmerman Real Time Trial Thread *No Discussion* 7/3/13

    Dear Webseuths Members,

    We know many of you want to discuss the facts of the case and as long as the discussion is civil you may discuss the case in general in this link below:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213157"]George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    This thread is for REAL TIME COURTROOM updates.

    If those of you watching could please update this thread as much as possible it will be greatly appreciated by those unable to watch the trial while at work.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    Tricia
    Websleuths is TEMPORARILY accepting donations.

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    to visit our GoFundMe page

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  2. #2
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    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 22m
    Judge shuts down O'Mara as he argues that #trayvonmartin history should be fair game if she allows #zimmerman records.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 28m
    O'Mara is up first for the defense.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 29m
    Attorneys are about to argue over admissibility of #Zimmerman school and other records. #trayvonmartin

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 30m
    We are back in session.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 3h
    School records at issue in #Zimmerman murder trial (from @AP) #trayvonmartin http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268748/con...tguid=uMahkian

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 14h
    Prosecutors attack #Zimmerman story several ways (from @AP) #trayvonmartin http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268748/con...tguid=L1u7XRKp

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 15h
    Updated: Prosecutors want to use #Zimmerman school records (from @AP) #trayvonmartin http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268748/con...tguid=L1u7XRKp

  3. #3
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    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 2m
    Mantei says records go to #Zimmerman state of mind that he wanted to be a police officer and still does accord to hmwk assignments

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 2m
    Mantei is loading up on case law to back up his arguments. #zimmerman

    Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 7m
    Mantei citing caselaw, using powerpoint presentation. Notes state has burden to disprove #GeorgeZimmerman self-defense claim. #TrayvonMartin
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Tony Pipitone Tony Pipitone ‏@TonyPipitone 7m
    State notes anything that "tends to prove or disprove a material fact" should come in, i.e. wannabe cop learned self-defense law, profiling.
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche 8m
    Mantei: The jury should know that #GeorgeZimmerman was taking classes on criminal litigation and investigation.
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 7m
    Mantei: "This is simply a fact the jury ought to know."

    Natalie Tolomeo Natalie Tolomeo ‏@NatalieTolomeo 14m
    Prosecutor Richard Mantei arguing now that GZ's frustrations are "part of what's going on here" #ZimmermanTrial #Zimmerman #TrayvonMartin
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 14m
    Prosecutor Mantei is now up to respond.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 17m
    O'Mara says that any relevance if the records outweighs prejudice to #zimmerman

  4. #4
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The state says #Zimmermanon9 's interest in law enforcement could show his state of mind that night.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The state says there's nothing wrong with #Zimmermanon9 's desire to be an officer but it's relevant and defense has not shown prejudice.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 5m
    The state says #Zimmermanon9 still wants to be an officer and studied "how to be a good witness.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 7m
    The state says #Zimmermanon9 's state of mind, motive and whether he was observing or profiling are relevant.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 10m
    The state calls #Zimmermanon9 's frustration with intruders getting away was the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 11m
    The state says it's relevant to a material fact not a collateral issue and it has a number of reasons to present it. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 14m
    The state says #Zimmermanon9 's background helps explain why he did what he did.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
    The state says #Zimmermanon9 used police jargon.. Like "I unholstered my firearm".

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 17m
    The state says it has more than one theory and #Zimmermanon9 's records his show his ambition and frustration as a wannabe cop.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 21m
    The defense says the state is going down a dangerous path bringing up #Zimmermanon9 's past. He believes it opens the door to Martin's past.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 24m
    Rest this week. We don't know when she will be called to testify about the screams for help on the 911 recording. 2/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 26m
    Sybrina Fulton is wearing glasses again today and has her hair in an "up hairdo" again today. The state is expected to 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 28m
    The defense says #Zimmermanon9 's police ride along two years ago is not relevant and neither is his past police application in Virginia.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 30m
    The judge says that's not a "tit for tat" legal issue. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 31m
    The defense says if she allows #Zimmermanon9 's school records in.. She should allow Martin's records of fighting in. The judge interrupted.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 33m
    Court is in. The defense says the state's assertion that #Zimmermanon9 took a class about stand your ground is not true.. Not in the book.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 39m
    WATCH LIVE: Attorneys argue at 8:30am on admissibility of #Zimmerman's criminal justice school records: http://at.wftv.com/15QGYxF via @WFTV

  5. #5
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The defense says the state is trying to use the judge to pull a fast one. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 55s
    The defense says the state is trying to slip in the records under the pretense that it's not trying to prove "bad acts". #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The defense asked for more time to respond and the judge cut him off. #Zimmermanon9

    Jeff Weiner Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 3m
    O'Mara: State will use #GeorgeZimmerman's class work as bad acts, didn't give proper notice. #TrayvonMartin #ZimmermanTrial
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    O'Mara argues that state must prove relevance before trying to use records to paint #zimmerman as wannabe cop

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    The defense says the state missed a deadline to argue this evidence as prior bad acts and but is trying to use it that way. #Zimmermanon9

    Mantei rebutted, saying the defense could not site any law to back up that this info is irrelevant because there is not any.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 22s
    The judge will allow the testimony because she's decided it goes to a material issue in the state's case. #Zimmermanon9

  6. #6
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    In a 15 min. recess before next state witness...

  7. #7
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 5m
    The defense is trying to decide how mention of "bad credit" on #Zimmermanon9 's police application should be handled or redacted.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    Judge allows school records in #Zimmerman trial (from @AP) #trayvonmartin http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268748/con...tguid=uMahkian

    [Registar is excused with no defense questions]

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 52s
    Melvin testifies #zimmerman was supposed to graduate in spring 2012. No cross. She is off the stand.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 20s
    The registrar is validating #Zimmermanon9 's college records.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The state has called Sonja Bowles-Melvin who is the registrar at Seminole State College. #Zimmermanon9

    WFTV Eyewitness News WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 3m
    UPDATE: Judge allows evidence of #Zimmerman's criminal justice course, past: http://at.wftv.com/11g1mu5 #Zimmermanon9
    Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    The jury is coming in. #Zimmermanon9


    "The further we (as the human race) grow away from the natural world, the quieter the natural world becomes and the more pathological we become as a culture."........Bernie Krause

    The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy—a policy worthy of imitation......which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.......George Washington

  8. #8
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    Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche 1m
    Don West up for cross. He's pointing out that Kearns doesn't have knowledge of #GeorgeZimmerman 's application.
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 42s
    Kearns says official applications are destroyed after 3 yrs. but retains some info. [only a computer printout with basic info [DOB, SSN, gender, race, credit history/was the reason GZ was not considered for position/as LE he would be subject to a criminal/a bad risk/when credit improved he could reapply]

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 6m
    The defense asked Prince William county officer Scott Kearns who #Zimmermanon9 used as a reference but the records have been destroyed .

    West up for defense cross....

    Mantei asks for state, was there anything sinister in the fact that GZ was not hired? No

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower now
    Testifies that #zimmerman applied to Virginia police agency in July 2009

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    Next is state witness Scott Kearns, operations officer with Va. Prince Williams Co. Police.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The state's next witness is the former personnel officer for the Virginia police department where #Zimmermanon9 applied and was rejected.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    The registrar said #Zimmermanon9's course study involved criminal justice field. The defense asked no questions.

  9. #9
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    6:30 AM PDT
    9:30 AM EDT

    There was a hearing, which I totally missed but Reader captured it above.

    Trial is now starting.

    Bringing Jury in.

    State New Witness:

    Sonja Boles-Mellvin: Registrar at Seminole State College

    Showing her a grade change form for George's, when he applied for graduation on October 17, 2011 for anticipated graduation of June 2011'

    Next Witness:

    Lt. Scott Kearns: Currently, Operations Manager at Prince William County Police in Virginia. In 2009 was with Personnel Unit. Showing him a copy of a letter having to do with an application by George to join the department.

    West in cross. He is going over the document that was filed which is not the original application but a document that is produced to document the document that gets thrown away after awhile.
    Pointing out that George apparently had a credit problem which is the reason he was turned down by them to be a police officer. West suggesting to the witness that if George were to sort out his credit woes he could reapply.

  10. #10
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    Carter was also working FT at public defender's office and was adjunct professor since 11/09 as a side job, liked teaching and helped reinforce law he needed for his job as a defense lawyer...understanding the law and how it is applied is so important in crime. All facts are important but some have more weight. West asks about 'reasonable person' standard.
    Carter later went into JAG corps, dealt with law, you are placed where they need you and where you want to be..asked is the army his career, he'd rather not comment on that..(laughter)...he did not write the book used for the class..not specifically about Florida law, not specifically SYG law.

    West for defense, has Carter ID GZ and he says Hi, George...

    Carter tells Mantei self defense is not something you get through fast, he covered it constantly, class very much engaged in discussion of SD, he remembers discussing it often..

    Did he cover self defense law? yes

    Mantei on direct....Carter says he remembers GZ because he was one of the better students in the class.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower now
    Says he gave #zimmerman an A in the course.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 33s
    Next up is army officer Alexis Carter (sp?). He previously taught course at Seminloe State college on criminal litigation.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 3m
    Kearns testifies that #zimmerman credit issues was reason his application wasn't considered any further. He is off the stand.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    The witness said #Zimmermanon9 could have reapplied once he got older and established credit but there is mo evidence that he did.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The defense says #Zimmermanon9 's credit problems could have made him vulnerable to criminals and that's why he was turned down.


  11. #11
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    Next Witness:

    Alexis Francisco Carter: A military lawyer in the Army.
    Taught "Criminal Litigation" at Seminole State College. Gave George an 'A' in the course.

    Putting into evidence a chapter from a book used for the course. The chapter deals with the 'Stand your ground' law.
    He remembers George as one of the better students in the class.

    West in cross. Introduces witness to Mr O'Mara and reintroduces him to George. Going over Carter's resume regarding the teaching of the one course. HIs first job after law school was as a public defender. As a side he became an adjunct professor and taught this course. Now he works just as a prosecutor, a military prosecutor.
    The book was a standard book used in the course, it was not specifically focused on Florida law.
    He supplemented the book with other material that did focus on Florida laws.

    West tells Carter he is not asking trick questions, BUT, he is asking about the Castle Doctrine, which evolved in Florida to the 'stand your ground', which allowed someone to defend themselves outside their home if they were subject to a deadly attack, to defend themselves.

    Objection. Sidebar.

  12. #12
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    West points out that since Carter passed his exams and entered the bar in Fl. he was very familiar with Fl. law...he agrees that SYG is codified law in Fl., West asks about castle law, if attacked in home have no duty to retreat. SYG allows someone to defend themselves outside their home with no duty to retreat, before you had to retreat if you could...Carter agrees...and did teach this difference...he would put up examples on camera and ask class what is happening in this situation?

    Objection...sidebar..West continues..and tries to discuss the change in law with Carter...objection/judge says questions should be on what Carter taught in his class..whether of not a reasonable person would have a fear for their life..

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 4m
    Note: All jurors made note of Carter testifying that he covered self defense often in the class #zimmerman took.

    David Ovalle David Ovalle ‏@DavidOvalle305 6m
    Professor's testimony important for state bc #GeorgeZimmerman claimed in Hannity interview he knew nothing of #StandYourGround law
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 6m
    Carter says the class COVERED self defense standards and something he "constantly iterated".

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 9m
    Class in question was taken in 2009. Carter says #zimmerman was one if the better students in class.

  13. #13
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    West is trying to Carter to apply his answers to GZ's case, judge tells him to rephrase questions.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    Carter: "It's fluid. The law as it applies isn't static."

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 3m
    Judge interjects and tells jury she will instruct in the legal standard they will judge #zimmerman by. #TrayvinMartin

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 4m
    Carter also says he taught class that the same presumption for reasonable fear of not present in Stand Your Ground.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 6m
    Carter testifies that former "castle doctrine" self defense allowed person to defend self in their home.

    Tony Pipitone Tony Pipitone ‏@TonyPipitone 12m
    Juror 5 is such a note-taking maniac, she's scribbling furiously now during bench conference she cannot hear.
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 12m
    Sidebar is over.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 15m
    Attys are called to sidebar.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 19m
    Carter says discussions on Fla. law were on the classroom, but not in the textbook he taught from.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 20m
    Carter says book he taught from in the class didn't focus exclusively on Fla. law.

    Kyle Hightower Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 22m
    Carter tells West under cross examination that he works exclusively as an army prosecutor right now. #zimmerman

  14. #14
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    Now back, West continues about the Castle Doctrine which evolved into Stand Your Ground.

    West is describing the statutes. Trying to get witness to clarify that part of self defense is, under any circumstance, is that you ' have to act under the fear of great bodily harm'.
    Objection, West needs to ask about what Carter taught in the class, not what or how West defines it.
    So Carter explains, on issue of reasonable fear, 'the totality of the circumstances' are what is important.
    West reinterprets that. West says: The issue is what the person thinks is going to happen, not what does happen.
    Objection. Judge says for second time she will explain to jurors about the law.
    Carter says that can injuries support the idea of a reasonable fear of death. And, they go back and forth. West says if I were screaming for help and I didn't stop over 20 or 30 seconds, that I could conclude that whoever was pummeling me wasn't going to stop.
    Discussing the theory of an 'imperfect self defense'.

    Re-direct

    The idea of claiming that when you have provoked the action, did that enter into the discussion.
    Objection. Sidebar.

    Back.

    'The imperfect self defense' concept. Carter says what he is talking about with that is "that you meet the force you are encountering with excessive force."

  15. #15
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    Krzensky - Administrative Service Department of Sanford Police.

    Shows him a record for a request for a police ride-along, by George Zimmerman. Reason to solidify my chances to pursue a law enforcement career.

    O'Mara cross:
    Only record?

    Witness excused.
    Last edited by i.b.nora; 07-03-2013 at 10:52 AM.

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