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  1. #1
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    Middle Mountain Search

    Here's a picture of the type of terrain the searchers combed. I saw a video earlier where the searchers were tied in and seemed to be rappelling to the remains (sorry I can't find the video now). Again, I think they should continue searching, at least for the skull, at the bottom of the slope where they found the remains and bring more naturalists/biologists on board to help find scavenger dens. They need to find more remains to establish the COD.


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    Here is a graph for reference (page 11), from the SAR reference link PDF Manual, regarding bone dispersion of human remains in the wild.



    (The Search for Human Remains in the SAR Environment 33 Pages PDF Format (SARTI-Mark Gleason) 3-08
    www.sarti.us/sarti/files/SearchForHumanRemains.pdf
    Thank you so much for sharing this information. I've just spent 30 minutes reading the link...more to read obviously...but I was interested in the portion that discussed preparing for the search. Good searches, according to the text are not random.
    One of the most important considerations is related to working with the local jurisdiction’s responsible agent/law enforcement or, in the case of some searches, multiple jurisdictions covered by the search area. It is often law enforcement on scene that have suspect or subject information that can greatly inform search strategy. The release of this sensitive information to search planners is often subject to delicate negotiation. The information to be obtained should include, at a minimum:
    1. General investigative findings
    2. Witness accounts. It is noted that, with respect to investigations, friends of the victim have been identified as having more correct information about day-to-day routines than either family members or co-workers.
    3. Information on suspects or persons of interest
    4. Suspected high probability areas, and reasons for having been identified as such
    5. Time since suspected death or burial
    We must stress that the search for human remains is ultimately an exercise in clue awareness. While surface deposits are not “concealed” in any intentional sense, they are still difficult to locate. A clandestine grave is, by its very nature, not meant to be found.
    As such, consideration should be given to the following:
    1. The murder may not have been intended and the body disposal not well planned.
    2. The body may simply have been placed in a depression and covered with leaves,
    left under a log, etc.
    3. Soil conditions and the local environment may cause the grave to be very shallow.
    4. The grave site may have been hastily chosen, with access a primary consideration.
    5. The grave will likely be dug at a time, manner, and location that will decrease the
    possibility that the grave will be observed (secluded). Consider that the burial
    may have occurred at night, thereby limiting the field of vision of the grave digger to a very small area.
    Considering the highly specialized team of searchers LE put together, IMO...MOO, it seems that they had a good idea where results might best be achieved.
    "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
    Groucho Marx

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    Okay - I see what you are saying Ghostwheel and I agree. But ... what if the crime happened, say before the rock face? Could animals have taken the bones to where they were found?
    It would be possible, but not likely, if the remains were found in the culvert shown on TV and that was up on the mountain. If the remains were found in a den of some sort, it would make sense for the bones to be taken there, or if they were found in various places up a hill near the creek or if the culvert shown were down at the bottom of the mountain. (assuming that culvert is where they were found)

    ETA: There is the very slight possibility that an animal could have dragged some remains uphill through the culvert.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Money Girl View Post
    I liked the "satellite" map with this article. It is also shown as terrain.

    I personally don't know where Dylan's remains were found on this map.

    http://www.durangoherald.com/article...-knocks-search
    Unfotunately, LE has not released exactly where the remains were found. I've been guessing what I think are the most logical choices based on pictures and information.

    That is a topographic map. It shows the elevation using the lines a guides for where the elevation changes. I used one of those in my previous post because they help show how much the elevation changes. It's amazing what you can see/do on a computer.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  5. #5
    Here is another map that can be switched from topo to satellite and manipulated to view the area.

    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lake+...arket&t=m&z=16

  6. #6
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    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2...5.114,69.181,0

    From Google Earth.
    Snap shot from Mark's home (A) to 9.5 miles (B) on Middle Mountain Road. This is a good visual from above Mark's house on Middle Mountain Road and shows the Vallecito Reservoir behind.
    Note the two deepest areas appear at 8.3 miles and at 9.5 miles from Marks. I believe Ghostwheel said the first runs down into Bear Creek. The second area at 9.5 looks like it has even more fall off. I don't think Dylan walked up here by road or by trail. Also Ghostwheel thought the search crews had their main search station in the large bare looking area, just in-between the two areas I've noted. Thanks Ghostwheel.
    Last edited by caffeinejean; 07-06-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Angry No walk. Maps. Shoe. Poster

    Have lurked for a local to jump in... But here's my cents.
    Posting some maps. First image is 10 google miles from Mark's house. A few other images of perspective.
    Also screenshot as appeared on public family pages which designates the alleged trail area.

    On the posted topo maps in this thread, find the creeks running across MM & MM road. Both drain into Vallecito creek (then res) and flow by Mark's home. 10 miles is upper creek. Seems if dogs picked a scent in res dogs would have picked up @ creek by Mark's home (if checked)
    Creek flow is low in November.
    Possible this road was closed by gate within week of Dylan disappearance.

    As far as Dylan walking?! No way. . Aside from DR age, digital dependency and dressing like he is DRIVEN places Dylan did not go for walk in HIS CLOTHES---UNLESS HE WAS LEFT BEHIND en route? If that was the case, he would have gone to his friends house bc it was 5.9 miles closer than his dads. DR was not abducted. The community has never been declared in danger.

    As far as Mark running up a hill after bushwacking in tinder dry forest? No way again!! Not in November and not with out leaving evidence or heaving ATV very possible. If he doesn't own one, I'd be surprised. Not one article mentions ATV? Maybe parked it elsewhere? Family and friends may know about ATV use. Also DMV would have registration.

    Tonight, I think, Mark handed the job of making Dylan missing to someone else.

    In other clues, did you read NEW REWARD poster??
    READ till bottom and you find. LE is seeking campers from 11/18/12 --

    ALSO does anyone KNOW what size shoe Dylan was wearing? Going back to post referring to someone else wearing his shoes...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    Could someone kindly put a map up with the location of MR's house, Dylan's friends house and approx location of the remains please.

    Thanks you

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinejean View Post
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2...5.114,69.181,0

    From Google Earth.
    Snap shot from Mark's home (A) to 9.5 miles (B) on Middle Mountain Road. This is a good visual from above Mark's house on Middle Mountain Road and shows the Vallecito Reservoir behind.
    Note the two deepest areas appear at 8.3 miles and at 9.5 miles from Marks. I believe Ghostwheel said the first runs down into South Bear Creek. The second area at 9.5 looks like it has even more fall off and runs down into Bear Creek. I don't think Dylan walked up here by road or by trail. Also Ghostwheel thought the search crews had their main search station in the large bare looking area, just in-between the two areas I've noted. Thanks Ghostwheel.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...1&d=1373137844

    I am trying again, forgot to attach photo (snap shot) of google earth, for those who do not have google maps Earth downloaded.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by caffeinejean; 07-06-2013 at 03:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotsPaddy View Post
    Could someone kindly put a map up with the location of MR's house, Dylan's friends house and approx location of the remains please.

    Thanks you
    Google Maps Earth version
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2...73.96,55.734,0

    Google Maps Regular Version
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2...,55.734,0&z=11

    Now, I'm having fun with posting maps!
    Besides Mark's house (A) and the Middle Mountain Road location (B) I have also included where I believe the main lake searches and dog hits were (C) and where they cordoned off the lake to search 20 feet from the shoreline.
    I've also added the friend of Dylan said to live by the Marina at approx. 5.9 miles (D) from MR's house, and Dylans friends location in Bayfield (E).

    A. Mark's house
    B. Middle Mountain Road (9.5 miles from MR's) remains search location.
    C. Middle Mountain Campground (site of lake searches).
    D. Friend T. lives near Marina (5.9 miles).
    E. Township of Bayfield, friends R and F (approx. 20 miles from MR).

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...1&d=1373157091
    Last edited by caffeinejean; 07-06-2013 at 09:03 PM.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    Many thank yous. I zoomed in and did find at least one concrete drainage culvert under the road at what I think is Bear Creek, and something else that looks like it might be a second one, so we at least know the there are drainage culverts under the road. And enough dirt roads that anyone could have driven Dylan anywhere up there if it wasn't muddy. I've driven roads in the condition I see on this map in a Honda Odyssey van. Anyone with a truck would have no problem.
    From what I've seen in maps and videos I think this high mountain road appears very well groomed. I don't think any car would have much of a problem until, of course, the snows arrive or for timber falls. Then it looks like they just close a good portion of it off for safety (due diligence) during the winter and until road cleanup has been performed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebeccaeee View Post
    This is FASCINATING info. Do you have a theory that would indicate where the larger elements of the body would be, given the potential for animal scattering seen here? If i'm following correctly, it would seem that the skull would likely be elsewhere, perhaps a great distance elsewhere. I have been trying to reconcile the cadaver dogs hits at the lake as early as 11/25 with a body dumped in the mountains on 11/18. Any ideas?
    Thank you! I have only started looking at this case about a week ago, so I have a lot to catch up on. From the reports that I have read, the bones were found under 10 miles from MR's house. After inspecting the search photos, it appears that the search staging site is located at 9.2 miles from MR's house.

    Photo of the Search Staging Site:

    Google Maps of the possible staging site:
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=M...ra=ls&t=h&z=19
    It was mentioned that the bones were found in a 1.5 mile area. It was also stated in the following article that a shoulder bone and a leg bone were found.
    http://www.9news.com/news/article/34...n-undetermined
    I remember other people mentioning that a finger bone was found near coyote feces. This makes sense if whole limbs are often carried by larger animals like coyotes, and smaller animals can help separate them. A shoulder bone, leg bone and finger bone seem to make up a wide range of bones for a 1.5 mile stretch. If these were found real close together, then this might be why LE thinks that DR's body was taken to the area postmortem. IMO, the skull would be North of the shoulder bone, maybe North of the 10 mile mark turnout. If you look at the Google Maps link, you can go up the road about a half a mile, and there is a turnout with a red pickup in it (image dated 8/7/2011).


    It could be a possible place to back up and hide a body. Then there would be an easy exit back on to the road. This turnout is 10 miles from MR's house. We could look at a 1.5 mile radius from the staging area, for more Google Maps Sleuthing. I am not sure if the 1.5 miles is road miles or if terrain makes up part of that stretch.

    Here is great excerpt, on Clandestine Graves from the same SAR PDF linked above:

    "Citing FBI statistics, Vass indicates that clandestine graves are typically no deeper than
    2.5 feet, are “close” to water or “near” a poorly traveled road, are 10 feet away from the nearest large tree, and contain a clothed or wrapped corpse which will be face down"....
    "Recovery sites are largely rural (51%). The geographical profile for the recovery sites includes:
    1. Remote areas with vehicle/road access
    2. Near or in water
    3. Within ½ mile of an intersection
    4. Dirt roads are favored over paved roads
    5. Body often within 150 feet of access road
    6. Body located to downhill side if sloped ground is present."
    Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-07-2013 at 04:29 AM.
    "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute" - Proverbs 31:8

    The Whitney Heichel Memorial Garden Project - bringing "beauty and light into a place where there once was so much darkness"

  13. #13
    http://www.bluesprucervpark.com/comp...rticle/30.html

    An explanation of trails in the area, where the trail heads are. Wish it showed where they went.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel View Post
    Jumping off your post. Here I am being picky again. The actual location has not been released. It has always been implied that the remains were found UP on the mountain (since Mark had to go up to the mountain to see where the remains were found). It is my belief that when Mark refers to "It was right below the road there", he was talking about it being right below the road on Middle Mountain. That's up a steep hill.
    <snipped for space>
    According to the Durango Herald:
    "The remains were found in a drainage about 8 to 10 miles from the father's house, through the rural road system, Bender said. It is closer by a straight line. Bender declined to be specific about exactly where the remains were found. “It was roughly halfway up Middle Mountain Road,” he said."
    http://www.durangoherald.com/article...-remains-found

    The search staging site appears to be located 9.2 miles from MR's house.

    Google Maps Staging Site:
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=M...ra=ls&t=h&z=19

    The 8 mile mark up Middle Mountain Road, would basically be a straight line East. This is a map from MR's house up to the 10 mile mark, turnout.


    IMO, DR was murdered at a different location and dumped in a clandestine grave above that turnout, no more than a few hundred feet into the woods. If LE thinks that DR's death was not natural, then they must have some evidence on the bones that they found indicating this. Could there be cut marks? Shotgun BBs? Maybe even the shoulder bone crushed in a certain way that shows a possibly deadly blow?. Perimortem breaks will be the same color as the bone, and indicate that the break happened during or around the time of death. A shoulder bone is in a vital location, near the head, neck and heart and certain damage might give a clear indication of a violent death. Postmortem damage, such as animal bites or breaks, will usually show lighter marks than the rest of the bone.
    Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-07-2013 at 07:04 PM. Reason: clarity
    "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute" - Proverbs 31:8

    The Whitney Heichel Memorial Garden Project - bringing "beauty and light into a place where there once was so much darkness"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    According to the Durango Herald:
    "The remains were found in a drainage about 8 to 10 miles from the father's house, through the rural road system, Bender said. It is closer by a straight line. Bender declined to be specific about exactly where the remains were found. “It was roughly halfway up Middle Mountain Road,” he said."
    http://www.durangoherald.com/article...-remains-found

    The search staging site appears to be located 9.2 miles from MR's house.

    Google Maps Staging Site:
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=M...ra=ls&t=h&z=19

    The 8 mile mark up Middle Mountain Road, would basically be a straight line East. This is a map from MR's house up to the 10 mile mark, turnout.


    IMO, DR was murdered at a different location and dumped in a clandestine grave above that turnout, no more than a few hundred feet into the woods. If LE thinks that DR's death was not natural, then they must have some evidence on the bones that they found indicating this. Could there be cut marks? Shotgun BBs? Maybe even the shoulder bone crushed in a certain way that shows a possibly deadly blow?. Perimortem breaks will be the same color as the bone, and indicate that the break happened during or around the time of death. A shoulder bone is in a vital location, near the head, neck and heart and certain damage might give a clear indication of a violent death. Postmortem damage, such as animal bites or breaks, will usually show lighter marks than the rest of the bone.
    I hear what you are saying. I came up with the same places on a previous post or posts here somewhere, and while I cannot see your last jpg, I assume it is over Bear Creek, which I agree with. But for me, until LE actually says that's the place, I can't say that that IS the place, only that I think that is where it is.

    I wonder if a clavicle was found (Mark said shoulder bone, but someone else said clavicle, I'll have to look it up)...does anyone remember the creepy drawing of Dylan that was on, was it Teresa's, website? The top drawing had what looked like a bullet hole drawn in the right clavicle area. Just something to wonder about.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

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