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  1. #1
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    George Zimmerman Real Time Trial Thread *No Discussion* 7/11/2013

    George Zimmerman Real Time Trial Thread *No Discussion* Friday July 12 th 2013
    Last edited by Tricia; 07-11-2013 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Here you go
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  3. #3
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    Bill S....court hearing lasted all of 6 min. about jury instructions.

    Terry Spencer ‏@terryspen 10m
    Florida cities, community leaders work to head off unrest if Zimmerman acquitted - http://abcn.ws/13Q2wgs .@mikeschneiderap .@miamicurt
    Retweeted by Kyle Hightower

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 3m
    State attys Mantei and Guy chatting with defense atty West in courtroom over charging document now.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    Court is in recess for 30 min to give remaining attorneys time to conference on some things. #zimmerman

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 1m
    Prosecutor De la Rionda is also not here. Presumably he and O'Mara are working on their closing arguments.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 3m
    Defense attorney Don West apologized to judge/informed judge he would handle charging conf solo. Mark O'Mara is elsewhere 4 now

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 4m
    Defense attorneys were about a minute or so late for second straight day.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 6m
    Court is back in session.

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 8m
    Note: Defense attorney O'Mara will be arguing that lesser includ charges of manslaughter/aggravated assault should be thrown out

    Kyle Hightower ‏@khightower 11m
    In the courtroom. People tricking in. Attys need to finish jury instruction debate. If sked holds, state will begin closing @1.
    Last edited by Reader; 07-11-2013 at 09:24 AM.

  4. #4
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    From O'Mara's press conference last night and trial recap:

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 10h
    VIDEO: Day 21 recap in the #GeorgeZimmerman trial: http://goo.gl/G3Mdm . #ZIMMERMANon9. #WFTV.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 12h
    TONIGHT: #GeorgeZimmerman won't take the stand. Hear a testy exchange about it between his attorney & Judge Nelson. #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 14h
    "We'll be cautious" if there's an acquittal, Mark O'Mara says about safety. #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 15h
    Defense will not bring in marijuana evidence, @Markomaralaw says. #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 15h
    Mark O'Mara doesn't want a sympathy verdict, he says. #ZIMMERMANon9

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 15h
    Mark O'Mara about #GeorgeZimmerman: "He's worried." #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 15h
    "I think he wanted to tell his story." - Mark O'Mara about #GeorgeZimmerman.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 15h
    Mark O'Mara at press conference now. #ZIMMERMANon9. pic.twitter.com/yICQWaLaZc

  5. #5
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    WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 2h
    Closing arguments to begin in #Zimmerman trial http://at.wftv.com/154atLI #zimmermanon9 pic.twitter.com/AsxetGQ346
    Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV

    Deneige Broom ‏@DBroomWFTV 8m
    .@BillSheafferPA says jurors won't know the possible sentences attached to charges before they deliberate #Zimmermanon9 #TrayvonMartin
    Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV

    Deneige Broom ‏@DBroomWFTV 12m
    Recess for 30 minutes while both sides prepare arguments about jury instructions #Zimmermanon9 #TrayvonMartin
    Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
    Defense's @markomaralaw not in courtroom this morning. Prepping closing argument? #Zimmermanon9

  6. #6
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    Apparently court came back before the 30 min. was over, OM there, and the judge and West had a little back and forth, according to Bill S. He also reminded us this is not in front of the jury. Bill said no matter the judge's feelings toward West, she is steady, knows the law and is fair.

    Correction: that exchange may have been replayed from yesterday. (it's hard to keep track of West's objections!)

    Correction again: Bill S. replayed the West and judge exchange and it was this morning, with West demanding the instructions include the statement that following someone is not against the law. Judge says she will not include it and this is when she told him, you continually argue with my decisions and she has already 3 times given him copies of correct court procedure and he is not to argue with her decisions.
    On the video, he continues to speak about the issue and she again says, your limini motion is denied.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 13h
    TONIGHT: #GeorgeZimmerman won't take the stand. Hear a testy exchange about it between his attorney & Judge Nelson. #ZIMMERMANon9.

    [I remember this now...Tues. night, judge wanted to hear this from GZ and asked him to stand and respond..West said he would speak for GZ, judge said no, and told him to sit down.]

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    @danachaabanwftv @cyberbouncer asks: did judge break rule yesterday by overruling West's objection w/out hearing his basis for objection?

    Bill S. and reporter discussing court rules for media during closings and verdict. Of note, the jury will receive letters on their chairs telling them it is their decision whether they want to talk to media after the verdict or not.

    WFTV Eyewitness News ✔ @WFTV
    Join @BillSheafferPA and @GWarmothWFTV during court breaks for #Zimmermantrial commentary during #Zimmermanon9.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    30-minute recess has turned into 40 minutes... #Zimmermanon9

    Bill S. points out that objections are allowed during closings if the facts are misstated or other violations...it is rare...
    Last edited by Reader; 07-11-2013 at 01:31 PM.

  7. #7
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    State attorney Mantei has issue with defense replacing "defendant" with #GeorgeZimmerman. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    Court is back in session. #Zimmeranon9

    One big change is that only the first letter of names will be in cap, not the whole name...

    Defense wants to take off all lesser offenses and have only 2nd degree murder or not guilty...Mantei going over differences in definition of charges state wants...West says they charged 2nd degree and 'have not proved it' so that should be the only choice...
    Judge questions GZ personally if he understands this is what his defense team wants and does he agree, yes...she will rule on this later...


    West: State has change manslaughter to 'manslaughter by act' which applies to 'criminal negligence'..he is researching and will let them know what he has later...

    Mantei..next request of lesser is 3rd degree felony murder...state proposal has proved 3 elements of this charge...he is giving cases that apply, including child abuse, waving the gun around and the gun going off, law changed...can now include unintentional act...

    They are also discussing definitions of charges included in the instructions.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    Defense doesn't want lesser charges--2nd deg murder or nothing. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    State wants to included charges of manslaughter and 3rd degree murder instead of aggravated assault. #Zimmermanon9

  8. #8
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 6m
    The state also wants felony murder based in part on child abuse. Martin had just turned 17 before #Zimmermanon9 shot and killed him.

    Mantei giving several cases to base this on....

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    The judge will include third degree murder as an option for the jury but not aggravated assault with a firearm. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 6m
    The only charge on the table and they have to be able to prove it or #Zimmermanon9 should go free. 2/2

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 7m
    The defense argued unsuccessfully that the state charged #Zimmermanon9 with second degree murder so that should be 1/2

    FL Courts 18 ‏@PIOFLCourts18 7m
    Response to FAQ:
    ****Jury Instructions will be on http://ww.flcourts18.org as soon as they are completed.
    Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV
    ****added by poster

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 8m
    Court will give jury instructions on the lesser charge of manslaughter. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 8m
    The judge has ruled that manslaughter will be an option for the jury in addition to second degree murder. #Zimmerman

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 13m
    Defense doesn't want lesser charges--2nd deg murder or nothing. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 13m
    State wants to included charges of manslaughter and 3rd degree murder instead of aggravated assault. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 16m
    Sorry, WON'T be in all caps. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 17m
    Both #Zimmerman's and #TrayvonMartin's name will be in all caps for uniformity. #Zimmermanon9

  9. #9
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    West reponds to Mantei's wanting charge of 3rd degree murder based on child abuse: says this was dumped on them at 7:30am this morning and he has obviously been working on it for at least a year. State has been lying in wait with this since April.

    West: just when I thought this case could not get anymore bazaar, it goes further...can the court take this seriously? If the court was not provided this either...judge says don't go there, there has been a lot of material I have requested and not received.

    West: Mantei has obviously been working on this for months and is not fair to defense or GZ or court for this to happen right now...this 'remarkable' suggested by state...he will need hours of recess to research...that somehow GZ was engaged in child abuse in trying to defend himself..

    West to judge: this is a trick! don't you realize this is a trick?

    Judge says these instructions are part of the definition from the supreme court on 3rd degree murder with the unlying definition of child abuse, indicating he should have known...I'm not going to allow you hours...he interrupts and she says, I'm not finished speaking, he apologizes...

    West: I object.

    Judge: we will deal with that later...

  10. #10
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    WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV 10m
    #DonWest reacts to state seeking 3rd degree murder w/child abuse: "Just when I thought this case couldn't get more bizarre." #Zimmermanon9
    Retweeted by Ryan Hughes - WFTV

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 10s
    NOW: "I don't want to hear the word 'trick' anymore in regards to these arguments, please." - Judge Debra Nelson #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The last minute. He said it's typical if the way the state has operated. Prosecutor Rich Mantei did not deny it. 2/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    The defense said "doesn't the court realize this was a trick?" (by the state to spring the child abuse murder issue at 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 7m
    Pummeling #Zimmermanon9. 2/2

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 7m
    The defense says it needs more time to prepare.. And says it's absurd that #Zimmermanon9 was abusing a child when Martin was 1/2

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 9m
    There is a lot of talking to do.. He said it's outrageous and disingenuous. 2/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 10m
    The defense says the case has gotten even more bizarre.. and said if the judge is giving it serious consideration 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 11m
    @taggat4 The jury is not present. They come in at 1pm. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 13m
    @denimh20 It humanizes him to the jury. @SunnyHostin @MDumercy #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 13m
    The state seemed to concede yesterday that even if Martin was on top, once #Zimmermanon9 grabbed for his gun he became the aggressor.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 14m
    In death even if unintentional and even if #Zimmermanon9 didn't realize Martin was under 18 should be a related lesser charge.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
    The state is arguing for third degree felony murder.. arguing irrational or hostile behavior toward a child resulting 1/2 #Zimmermanon9


  11. #11
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    Mantei going over the instructions for 3rd degree murder that concern child abuse, he says the choice is there, if not to be used, why is it there?

    Judge to West, you included this on the instructions, he agrees but said he did for discussion, it required the state prove that something GZ did provoked the confrontation and he says they have not proven this. Goes over his 'facts' of TM attacking GZ first. Is saying that the witness (Jentel, TMs friend) that says GZ attacked TM is wrong and is telling judge that what she heard does not prove GZ attacked TM first. TM had time to go home but he did not and hung around to confront GZ. He says that is established clearly. Says GZ was not following....on and on...it is outrageous to suggest to this jury that GZ provoked the confrontation...he did not use force or threaten use of force as required..Mantei knows this and state has not offered a compelling argument to give this to the jury...

    Mantei says the only facts required are force or threat of force, but West is determining the witness is not credible and this is the job of the jury to determine if the witness is believeable...GZ admits he followed, there is evidence and is up to the jury not to West to decide....there is evidence of provocation by GZ and should go to jury...

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 2m
    RT @garywgreen: Don West motions towards Angela Corey in response to last minute child abuse charges: pic.twitter.com/mdhruwX7me.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The defense accused the state of pulling tricks again and the judge asked Don Wesr not to use the word "trick" any more. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 31s
    The instructions are the jury's guidebook in reaching a verdict. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The lawyers are arguing over the language in jury instructions which is tedious but important. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The state just said the facts show an equal possibility that either #Zimmermanon9 or Martin was the aggressor.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 44s
    Don West: "#TrayvonMartin had 2 or 3 minutes to get home...and chose not to." #ZIMMERMANon9.

  12. #12
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The defense says there is no evidence #Zimmermanon9 provoked the deadly confrontation.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    The defense says Martin's friend said Martin first spoke to #Zimmermanon9 and walking behind someone is not provoking.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The defense says Martin had almost 4 minutes to go 348 feet to get away from #Zimmermanon9 but chose not to.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 9m
    The state just said the facts show an equal possibility that either #Zimmermanon9 or Martin was the aggressor.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    In a similar case in Pinellas County last year, the state did not charge finding following is not illegal or improper. #Zimmermanon9

    West now going back and forth with judge that they are asking for instructions to jury that meet the defense's theory of their case; if the instruction includes 3rd degree it will make the jury think GZ did something wrong and followed TM; if state is allowed to include this it is an improper statement of the law and if the jury finds him guilty of this, it will be a miscarriage of the law...

    Mantei, it does not have to be against the law to include the fact the GZ was possibly following TM, it is up to the jury to determine the facts based on evidence...

    West, repeats again, judge says you continually argue with me when I make a ruling and this is against court procedure, you are free to communicate that to the jury in closing arguments, if my decision is wrong then it can be appealed later...West asks again if the state is allowed to tell jury it is against the law to follow someone, she should change this...judge, no

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The defense wants the judge to tell the jury following is not illegal. The judge says she won't. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    @Angie_Lytical #TrayvonMartin's parents are not in court for this. They'll likely be here for closing arguments. #Zimmermanon9

  13. #13
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    I never knew going over instructions could be so dramatic!

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    The felony third degree murder/child abuse issue is on hold for now as defense researches the state's last minute add. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 1m
    STORY: Judge: Jury can consider manslaughter in #Zimmermantrial: http://at.wftv.com/154atLI #Zimmermanon9 via @WFTV

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    The judge said the defense can tell the jury following is not illegal during closing. #Zimmermanon9

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 2m
    Judge Debra Nelson to Don West: "You continually disagree with this court everytime I make a ruling." #ZIMMERMANon9.

  14. #14
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    West now argues for instruction to jury to include that case is based on circumstantial evidence.

    Mantei if that argument was correct, every case would have this instructions, and second this case is not only circumstantial, there is direct evidence that GZ shot TM, there is other physical evidence from the state. The Supreme court has said prefaces every case with saying both have to be included.

    Judge: I'm not including that instruction.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    Bomb threat at CIVIL courthouse in #Sanford across from City Hall. Not #Zimmermanon9 courthouse. Evacuations happening. @KRayWFTV otw.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 6m
    Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda is not in court and neither is the Martin family. #Zimmermanon9

    State wanted to include fact that some expert witnesses were paid and amounts. West disagrees, and judge agrees with him, this is not something I feel the jury should consider in evaluating their testimony. Mantei understands.

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 2m
    The defense wants a special instruction about circumstantial evidence but the judge said no. #Zimmermanon9

    West asks are these instructions going to be personalized? judge says yes (don't know what this means)

    Judge: we have to talk about the felony murder 3rd degree...concerning the child abuse...one of the elements is intentional act required...that is not alleged in the state's action...Mantei says the shooting..judge, that's the issue I will be looking at but will give Mr. West some time to research...

    Judge...the only ones I have to deal with are the 3rd degree and the instruction for 2nd degree, state's request for 'great bodily harm' definition be included....West says he does not agree, but define the 'fear bodily harm', he would take out aggravated battery...the supreme court decided it didn't need to be defined beyond the public understanding...it's not that GZ sustained great bodily harm, but that he feared it...WEst says I used the definition from the SC...state is using definition, she cites several cases....West these cases are not correct to cite, they do not apply to self defense..the state's definition is deeply wrong and should not be used, just plain wrong for the jury to have...no injuries are required for self defense...

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 3m
    Judge Debra Nelson: "Some [witnesses] sounded like they were giving infomercials." #ZIMMERMANon9.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 6m
    RT @WFTV: Bomb, gun threat at #Sanford civil courthouse: http://at.wftv.com/11FKLAg ; pic.twitter.com/KCyy6n3lgt.

    Mantei...says jury should know about the reasonableness of GZ's fear...wants a special instruction on this...judge denies...she finds this request akin to defense's prior request on a definition...

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 5m
    The defense says #Zimmermanon9 's injuries are irrelevant. Martin would not have had to lay a hand on him to argue seld defense

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 6m
    The state wants the judge to define "great bodily harm". The defense says the Supreme Court doesn't do it in self defense. #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 9m
    Sanford PD chief told @KRayWFTV that bomb threat could be an effort to draw cops away from #Zimmermanon9, among other possibilities.

  15. #15
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    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 3m
    The judge is not going to give the jury a special definition of "great bodily harm" . #Zimmermanon9

    Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m
    The defense says that #Zimmermanon9 didn't die and didn't have his skull cracked isn't relevant.

    Ryan Hughes - WFTV ‏@RHughesWFTV 8m
    Via @DanaChaabanWFTV: Judge Nelson rules "great bodily harm" definition will NOT be read to jury. State can argue it in closing.

    On to jury verdict form, West agrees with choices given but objects to formatting...he thinks not guilty should be first...judge said that is not done, understands his arguments and is not doing that...judge, it will be on the same page of the other choices...charges should have strongest charge first, judge agrees charges will be first then the special considerations of use of firearm...

    They will recess now and back at 1:00 and be prepared to argue the 3rd degree instructions before DLR starts his closing..

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