The Letter of Reference

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jenstar

jenstar

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NCSleuth said:
The letter from Roger Steinbeck. What is everyone's take on it? Seems kinda weird to be a complete fake. If you are going to fake a reference letter, why talk about working for rent. Why not just say she worked for me and was a good employee.
On the other hand, it says from high school until July of 1988. Well, she wasn't Lori Kennedy until July 5th of 1988. Just so strange. Was she trying to serve two purposes, a reference letter for employment and rental, but then why not just fake two letters. Could it be as simple as she had one piece of Oriental Stationary and thought the letters would look more real on it? We are dealing with a person that wasn't stable, so things that don't make sense to us might have made perfect sense to her. Also, based on her signature as Lori Ruff, it doesn't appear she signed Roger Steinbeck.
Click to expand...

The only thing that would truly answer the question (for me at least) is what type of stationery it was written/typed on. She seemed to have different handwriting styles and only a true analyst could tell if it were the same person who wrote both signatures. I would say that the (R) in "Roger Steinbeck" signature looks completely different than the one in "Lori Ruff". However Both (R's) seem to have one fluid movement with a line going down, back up around and then curving to a straight. Even if it's a fake, it's a real well thought out fake. Comparison in the link below.

http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/j...-4a0bdb57d4df_zpsd92c3c64.jpg.html?state=copy

I say it's a fake all around for the following reasons;
1) 1988 or after is when the recommendation letter was written (according to the Logo Header) even though it hadn't an actual date.
a) because The Mandarin would keep stationery current.
b)because 1988 is when she legally became Lori Kennedy.

2) IF she had worked for a RS "for years" during that time it would have been under the name BST or her REAL name. She was BST for awhile, up until July of 88'.

Link to strongbox documents below:
http://seattletimes.com/html/localpages/2021243300_janedoeevidence.html
 
and a roger steinbeck was in thailand? that's a common name where i'm from (last name). i know a few vet. dancers that worked over there, they were all born in the 60's (and obv retired now). it was pretty common I guess. I'd never go but that's me.

That's a very interesting thing. Oddly enough, a very close male friend is working over there as we speak and in the industry. i'll shoot him an email and see if he has time to sleuth around.
 
just looked at it. Obviously it's a fake. Typed up/ on regular printer head that appears to have been cheaply made copies of. It doesn't take much to go up to a random person on the street (homeless) and pay them X amount of dollars to just sign something.

i don't think she went to thailand, she knew that no one would call over there long distance to check a reference. Plus it excuses her absence
 
AstroKitty said:
and a roger steinbeck was in thailand? that's a common name where i'm from (last name). i know a few vet. dancers that worked over there, they were all born in the 60's (and obv retired now). it was pretty common I guess. I'd never go but that's me.

That's a very interesting thing. Oddly enough, a very close male friend is working over there as we speak and in the industry. i'll shoot him an email and see if he has time to sleuth around.
Click to expand...

Yeah, supposedly this Roger Steinbeck was in Thailand. The signature does NOT look forged or faked to me. It looks like a real legal signature of a Roger Steinbeck. Maybe there was a "signature stamp" or something somewhere that she could have gotten ahold of? Many think the letter is a fake and she got the letter head somehow. That may be correct and she may have somehow gotten ahold of a "Roger Steinbeck" signature stamper thing.
 
AstroKitty said:
just looked at it. Obviously it's a fake. Typed up/ on regular printer head that appears to have been cheaply made copies of. It doesn't take much to go up to a random person on the street (homeless) and pay them X amount of dollars to just sign something.

i don't think she went to thailand, she knew that no one would call over there long distance to check a reference. Plus it excuses her absence
Click to expand...

I still think the signature is really that of a "Roger Steinbeck". If it wasn't, the letters would be more recognizable and wouldn't trail off at the end the way they do. A lot of people's (especially men) legal signatures do that; the letters trail off at the end and are not really recognizable and the first letter of each name is much larger. Pretty common. If I were trying to forge that signature, you'd be able to read EVERY letter in the name and the sizes of the letters would be more uniform. I think she may have gotten ahold of a signature stamp somehow.

I don't think she went to Thailand, either and I think you're right that she could use that as an excuse for a blank where her "history" should be.
 
or she could have just asked someone to sign something for her (it's really easy to pay a homeless person to do it in exchange, common in check scams). The letter head could be explained by having found one somewhere and holding on to it till she knew what to do with it. Did anyone ever look at the stamps on her passport?
 
AstroKitty said:
or she could have just asked someone to sign something for her (it's really easy to pay a homeless person to do it in exchange, common in check scams). The letter head could be explained by having found one somewhere and holding on to it till she knew what to do with it. Did anyone ever look at the stamps on her passport?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. Any old "Roger Steinbeck" (even a homeless person) could have been asked to sign something and then she'd have a signature to use. If it was a homeless person who was somewhat "troubled" themselves, she may have even asked them to sign the letterhead paper and they might not have thought too much about it.
 
I think the "letter of reference" was a backup in case a potential employer wanted some explanation for why she didn't have any employment or residence history before 1988. She must have had a cover story of some kind, saying that she had lived in Thailand (with parents?) during high school and then worked there for a while afterward.

The Oriental Hotel is very unlikely to have employed an American high school student and then offered her a "work for rent" arrangement for anything other than sex shows or other sex work unless she or her family knew someone in the hotel and got her a more conventional job. But if it was a more conventional job, the letter would have said what it was.

So possibly she was really in Thailand, but it seems unlikely that it was through July of 1988 because of the timing of the name change. If she was in Thailand, she may have asked the letter writer to post date the letter when she was planning to leave and may actually have been using the LEK name there anyway, planning to legally change it when she returned to the US.

The cult known by various names -- Children of God, The Family -- was active in Thailand at that time and used its female members as prostitutes to try to recruit new members. Child sex abuse was reportedly common among their members, and in Thailand it may not actually have been illegal to use their younger members as prostitutes. If LEK really was in Thailand, it's possible that she was an escapee from that group.

If she was never in Thailand, she would have to have known someone who was and who had the stationery or have used an identity broker to get the letter.
 
FWIW...

There is/was a Roger Steinbeck
Universidad Técnica Privada de Santa Cruz
1982 – 1984

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-steinbeck/6/944/30b

With the aviation/airline marketing info, it's possible he traveled (thus access to Thailand hotel stationery?).

Maybe he knew LEKR, maybe he didn't.


Also, I found there was a Lori Kennedy who played basketball and attended Marist High School in Oregon in the 80s. 'Cannot find my links at the moment. But, would she really change her name to her "old" name?

** Here's link. Name appears on 2nd page, she was on the First Team 1987
http://www.osaa.org/basketball/records/girlsalltournament.pdf

Also, I assumed Marist would be Marist High School although there is a Marist Catholic School as well.
 
toscaxyz said:
I think the "letter of reference" was a backup in case a potential employer wanted some explanation for why she didn't have any employment or residence history before 1988. She must have had a cover story of some kind, saying that she had lived in Thailand (with parents?) during high school and then worked there for a while afterward.

The Oriental Hotel is very unlikely to have employed an American high school student and then offered her a "work for rent" arrangement for anything other than sex shows or other sex work unless she or her family knew someone in the hotel and got her a more conventional job. But if it was a more conventional job, the letter would have said what it was.

So possibly she was really in Thailand, but it seems unlikely that it was through July of 1988 because of the timing of the name change. If she was in Thailand, she may have asked the letter writer to post date the letter when she was planning to leave and may actually have been using the LEK name there anyway, planning to legally change it when she returned to the US.

The cult known by various names -- Children of God, The Family -- was active in Thailand at that time and used its female members as prostitutes to try to recruit new members. Child sex abuse was reportedly common among their members, and in Thailand it may not actually have been illegal to use their younger members as prostitutes. If LEK really was in Thailand, it's possible that she was an escapee from that group.

If she was never in Thailand, she would have to have known someone who was and who had the stationery or have used an identity broker to get the letter.
Click to expand...

I think her being raised in a cult like this is a very good theory. If she was born overseas somewhere with no documentation, and parents who would not be cooperative in helping her establish her American citizenship, creating a false identity might be the easiest way to "become" a legal citizen. There may even have been other ex-members who would help someone do that.
It would also explain why she may have never been reported missing.
 
AstroKitty said:
welcome bdobbs! i do hope you'll continue to post here :) awesome first post and very informative. if you don't mind, could you share her usernames?
Click to expand...


Nothing fancy. Her posts were 'all business'.


texasrecruiter@consultant.com
assignments@aneyefordetailconsulting.com
info@aneyefordetailconsulting.com

On the Delphi forums she used 'LoriKe', but it seems like for business, she wasn't trying to be sneaky at all.

I don't have access to historical DNS records. I did find some, but I don't have the right level of access to tell the difference between her and the domain squatters who got a hold of it after her.


Also..on a side note..Still reading the how to disappear book.
It has a large section on using remailers to control the letters of reference. Basically, it allows you to assume the identity of the fake personae who is recommending you.

I don't how she made the arrangement with the hotel, but likely, she would receive any mail sent to Roger Steinbeck at the hotel.

I find that part a little strange, like she is putting her own twist on things. John Steinbeck at stayed at that hotel which has housed many notable authors. Wouldn't you assume it is a relation of his living there trying to pump out the next big book for the family name? That would be easily disproved. Strange.
 
toscaxyz said:
Mountain Bell served the Mountain Time Zone, which happens to be exactly 13 hours difference from Bangkok.
Click to expand...

....which would make it very unlikely that anyone would call to check on that reference letter from the mysterious Mr. Steinbeck. Clever, one again.
 
jenstar said:
It seems like she put just enough information on there to get her hired. No more, No less. Note that the header also says rent in exchange for work. Also doubling as a rental reference. She could have made dozens of copies of this for a job and a place to live. My tired mind also wants to point in the direction of a landlord that had her doubling as a secretary or hotel staff. But I know that the "person" may be as fictional as the reference. However, I did find a Roger Steinbeck in Ancestry that lived in North and West Hollywood.
I also found out John Steinbeck had stayed at the Mandarin in Bangkok.
Which path to follow? IDK. JMO
Click to expand...

Is there a clearer view of this letter of reference, the image in the gallery of evidence is so blurry I cant make out a word of it. Tia
 
Yeah, that reference letter has gotten under my skin. Again, if I wanted to fake a reference, I sure as heck wouldn't use paper with a letterhead. I mean, she could just as easily written a forged letter of reference on a plain piece of paper... I don't get it. I think there is something more to that reference......
 
The letter of reference from Roger Steinbeck, which is Item 10 in the Seattle Times image gallery, seems important to me. The signature is very confident, and the tone of the text seems appropriate and relaxed (i.e. not an obvious attempt to impress or impersonate).

However, the caption for the image states "An undated letter of reference for Lori Kennedy for both tenancy and employment at the Oriental Hotel in Bangkok, Thailand. It's almost certainly a forgery, and investigators say there is no such person as Roger Steinbeck."

This interpretation seems badly flawed when you look at the letter without pre-conceptions. It is written on a piece of guest stationery from the Oriental Hotel in Bangkok, not employee letterhead. Roger Steinbeck does not claim to be an employee of the hotel. He never says that Lori Kennedy worked or lived in Thailand. He refers to her as a former "tenant," not "guest." It's seems much simpler to assume that Mr. Steinbeck was a guest of the hotel, and that Lori Kennedy had been a tenant and employee of his in the US, in the spring and summer of 1988.

As an employer, I've received letters of reference like this, where the prospective employee could provide contact information for the reference if needed. I'm also reminded of old letters from my grandfather to my grandmother. Many of them are on hotel stationery, from the period when he was a travelling sales rep. It simply indicates where the letter writer is staying. In this case, it may also be a subtle class indicator, as the Oriental Hotel was and is an expensive, prestige property.

So, if Roger Steinbeck was real, can he be found? I was extremely surprised to find that there are no Roger Steinbecks at all in the Social Security Death Index. Also, the various internet people-finder kind of sites seem to indicate that there are maybe only a handful of people in the US with this name.

I want to follow the rules on privacy, but I'll just say that in terms of geography, age and apparent profession, one person leaps out as the correct Roger Steinbeck. I've let Mr. Velling and Ms. O'Hagan know my theory, and will leave it at that.

P.S. My hope is that Mr. Velling can compare the signature on the letter to known instances of my "candidate's" signature, regardless of his response if and when contacted.
 
Is this paper US 8.5" by 11" or Euro A4 size?

Might be a hint to whether the paper itself is real or fake, although not to whether the info is real or fake.
 
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