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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausgirl View Post
    Not sure about this. Lotta killers and rapists out there who've had a thing for undies, their mother's or a neighbour's, snowdropping (taking stuff from washing lines), etc, crimes both in houses and outdoors.
    Correct they do , but you usually don't see a guy steal women's panties, then go out and kill women out in the woods, remember fantasies mature over time. Which is why I said if the murders were committed in a home.

    Contrary to popular belief, fetish burglars, don't start out as burglars, they usually start out as voyeurs , as their fantast matures, standing watching begins to lose its luster, over time he eventually works his way up to test break ins to see if he can do it and not get caught. He doesn't usually "break" in hell use an unlocked, door or window most likely. Once he develops confidence, in that he may move to steal underwear, or clothing, sometimes, dirty ones, hold more appeal to them.

    Next he moves, to entering homes while someone is home usually a single female or female and child (or children)

    From there he watches, and maybe masturbates, then he progresses the next time, to touch and possible rape .

    Offenders don't usually invest this much time into the development of their craft to then go out and attack women on trails.

    I've long thought it a mistake to link impulsive sex crimes with low IQ/economic status. Maybe the poorer, dumber ones just get caught more often
    Remember there's a reason this data exists, the FBI, and some of the top minds, in the criminal psychology field , spent years and millions of dollars, developing these parameters. They've been proven hundreds of times over.

    I spent quite a bit of time on Kemper recently, reviewing some interviews and so forth. He was organised, but he was also impulsive in some aspects of his behaviour, he did lose control of himself and at times even let victims go on a whim. Some victims became so out of sheer chance, on which he acted impulsively, ie, did not stalk for a sense of power via familiarity the way Rader did (which was Rader's preferred MO).

    I think there's a chance the Wanda killer was organised (not -as- organised as Kemper though). And that he was also impulsive to a degree, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    I'm not seeing much of Carpenter in this.
    Kemper is a case study in any criminal psychology class. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that though this offender may harbor rage toward his mother, hes certainly not like Kemper

    Kepmer did what he did because he got a thrill from it, his killing was fueled from violent sexual fantasies manifesting as an adolescent. He knew what he was doing and basically relished, in its perversion. He stated that he felt he could never actually have a woman, yet desired one but felt the only way he could have one is by killing her 1st .. he was also a necrophile.

    Kempers fantasies involved, murder and dismemberment , and this went back to when he was a child, he used to cut the heads off his sisters dolls

    Kemper wasn't inept like this offender seemed to be , he able to charm victims, into a car even when there were warnings posted to college students NOT to get into a car with someone they didn't know !.To Kemper it was a game,

    The Wanda killer is more like Carpenter, he didn't abduct the girls, because he cant. he most likely surprised them, his MO is not very sophisticated, he didn't kill them for a thrill, he killed them because he was angry

    Oh, I meant to ask - what do you think of Derek Percy as a likely suspect, or at least a good model of the type of offender in this case?
    I usually don't look at the suspects in a case, because that way you don't start trying to make a suspect fit the profile, instead of vice versa

    FBI profilers, usually don't want to know any suspects, they want to read the behaviors at the scene and infer a personality , if you have a suspect you'll tend to start to cut corners to make them fit .
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 12-07-2015 at 04:45 AM. Reason: broken quote

  2. #32
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    Sorry, Rich, I think I got crossed wires with the panty fetish thing. I wasn't implying a fast transition, just saying there's examples of fetish theft and burglary where the killer has evolved to murder and then trawled for victims outside. Like Percy. Brudos comes to mind, and Gerard Schaefer.

    On burial, the thought occurred to me that perhaps he was hoping the bodies wouldn't be discovered, and he could come back and visit them. Something nags me about the burial (obviously, heh) maybe being more than simply outright functional. Could be very wrong, but I like to turn things over and over until they work or don't, and yeah, something nags me on this point.

    Thanks for the back-and-forth, it's very useful to me.

    Some thoughts on Percy: I see a lot of parallels between Kemper and Percy. High IQ plus underachievement, youthful obsessions with death and mutilation, overbearing parents/mother, even the way the parents dealt with them (or didn't, rather). A certain level of meticulousness, coupled with temporary losses of control. Percy is Kemper lite, in a few ways. In others, he's not, of course. But the parallels which do exist are pretty interesting, as are their differences.

    Percy couldn't charm victims into his car until he got one, age 19. But he did trick girls into his clutches, even used other kids to do so, while still a high school student. Even then, the motive was terror and humiliation not any regular kind of sexual fulfilment, so while he was also an opportunistic pedophile (having molested small children already) he was well capable of planned and organised sex crime against older victims.

    Another parallel with Kemper that comes to mind: both placed blame on domineering parents for their behaviour, and this is often cited as a kind of trigger. But in both cases, the controlling behaviour of the parents was a means for them to monitor a child they perceived as a danger to others. So I kind of question whether much of the controlling behaviour of the parents was a symptom rather than a cause of early psychopathic tendencies.

    Back to Wanda Beach: looking back at Brudos and others, as opposed to Rader for whom it was habitual, I see that masturbation over a dead victim can be stepping stone to gaining confidence in raping live victims for lust killers, also. The occurrence of this at Wanda Beach might indicate a partial evolution of that kind.
    _____________
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  3. #33
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    Apr 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausgirl View Post
    Sorry, Rich, I think I got crossed wires with the panty fetish thing. I wasn't implying a fast transition, just saying there's examples of fetish theft and burglary where the killer has evolved to murder and then trawled for victims outside. Like Percy. Brudos comes to mind, and Gerard Schaefer.
    Youre absolutely correct, some have, that's usually in conjunction with a lot of other deviant behaviors as well, you don't often see fetish burglars, just become serial killers, just as you don't see burglars, just one day decide to murder someone , offenders like Schafer they usually have ALOT of other issues going on as well. In Schafer's case I believe (if my memory isn't failing me ) he was also killing and torturing animals as a kid . As his fantasy matured, he began to fantasize, about torturing people... and then did something that many sadist attempt (which is why Police impersonators bother us so ) , he went into law enforcement. but in this case you're dealing with a creature who functions comfortably in a public place.



    On burial, the thought occurred to me that perhaps he was hoping the bodies wouldn't be discovered, and he could come back and visit them. Something nags me about the burial (obviously, heh) maybe being more than simply outright functional. Could be very wrong, but I like to turn things over and over until they work or don't, and yeah, something nags me on this point.
    While ALL behavior itself must be scrutinized, look into what purpose the victim served, to the offender. Then look at the post offensive behavior...If your offender, is just using the victim as a vehicle to express his anger, then why bury them?.. its not like he cares, its moreso for 1 or 2 reasons.. if you look at HOW they were buried, .. shallow grave type, and most likely done by hand quickly .. he probably didn't intend to revisit the girls bodies, and knew they would most likely be found. But he didn't want them to be found too soon.. He was basically hiding them to delay discovery, in which he also enjoyed, knowing the families would be looking for them.

    Thanks for the back-and-forth, it's very useful to me.
    No problem, that's how things get done

    Some thoughts on Percy: I see a lot of parallels between Kemper and Percy. High IQ plus underachievement, youthful obsessions with death and mutilation, overbearing parents/mother, even the way the parents dealt with them (or didn't, rather). A certain level of meticulousness, coupled with temporary losses of control. Percy is Kemper lite, in a few ways. In others, he's not, of course. But the parallels which do exist are pretty interesting, as are their differences.

    Percy couldn't charm victims into his car until he got one, age 19. But he did trick girls into his clutches, even used other kids to do so, while still a high school student. Even then, the motive was terror and humiliation not any regular kind of sexual fulfilment, so while he was also an opportunistic pedophile (having molested small children already) he was well capable of planned and organised sex crime against older victims.

    Another parallel with Kemper that comes to mind: both placed blame on domineering parents for their behaviour, and this is often cited as a kind of trigger. But in both cases, the controlling behaviour of the parents was a means for them to monitor a child they perceived as a danger to others. So I kind of question whether much of the controlling behaviour of the parents was a symptom rather than a cause of early psychopathic tendencies.
    One point to remember is that NOT all killers, even serial killers, are psychopaths (or sociopaths) and not all "paths" are criminals.

    Its a common assumption that Killer = Psychopath (or Sociopath) when in reality MOST murders are committed by those with NO indications of any of the above.

    Kemper however is a Psychopath he has a deep seeded specific psychological need, albeit deviant, that was filled by actions, with absolute disregard for , in order to do what he wanted.

    There was planning involved, a maturation of the fantasy, and MO, he took actions to hide his crimes.

    Back to Wanda Beach: looking back at Brudos and others, as opposed to Rader for whom it was habitual, I see that masturbation over a dead victim can be stepping stone to gaining confidence in raping live victims for lust killers, also. The occurrence of this at Wanda Beach might indicate a partial evolution of that kind.
    Remember look at the significance of the VICTIM to the OFFENDER, that's the most important aspect.

  4. #34
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    May 2012
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    Call to release Wanda Beach murder pictures


    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-to-re...703-zsv4c.html
    MY OPINION ONLY



    Just call me Tootsie

  5. #35
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    What is odd to me is that the girls looked so much alike-they could have been sisters.

  6. #36
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    Another parallel with Kemper that comes to mind: both placed blame on domineering parents for their behaviour, and this is often cited as a kind of trigger. But in both cases, the controlling behaviour of the parents was a means for them to monitor a child they perceived as a danger to others. So I kind of question whether much of the controlling behaviour of the parents was a symptom rather than a cause of early psychopathic tendencies.

    Respectfully snipped

    Your thoughts on the parents being controlling to monitor a child they see as troubled is very interesting and something I have not thought of before, I'm continually learning here
    Trust Your Instincts

  7. #37
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    Oct 2009
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    Do the pictures still exist, though?

  8. #38
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    Aug 2008
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    californ.i.a
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    http://casefilepodcast.com/case-1-th...beach-murders/

    Anyone else liste to this? One of my favorite crime podcasts!
    "i'm not going to marry you. i'm going to EAT you."

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    I was born fifteen years after Wanda Beach and it still haunts me.

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