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  1. #1
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    Can Polygraph Instructors help people to pass test?

    Seeing threats, feds target instructors of polygraph-beating methods

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/1...structors.html

    “Nothing like this has been done before,” John Schwartz, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection official, said of the legal approach in a June speech to a professional polygraphers’ conference in Charlotte, N.C., that a McClatchy reporter attended. “Most certainly our nation’s security will be enhanced.”

    “There are a lot of bad people out there. . . . This will help us remove some of those pests from society,” he added.

    Much more at link.
    Just know one thing, I am the majority.

  2. #2
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    I know polygraph test takers can make people FAIL tests in many cases if they want too. I think the article above probably relates to people teaching others to make the tests inconclusive more than actually passing them.

    From my limited understanding the whole idea of a polygraph is take simple questions that the test taker knows are true (what is your name, are you married etc....) to get a "baseline" and then if you are lying during later questions the readings jump up (except in the case of some hard core sociopaths, they don't have a reaction to lying at all).

    If you use methods to induce stress during the baseline questions such as "what is your name" and you make the readings jump (by tensing muscles or biting your tongue etc...) it will make the test inconclusive because there are signs of a high baseline during the truthful responses AND the possible lies, but the there is no really noticeable difference if you kwim. The differences in the readings are supposed to differentiate between truth and lies.

    The test takers can ALSO cause many folks to fail by "jacking them up" before the test starts. If they were to be confrontational or otherwise make the person feel defensive/upset BEFORE the test then even if even if the person answers truthfully when asked "Did you kill _____" the needles will jump and make it APPEAR that they are lying. It appears that way because the person is agitated and defensive after being intentionally provoked and emotionally upset.

    Just fyi if you ever have to take a polygraph and the tester tries to upset you in any way before the test starts refuse as they likely just caused you to fail it.

  3. #3
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    I've always had the feeling that polygraphy is in the same category as things like graphology and phrenology (thanks for that reminder, wfgodot ).

    I certainly wouldn't take one. Especially since I am fairly neurotic, and have had panic disorder for the past 20 years or so.

    Charging these guys with "wire fraud" and the tired, overused "obstruction of justice" is more than a bit of a stretch IMO. The biggest joke in the article, IMO, is the guy saying that "our nation's security will be enhanced" with these stings. GMAB. I'm tired of all this security theater.
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

  4. #4
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    Sonya, I did have that happen. I didn't realize it at the time, through out life when I tell the story of what happened that is what others have told me. I think that I am some times naive.
    While sitting in the chair with the monitor around my chest and the thing on my index finger, (oh yeah and a video camera) he then proceeds to say, I am going to ask you a series of ?'s and they will be yes or no answers. He then went on to say, like if I ask is marijuana illegal the answer is yes, correct?
    Well, I did pass the test, in fact I was polygraphed 3 times while employed at that job.
    My sister could not pass, when they asked if she lived at the address she lived at it showed her lying. When asked if she was married it showed her as lying. She said they had to bring in the old retired guy that was a softy at giving the test for her to pass. idk jmo
    Just know one thing, I am the majority.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the explanation, Sonya!

    I've read enough about polygraphs and their interpretation to consider the whole business "junk science".

    I honestly don't know what I would do were I innocent and asked to take a test. Saying "no" may make you a target of the police, but saying "yes" is like rolling the dice, IMO.

    Bottom line: considering the crap they DO admit in court, we ought to all be highly suspicious of anything they DO NOT.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, Sonya!

    I've read enough about polygraphs and their interpretation to consider the whole business "junk science".

    I honestly don't know what I would do were I innocent and asked to take a test. Saying "no" may make you a target of the police, but saying "yes" is like rolling the dice, IMO.

    Bottom line: considering the crap they DO admit in court, we ought to all be highly suspicious of anything they DO NOT.
    Always say no and never not take a lawyer with you LOL

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by defense101 View Post
    Always say no and never not take a lawyer with you LOL
    I've had friends who were cops and they were all stand-up guys.

    But I've come to the point where I agree with you 100%. On behalf of all of us, thank you for the wise advice.

    ***

    Question: let's say something happened to a relative or someone close to me (and I am totally innocent). Is there a productive way to say, "Look, officer, I want to help the investigation and as soon as my lawyer arrives, I will"?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I've had friends who were cops and they were all stand-up guys.
    Realize it isn't always about the cops! The cops may be great guys and think you are innocent yet that doesn't mean the DA won't charge you if they think they can WIN the case.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Realize it isn't always about the cops! The cops may be great guys and think you are innocent yet that doesn't mean the DA won't charge you if they think they can WIN the case.
    Thanks, Sonya, I do understand that. Even more often, police officers and DAs--like the rest of us--jump to conclusions based on what "usually happens". So, for example, if something happens to your spouse, get a lawyer ASAP.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, Sonya!

    I've read enough about polygraphs and their interpretation to consider the whole business "junk science".

    I honestly don't know what I would do were I innocent and asked to take a test. Saying "no" may make you a target of the police, but saying "yes" is like rolling the dice, IMO.

    Bottom line: considering the crap they DO admit in court, we ought to all be highly suspicious of anything they DO NOT.
    Quote Originally Posted by defense101 View Post
    Always say no and never not take a lawyer with you LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I've had friends who were cops and they were all stand-up guys.

    But I've come to the point where I agree with you 100%. On behalf of all of us, thank you for the wise advice.

    ***

    Question: let's say something happened to a relative or someone close to me (and I am totally innocent). Is there a productive way to say, "Look, officer, I want to help the investigation and as soon as my lawyer arrives, I will"?
    A dear friend, a police officer, informed me years ago to NEVER submit to a polygraph and to teach my sons not to, either. He said the results are too subjective and the science is not good.


  11. #11
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    Feds want prison time in unprecedented lie detector prosecution

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/3...#storylink=cpy

    WASHINGTON — Prosecutors are asking a federal judge to send a “strong message” by sentencing an Indiana Little League coach to prison for trying to teach as many as 100 people across the country how to beat lie detector tests.

    In a test case aimed at deterring other such polygraph instructors, prosecutors have urged the judge to sentence Chad Dixon to one year and nine months in prison, citing a “career of criminal deceit” that included teaching the techniques to child molesters, intelligence employees and law enforcement applicants........more......


    "The further we (as the human race) grow away from the natural world, the quieter the natural world becomes and the more pathological we become as a culture."........Bernie Krause

    The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy—a policy worthy of imitation......which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.......George Washington



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