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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Laguna Beach, CA

    Sex between students and teachers should not be a crime

    I don’t believe that all sexual conduct between underage students and teachers should necessarily be classified as rape, and I believe that absent extenuating circumstances, consensual sexual activity between teachers and students should not be criminalized. While I am not defending Judge G. Todd Baugh’s comments about Morales being “as much in control of the situation” — for which he has appropriately apologized — tarring and feathering him for attempting to articulate the context that informed his sentence will not advance this much-needed dialogue.

    I do think that teachers who engage in sex with students, no matter how consensual, should be removed from their jobs and barred from teaching unless they prove that they have completed rehabilitation. But the utter hysteria with which society responds to these situations does less to protect children than to assuage society’s need to feel that we are protecting them.
    If religious leaders and heads of state can’t keep their pants on, with all they have to lose, why does society expect that members of other professions can be coerced into meeting this standard? A more realistic approach would be to treat violations in a way that removes and rehabilitates the offender without traumatizing the victim. The intensity of criminal proceedings, with all the pressure they put on participants, the stigma, the community and media scrutiny, and the concurrent shame and guilt they generate, do the opposite of healing and protecting the victim.
    I seem to be running across more mainstream news articles, justifying or allowing for sex/rape of underage children.

    more at the link

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    It keeps changing!
    Uhmm... He does realize that there is a HUGE power imbalance going on between teachers and students? In fact, I think it should be MORE rape than just statutory rape when we find out a teacher and student have been having sex.

    I mean, the student probably doesn't feel safe rebuffing the teacher's advances, because the teacher basically has part of their academic future in their hands, they probably think that if they say no the teacher will fail them and they'll have to take that course all over again, and what happens when that teacher is the only one who teaches that course? Do they have to go to a different school? If they tell on the teacher will it just become a huge "He said, she said" fiasco and no one will believe them?

    Again, if the JUDGES think that these students aren't being raped or pressured into this, who will?

    When I was sexually assaulted I realized just how awful teachers are at dealing with it, I think that anyone who's ever in charge of students or minors should be taught what victim blaming is and when to shut their pie holes or go find a new job. But that doesn't happen.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Palm Springs
    I agree with you that better training of school personnel is important -- and may even be happening. The college where I taught merely "discouraged" sexual relations with students when I began; 14 years later such relations were banned altogether.

    But the blogger here is merely questioning whether the criminal justice system is the best way to handle such offenses? Is having Nancy Grace screaming about your case everyday at 5pm (even if she doesn't mention your name, your friends know who is who) really helpful for teens who have already been victims of an imbalance of power?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Emmi - in many cases the student is a willing participant too. In several cases I've read, the student has reached age of consent and has left home to live with the ex-teacher...

    Of course I am not saying it's right -- just pointing out that perhaps this is what helps muddy the waters. Also, it's much harder to see a 17 yo being taken advantage of than say, a 5yo.

    All the same, adults in positions of care over children whether 7 or 17 and three-fourths, have no right to take advantage of their charges and should go to prison for it. The children are in a vulnerable position, and children can and do develop crushes on the adults teaching them. For some kids, the teacher/student relationship may be the only point of stability and self-esteem in thier lives...

    It SHOULD be called rape, because that's what it is, by law. For a GOOD reason!

    I recall being besotted by a certain very handsome teacher, at age 13-15. It would have been very easy for this man to take advantage (of me, and probably half the female student population, we were all fangirls of him) but fortunately he was a dedicated professional and not pervy at all.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Palm Springs
    As far as I'm concerned, if the student has reached the legal age of consent, then an affair with a teacher is an HR issue, not a criminal one. Not everything that is wrong needs to be a crime; there are other ways to handle such problems, as the blogger points out.

    In the case in question, however, the student was 14. The age of consent for females in Montana is 16. So this would be a criminal issue even if they had met outside of school.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    The point is well made, though, that the criminal proceedings/public shaming may have contributed to the victim's suicide. I get what she's saying about removing some of the element of hysteria from the proceedings for the victim's sake, but don't agree with the decriminalization argument. Not sure how both things could be accomplished.

    (If you're about to respond with outrage to my post, please be sure you read past the first sentence. )
    “Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.” -- Terry Pratchett

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Imo, a minor is a minor for a reason. They aren't adults. A teacher of all people should be expected to stay within the law when around kids. If it's a crime then they chose to be a criminal. Why should teachers get a special pass when some 18-19 year old teens are registered as sexual offenders because of seeing a minor.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
    "He" is named Betsy, and claims in the article

    So I would say that this unusual individual does not realize a LOT of things, starting with the whole power imbalance you cited.

    I could go on, but I've got to think that the whole article is some sort of failed attempt at irony. I really hope it's that.
    could be wrong, but I think the "he" is referring to the judge, not the author.

    I didn't get the irony, I got "look it's going to happen so how can we not make a big deal and ruin the rapists lives"
    I don’t believe that all sexual conduct between underage students and teachers should necessarily be classified as rape, and I believe that absent extenuating circumstances, consensual sexual activity between teachers and students should not be criminalized.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    The show Pretty Little Liars has made this issue seem small. I hate that aspect of the show!

    If a teacher has sex with a student, (no matter the age) the teacher IS a sexual offender!

    We are talking about teachers here. We trust these people to teach and train our children.

    Even if the student is 16, the teacher is at least 22, without a Masters. Yet still, that teacher has been taught morality in their undergrad work.

    What 22 year old would think it ok to have sex with a 16 year old?

    That ALONE makes them a perv in my book!!!!
    There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are messengers of overwhelming grief.. and unspeakable love. --Washington Irving

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    I think the blogger is naïve and somewhat misinformed. The Catholic Church decided when they had a priest in a "position of power" that it shouldn't be criminalized. And what happened? Lots of kids with long lasting emotional scars from the rape, more emotional scarring from the feelings of abandonment and finally at last lawsuits and arrests of the Catholic officials.

    Personally I believe it should be illegal for any teacher- whether elementary, middle school, Jr or Sr high should be illegal. Also any vocational school, trade school or college that is teaching a child under the age of 21.

    Why? Position of power issues often cause problems with not only the person in the inferior position, but also for the persons around them. The teacher who is standing in front of the class paying attention to a one student is not paying proper attention to the other students in class. Not to mention the fears and jealousy that it stirs up with the other students. ("If I have an affair with him, will he give me all A's too?)

    It is sometimes difficult and awkward when it happens in a workplace. But that is where they are adults who hopefully have some experience in real life. Who know it isn't supposed to happen, but does and who hopefully have some coping skills to deal with it. Or who have the option to either take it higher or look for another job if they cannot deal with it. Students don't have that type of experience, stability or options.

    If a parent is paying for an education at a college or other school, I think they should raise a stink if they learn that a professor is having an affair with one of his students.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?

    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  11. #11
    Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Wise Old Owl is offline Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    South FloriDUH
    After reading this the new "song of the summer" fits right in....

    Blurred Lines - anyone?

    ANY teacher that takes advantage of ANY student is committing a crime, at least in my eyes.....................


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Anyone in a position of power that includes good Ol TEACHER; is a molester and or rapist who preys on said child. The adult knows better in this situ; and will be held accountable in our society. Period, end of story.
    Dont Be A Sheep

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    There was an interesting teacher/student case in KY that received a lot of attention. The student and his family refused to press charges against Ms. Jones the teacher.

    I believe that a teacher signs up to teach and that they are expected to be professional. That does not include having sex with students! To me, it's taking advantage of your position (no pun intended). I have posted link to a recent article about Ms. Jones' recently filed lawsuit.


    P.S. Ms. Jones and student plan to marry.

    You can choose to be bitter or better when handling your problems.

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    2/12/1968 -8/1992 RIP you are missed.

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