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  1. #16
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    In thinking about why a father would have his family in very remote areas...and thinking about the church the family joined after leaving the Mormon church...and in thinking about this whole thing...

    Something that a lot of small (dare I ay it? "Oddball") churches teach is the theories around the Apocalypse. Without getting into a huge debate, there are two schools of thought - pre-tribulation rapture, and post-Trib rapture. If the church taught post-trib, then the whole 'survivalist' mentality comes into play.

    One of the things taught in the apocaplyptic churches is that the US doesn't appear in any of the biblical teachings. Some would say that's because the US had declined and lost power, and/or ceased to exist in it's current form.

    If one takes all of that, and adds it to an 'oddball' family...I'd have to say that the choice of being near a border would be ideal for a man who believed that perhaps the US would not survive to the Apocalypse, and the only way to survive once the Great Tribulation began might be to escape into another country...and into the wilderness.

    It could also be shades of Manson - once the "race wars" break out, Canada would be a good place to flee to.

    Dunno...I don't believe that it's a coincidence, though. Just thinking out loud here.

    Best-
    Herding Cats
    When you find yourself in the position to help somebody, do not feel burdened. Rather, feel happy and blessed because God is answering that person's prayer through you. In that moment, you are God's Angel - His door to reach through and bring light to someone who is struggling in the darkness.

    Be God's Light. Be God's love. Be an answered prayer. Be God's Door.

  2. #17
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...community.html

    Inside the Amish world: Eye-opening photographs offer a rare glimpse at the usually off-limits religious community

    BBM
    Photographer Lottie Hedley visited the H- family on Smyrna Mills, northern Maine, near the Canadian border and her series 'Unbroken' shows M- and V- and their family of five hard at work sustainably and organically farming their 20 acres of land.

    The H-'s moved to what was an abandoned dairy farm in 1996,....

  3. #18
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    _______________________________________________

    RE:

    Imo, the last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety...

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s..._massey/7.html
    <sniped BM>

    Bones to Talk With

    It was clear that had he not been stopped in July 1993, he would have killed again. His greatest ambition, he wrote in these books, was to become America's most famous serial killer. "My goal is 700 people in twenty years."
    Or he wasn't working alone... For him to take his life the way he did, idk I still have questions about it. I mean, why right then & there? Plus, nothing at all about how he took Sam & disposed of her...and everything he put Sonny through was reported on nationwide...none of it makes sense. So why did he change his MO? It's baffling.

    Is it possible his part of the crime spree was over so he just went ahead & killed himself, but his game partner is still out there? If that's the case, could the other person be a she? Could he have killed himself to protect a child?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herding Cats View Post
    In thinking about why a father would have his family in very remote areas...and thinking about the church the family joined after leaving the Mormon church...and in thinking about this whole thing...

    Something that a lot of small (dare I ay it? "Oddball") churches teach is the theories around the Apocalypse. Without getting into a huge debate, there are two schools of thought - pre-tribulation rapture, and post-Trib rapture. If the church taught post-trib, then the whole 'survivalist' mentality comes into play.

    One of the things taught in the apocaplyptic churches is that the US doesn't appear in any of the biblical teachings. Some would say that's because the US had declined and lost power, and/or ceased to exist in it's current form.

    If one takes all of that, and adds it to an 'oddball' family...I'd have to say that the choice of being near a border would be ideal for a man who believed that perhaps the US would not survive to the Apocalypse, and the only way to survive once the Great Tribulation began might be to escape into another country...and into the wilderness.

    It could also be shades of Manson - once the "race wars" break out, Canada would be a good place to flee to.

    Dunno...I don't believe that it's a coincidence, though. Just thinking out loud here.

    Best-
    Herding Cats
    There are so many missing people from Saskatchewan. There's a massive reservation population there as well. I can't stop wondering if Israel Keyes could be responsible for several missing people in Canada while maybe hiding within one of the resvations.

  5. #20
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    Amish lands have many laws within their own lands.

    Aboriginal/Indians have many laws within their own lands.

    Coincidence that a papa Keyes moves into an Amish environment when Israel is young and Israel grows up to utilize Indian Reservations? They're very similar as far as protected grandfathered laws are concerned. If its a coincidence, then it's a VERY BIG one.

    Wonder if he was a conspiracist, or a radical in his beliefs. Maybe he was against government in general.

  6. #21
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    Jan 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl View Post
    Amish lands have many laws within their own lands.

    Aboriginal/Indians have many laws within their own lands.

    Coincidence that a papa Keyes moves into an Amish environment when Israel is young and Israel grows up to utilize Indian Reservations? They're very similar as far as protected grandfathered laws are concerned. If its a coincidence, then it's a VERY BIG one.

    Wonder if he was a conspiracist, or a radical in his beliefs. Maybe he was against government in general.

    Not proven as of this date Jersey*Girl but from the known church they were seen attending in Wash. State....they teach Racism, think todays Jews are not the ones in the Bible, they think they come from the Devil and No they don't like government in general...I believe it was called THE ARK

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl View Post
    Could he have killed himself to protect a child?
    SBM.

    Yes...but not the way you're thinking. I believe, based on interviews and on a general knowledge of his behavior post-arrest and repeated insistence that he get the death penalty "within one year" (iirc), that two things were in play here:

    1. The investigators were starting to get 'too close' to some of the more...(ah...disgusting is a poor word, but it's all I can think of...) disgusting and abhorrent murders. He may have believed that, in his "two people" mind, he wouldn't be able to withhold his information, and didn't want it to get into the public.

    2. Moreso than even that...I believe he didn't want the information getting out so that HIS DAUGHTER wouldn't be burdened by it in her life. We all know that once things are in the public, on the web, it will never come off.

    I believe he was trying to be the good father in the end, and spare his beloved little girl some of the more horrific details. He *knew* that it would be only by chance that other victims of his were discovered if he didn't talk, and relied on that when he killed himself, to keep the information quiet.

    I believe his victims are many dozens of people, and that we will never know all of them.

    That's what I believe...he killed himself because he realized that the investigation was going to continue, and that any little thing given would be put up onto the web eventually, and he didn't want his daughter to suffer. He had no remorse, but I think he actually felt a strong love for his little girl...perhaps like nothing he'd ever felt before. And he was doing what he was able to do to help her in her life. (And to me, that's a topic that needs to be dissected - how he was able to feel love for this little girl, but was completely and utterly psychopathic in every other area in his life...it's at great odds to how he'd behaved and lived; and this is incredibly intrguiging for me, and I'm sure investigators and other folks studying IK).

    Best-
    Herding Cats
    When you find yourself in the position to help somebody, do not feel burdened. Rather, feel happy and blessed because God is answering that person's prayer through you. In that moment, you are God's Angel - His door to reach through and bring light to someone who is struggling in the darkness.

    Be God's Light. Be God's love. Be an answered prayer. Be God's Door.

  8. #23
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    Sep 2008
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    10,266
    Quote Originally Posted by Herding Cats View Post
    SBM.

    Yes...but not the way you're thinking. I believe, based on interviews and on a general knowledge of his behavior post-arrest and repeated insistence that he get the death penalty "within one year" (iirc), that two things were in play here:

    1. The investigators were starting to get 'too close' to some of the more...(ah...disgusting is a poor word, but it's all I can think of...) disgusting and abhorrent murders. He may have believed that, in his "two people" mind, he wouldn't be able to withhold his information, and didn't want it to get into the public.

    2. Moreso than even that...I believe he didn't want the information getting out so that HIS DAUGHTER wouldn't be burdened by it in her life. We all know that once things are in the public, on the web, it will never come off.

    I believe he was trying to be the good father in the end, and spare his beloved little girl some of the more horrific details. He *knew* that it would be only by chance that other victims of his were discovered if he didn't talk, and relied on that when he killed himself, to keep the information quiet.

    I believe his victims are many dozens of people, and that we will never know all of them.

    That's what I believe...he killed himself because he realized that the investigation was going to continue, and that any little thing given would be put up onto the web eventually, and he didn't want his daughter to suffer. He had no remorse, but I think he actually felt a strong love for his little girl...perhaps like nothing he'd ever felt before. And he was doing what he was able to do to help her in her life. (And to me, that's a topic that needs to be dissected - how he was able to feel love for this little girl, but was completely and utterly psychopathic in every other area in his life...it's at great odds to how he'd behaved and lived; and this is incredibly intrguiging for me, and I'm sure investigators and other folks studying IK).

    Best-
    Herding Cats
    Thanks Herding Cats.

    I've read various views & profiles on serial killers that all cancel each other out lol. Every expert has their own darn opinion. Ugggh... Anyway, I thought a serial killer normally has no care for a soul other than their self? What you said above makes more sense to me, idk why...maybe it's bc I'm a female, a mother, and really need to believe this heinous person just had to kill himself bc he cared more about his little girl, therefore he was trying to spare her years & years of heartache. Makes me sick.

  9. #24
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    Continuing with the thought of him utilizing tribal lands, look at the areas of 2 caches below. Now search tribal lands / reservations in these specific areas. Coincidence?

    http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-r...r-israel-keyes

    FBI Requests the Public’s Assistance in Case of Serial Killer Israel Keyes
    FBI Anchorage
    August 12, 2013
    Special Agent Eric Gonzalez
    (907) 276-4441


    Snipped:
    Keyes admitted responsibility for robbing several banks during this time frame, two of which investigators have corroborated. Keyes used the proceeds from his bank robberies to pay for his travel, along with money he made as a general contractor. Keyes also admitted to traveling to various locations to leave supplies he planned to use in future crimes. Keyes stated he buried caches throughout the United States. The FBI recovered two caches buried by Keyes—one in Eagle River, Alaska and one near Blake Falls Reservoir in New York. The caches contained weapons and other items used to dispose of bodies. Keyes indicated the other caches he buried throughout the U.S. contain weapons, money, and items used to dispose of victims.

  10. #25
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    _______________________________________________

    RE:

    Imo, the last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety...

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s..._massey/7.html
    <sniped BM>

    Bones to Talk With

    It was clear that had he not been stopped in July 1993, he would have killed again. His greatest ambition, he wrote in these books, was to become America's most famous serial killer. "My goal is 700 people in twenty years."
    IMOO, I think he had rules in "theory" to prove his superior intellect to LE. Many of those, I am certain he learned along the way through trial and error and near misses. He could not control his impulses via willpower as usual with Sam. Something about her triggered the need to have her before he left for his trip.

    While IK stated he never targeted certain types of people and always changed things up, he might have had more "sentiment" with certain kills. He would have derived a different satisfaction from killing couples, men, and women. I think IK does have patterns, we just haven't found enough cases yet. I think his patterns lie in the fact he actually has preferences for different types of kills but they are cyclical. There seems to be a lot of killings when he visits family. Is family the excuse to travel to kill or is family the trigger that he needs to kill after/while visiting them? As awful he is and as detached his is from the what he was doing, he still IS human and humans still do have identifiable behaviors and patterns. That is what he hated about himself to separate into the two people. He was just like everyone else. He had to make himself more powerful and more special.

    Who did Sam remind him of that he needed to risk it all to have her before going on the cruise? Are there other missing or unsolved cases with young woman that have similar traits to him? Does she remind him of his ex? Or did he need to fill his urge to kill so he could appear normal on the cruise? Something derailed him to risk him all with Sam. I think she is a big clue to his patterns. I also think the things he declares such as no kids and dogs are also clues.


  11. #26
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky 1 View Post
    I understand what you are saying Snoopster, but will have to respectfully disagree. Remote land may be found that is not close to the borders, but I will guarantee you it is cheaper the closer you get to Canada. Cold, snowy, remote, few services, low taxes, few people = less cost. And I think that since IK grew up in those types of areas, they were where he was comfortable. IMVHO.
    I think the big draw to land near Canadian borders is the incredible beauty, isolation, and type of living. People like to live in small communities in the mountains where they can hunt, fish, ski, hike, etc. It is a lifestyle choice and in many ways an excellent way to raise kids. I have lived in mountain towns near borders and I loved it, not for any reason other than the lifestyle, lack of crowds, nature, etc. IMOO.

    I do think IK's job at Neah Bay was in many ways luck of the draw. I am not sure what kills he gained in the military, but, often those are not transferable to civilian life. So, most likely, getting that job was getting that job. He could have also gotten a job in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana…anywhere he would be hired for that type of work.

  12. #27
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    I feel sure the article linked below has been posted at some time either or both in the Samantha Koenig threads or the IK threads, but I just read it and didn't remember reading it before.

    While it centers a lot on Samantha's murder, I think it ranges wide enough to give a lot of insight into how IK operated, how he "was" -- so I thought I would post it here in the Profile thread.

    SPECIAL REPORT: When the killing ended: The capture of Israel Keyes

    When a camera caught a glimpse of a white Ford Focus in an Arizona bank parking lot, that set in motion police work that ended a serial killer's spree
    http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...nclick_check=1

  13. #28
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    Sep 2013
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    91
    I don't know if this is the thread I should post this or not. I have read possibly ever post ever posted here and I have never seen a reference to this. The docs at this link show IK was a suspect in a robbery and the victim is listed as Makah Tribal. His finger prints were sent for lab testing. Could this because they know his finger prints could be at the crime scene but would they have him listed as suspect?


    http://www.scribd.com/doc/273461778/...-Keyes-WSP-Lab

    If this link is not allowed I apoligize in advance.

  14. #29
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    Jul 2015
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    75
    I wouldn't be surprised if he was automatically considered a suspect due to his close relations to the Makah Tribal in Neah Bay. It's obvious nothing ever came of it, because from what I read, prior to his 2012 arrest, the only other time Keyes came other LE scrutiny was circa 2001.

  15. #30
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    Oct 2012
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    Youtube dark minds. Israel keyes. Also long island serial killer can be found on dark minds.

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