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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk2015 View Post
    1


    plus 2



    i don't fully accept the bus driver's statements as absolute truth, but it is what there is to work with. potential poisoning from the rag stuffed tailpipe would have effected her cognition and judgment. it seems fear and / or guilt based to ask somebody to not call 911. was she protecting somebody, the person who would be responsible for stuffing the tailpipe?





    i always thought the bus driver could have something to do with it

    say he quickly pulls her in his bus, brings her to his place and stashes her alive somewhere where she cant get out, and then returns to the bus where police find him and he makes up the story about how she asked him not to call the cops, and they check the bus and shes not there and just believe it


    or maybe a drunk cop on or off duty accidently hit her when pulling up to the scene and there was a massive cover up

    or maybe a friend at Umass killed her out of vegenance and then drove the car up there and got out and ran making it look like maura murray had disappeared





    or in between the cops getting there and the bus driver leaving, IK did in fact randomly run into her (long shot but anyone couldve randomly run into that situation much like the bus driver randomly ran into that situation) he saw an excellent spur of the moment opportunity and took her and that was that

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleuthtime View Post
    i always thought the bus driver could have something to do with it

    say he quickly pulls her in his bus, brings her to his place and stashes her alive somewhere where she cant get out, and then returns to the bus where police find him and he makes up the story about how she asked him not to call the cops, and they check the bus and shes not there and just believe it


    or maybe a drunk cop on or off duty accidently hit her when pulling up to the scene and there was a massive cover up

    or maybe a friend at Umass killed her out of vegenance and then drove the car up there and got out and ran making it look like maura murray had disappeared





    or in between the cops getting there and the bus driver leaving, IK did in fact randomly run into her (long shot but anyone couldve randomly run into that situation much like the bus driver randomly ran into that situation) he saw an excellent spur of the moment opportunity and took her and that was that
    i definitely disbelieve keyes had anything to do with her ordeal. in what little i've read it's clear that something was happening, she knew about it (to whatever degree) and she was actively planning for something (which involved her father).


    She emailed professors to say she’d miss the following week of classes due to a death in the family—a death that never happened.
    that's either a psychospiritual manifestation (she was foretelling her own death) or she and a partner were extremely intelligent, plotting and carrying out an elaborate scheme to fake an accident and then disappear with enough money to travel and get by (she emptied her bank account the afternoon before she went missing, while her father had withdrawn $4,000 from eight area ATMs in the preceding days.) the former is the more likely.

    On the Internet, Maura’s disappearance is the perfect obsession, a puzzle of clues that offers a tantalizing illusion—if the right armchair detective connects the right dots, maybe the unsolvable can be solved.

    http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/a...aura-murray/2/
    lololol, yeah exactly. it's a collaborative work, each person contributing in their own way. interesting case, thanks for introducing it. but no, i'd say keyes had nothing to do with her.

    edit: by the way, her father is the one who told her to stuff the tailpipe with a rag and the money he withdrew from ATMs was supposedly to go toward the purchase of another car. she had an accident shortly before her second accident, the day she disappeared.
    Last edited by mjk2015; 01-12-2017 at 05:20 PM.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk2015 View Post
    i definitely disbelieve keyes had anything to do with her ordeal. in what little i've read it's clear that something was happening, she knew about it (to whatever degree) and she was actively planning for something (which involved her father).




    that's either a psychospiritual manifestation (she was foretelling her own death) or she and a partner were extremely intelligent, plotting and carrying out an elaborate scheme to fake an accident and then disappear with enough money to travel and get by (she emptied her bank account the afternoon before she went missing, while her father had withdrawn $4,000 from eight area ATMs in the preceding days.) the former is the more likely.



    lololol, yeah exactly. it's a collaborative work, each person contributing in their own way. interesting case, thanks for introducing it. but no, i'd say keyes had nothing to do with her.

    edit: by the way, her father is the one who told her to stuff the tailpipe with a rag and the money he withdrew from ATMs was supposedly to go toward the purchase of another car. she had an accident shortly before her second accident, the day she disappeared.


    i never understoodd the theory that when they realized she lied about the death of a family member that she was planning something on her own or whatever, lying about something like that is something i or many students wold do in the case they are not prepared for an exam or dont wanna do some project on time and ar eplanning on going on a trip (like she couldve been) to get an extension on the assignment


    the accident, was a drunk driving case and maybe she was scared she was gonna get a DUI charge in NH and fled,


    or IK shows up at the scene sees her freaking out says oh come with me come with me ill get u out of her and avoid the dui charge and boom in his wrath



    she also may have critically injured a umass student in a hit and run and she couldve been drunk and fled the scene in the days prior and felt remorse and went to commit suicide or run away vasi was the kids name that got brain damage in a hit and run i believe

  4. #334
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    According to the timeline Keyes was in Utah when Maura Murray disappeared.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleuthtime View Post
    i never understoodd the theory that when they realized she lied about the death of a family member that she was planning something on her own or whatever, lying about something like that is something i or many students wold do in the case they are not prepared for an exam or dont wanna do some project on time and ar eplanning on going on a trip (like she couldve been) to get an extension on the assignment


    the accident, was a drunk driving case and maybe she was scared she was gonna get a DUI charge in NH and fled,


    or IK shows up at the scene sees her freaking out says oh come with me come with me ill get u out of her and avoid the dui charge and boom in his wrath



    she also may have critically injured a umass student in a hit and run and she couldve been drunk and fled the scene in the days prior and felt remorse and went to commit suicide or run away vasi was the kids name that got brain damage in a hit and run i believe
    keyes wasn't wrathful. he was a homicidal murderer, to say the least, but it wasn't wrath.

    keyes is ruled out. might want to start a new thread about maura if you'd like to continue to discuss her case.

  6. #336
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    why did keyes admit to the curriers murder, if he hadnt would anyone have linked him to that case? why did he admit to that murder and not others?

  7. #337
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    If I remember correctly, Keyes admitted to it because he DID think he'd be tied to it based on his computer usage (following the investigation, possibly commenting online, etc.)

    I'd be surprised if that's the only murder he followed online, but maybe he had a new computer or something and/or that was the only one he'd followed on a computer that he could actually be connected to? That's just a guess, but I think he did talk about getting more careless in staying incognito with stuff like that towards the end.

    Also there are already threads about Maura Murray's case. They are in the 2000s missing forum.

  8. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by dub View Post
    If I remember correctly, Keyes admitted to it because he DID think he'd be tied to it based on his computer usage (following the investigation, possibly commenting online, etc.)

    I'd be surprised if that's the only murder he followed online, but maybe he had a new computer or something and/or that was the only one he'd followed on a computer that he could actually be connected to? That's just a guess, but I think he did talk about getting more careless in staying incognito with stuff like that towards the end.

    Also there are already threads about Maura Murray's case. They are in the 2000s missing forum.
    Dub,
    I remember that from the audio tapes. He stated that he had gotten a new computer a year (?) or so before the Currier killings and there were searches of them on that computer. He reported that is the only reason he told LE about the Curriers. He stated that he knew they would be able to "connect the dots". Same thing wIth Sam, there was a google search of the lake he put her in (Manuska?). One of the detectives asked him what he did with the old computer, he replied that it was in the landfill. The detective asked him if he did anything to it, he replied that it went into his trailer and that anything that goes in there gets smashed. He added, "I don't know, if you found it you might get something off of it", but didn't sound too worried about it. He really did think multiple steps ahead of LE.

    In the audio tapes, he said he was only going to give them information on cases in which "you're going to connect the dots", and "only if I get what I want" (referring to the death penalty). He said that the only thing they had on him was his current computer and if they hadn't of caught him when they did, they wouldn't have had that, because he was planning on buying a new one for his girlfriend in the Spring and getting rid of that one, too. He said that they wouldn't be able to find anything else, no evidence, bodies, witnesses. Unfortunately, looks like he might have been right.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by dub View Post
    If I remember correctly, Keyes admitted to it because he DID think he'd be tied to it based on his computer usage (following the investigation, possibly commenting online, etc.)

    I'd be surprised if that's the only murder he followed online, but maybe he had a new computer or something and/or that was the only one he'd followed on a computer that he could actually be connected to? That's just a guess, but I think he did talk about getting more careless in staying incognito with stuff like that towards the end.

    Also there are already threads about Maura Murray's case. They are in the 2000s missing forum.
    i did a search for threads about her, didn't find anything (i didn't look too hard) but i just started a thread on her in Cold Cases.

    yep, info about the Curriers was found in his computer if i remember correctly.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk2015 View Post
    i did a search for threads about her, didn't find anything (i didn't look too hard) but i just started a thread on her in Cold Cases.

    yep, info about the Curriers was found in his computer if i remember correctly.
    Link to most recent Maura Murray thread, with links to previous threads in the opening post. This is in Missing but Not Forgotten, 2000's.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...php?p=12196334
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  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    Link to most recent Maura Murray thread, with links to previous threads in the opening post. This is in Missing but Not Forgotten, 2000's.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...php?p=12196334
    my thread in cold cases was closed after somebody posted a link to a thread about her. i did a general forum search but didn't look too hard. i did visit the thread somebody else had posted; most people believe she died. more and more, i believe she took off and she's living another life (and i expect that life would be criminal).

  12. #342
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    I think IK should have stayed in the Army. I don't know his motives for joining, but it wouldn't surprise me if he signed up because he was an adrenaline junkie who wanted to kill people. Unfortunately, he got out months before 9/11 and the kickoff of the Afghanistan war, so he never saw a day of combat. What if he had stayed in another couple of years and got a taste of war? I think he probably would have been hooked on deployment life. The M.O. with most his killings seemed very military-like and clandestine, almost like he was living out the fantasy of being a super secret hitman. Who buries caches, memorizes their grid coordinates, and then goes back to them years later to use in a job? Israel Keys Super-Spy Extraordinaire, that's who. You could argue that IK was just very calculating in his kills because he didn't want to get caught, but this guy was also running around robbing banks during this time. That's reckless, no matter how good you are at robbing banks. No, I think his primary drive was his need for adrenaline, the thrill of the kill, and the pride he took in his tactics and techniques that he'd honed. He shoulda stayed in.

  13. #343
    From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

    Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

    MOO of course.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occams Razor View Post
    From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

    Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

    MOO of course.
    My take on that stuff is some folks are not of a sound mind when they join. Quite frankly, some just slip through the cracks in the service, anyway.

    I don't think any of those mentioned in your post had a service record which was remarkable, or merely noteworthy, in any way.

    Upon autopsy, it was revealed Whitman had a brain tumor, which in some experts' opinions definitely contributed to what he did.

    Did Shawcross' service contribute to what he did? Absolutely not, he never saw combat, and came across as downright delusional in the interviews shared at trial. "Delusional" is the key word, here, and I'd imagine several of the vets mentioned in your post fit that description.

    Did Shawcross' military service contribute to what he did in Watertown, NY, back in the 70's? I believe sick people like him are screwed up well before they sign up to go into the service.


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