IA IA - KLUNDER, Michael J: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK

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Foxfire

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SapphireSteel said:
Tunnel vision? :waitasec:

I would say LE have investigated where the evidence took them.

The family are free and uncharged, so I don't know how you can say that the Evansdale Police Department, the BHCSO, the DCI and the FBI have all got tunnel vision.

They know things we don't, after all.

:moo:
Click to expand...

Yes, Tunnel vision, SapphireSteel.. The family is free and uncharged, as is the abductor of L & L...
SapphireSteel, I feel that I gave many reasons as to why there was tunnel vision in the L & L investigation. Throw in the ignoring of the public tips of the older white boxlike SUV as well as the failure to identify and investigate MJ Klunder, as a POI/suspect. Considering MJK's past criminal history which included multiple assaults, abductions, and violence against women/children, coupled with his ties to the area. Imo, the writing was on the wall, yet no one took the time or initiative to read it...
 
Foxfire said:
Yes, Tunnel vision, SapphireSteel.. The family is free and uncharged, as is the abductor of L & L...
SapphireSteel, I feel that I gave many reasons as to why there was tunnel vision in the L & L investigation. Throw in the ignoring of the public tips of the older white boxlike SUV as well as the failure to identify and investigate MJ Klunder, as a POI/suspect. Considering MJK's past criminal history which included multiple assaults, abductions, and violence against women/children, coupled with his ties to the area. Imo, the writing was on the wall, yet no one took the time or initiative to read it...
Click to expand...

I am also very disturbed MJK didn't cross the radar.

There is something very, very wrong with that and makes me question the "system" in Iowa.

I still can't consider MJK for this crime, for several reasons.

Apparently LE can't either. At this stage, anyway.

:cow:
 
For me personally I think MJK is way too much of a doof to pull off the abduction and murder of L&L. He's a bumbling idiot who has been caught in (as far as we know so far) EVERY SINGLE crime he tried to pull off.

He's plea bargained his way out of crimes that would have allowed him to be watched as closely as he should have been.

Call it a breakdown in the system, or whatever you want...he is an idiot who got caught every single time he tried to fulfill his urges.

Sure, he looks like he's be a shoe in when it comes to the fact that there were TWO girls taken...but remove THAT aspect of the two cases and you've got ZERO in common between L&L's case and any past crimes committed by him.

I think this crime against L&L was very well planned, I think the girls went willingly with their abductor and it was too late before they realized they were in serious danger and had no way to cry for help or get away when their final moments came upon them. :(
 
threecrazykids said:
For me personally I think MJK is way too much of a doof to pull off the abduction and murder of L&L. He's a bumbling idiot who has been caught in (as far as we know so far) EVERY SINGLE crime he tried to pull off.

He's plea bargained his way out of crimes that would have allowed him to be watched as closely as he should have been.

Call it a breakdown in the system, or whatever you want...he is an idiot who got caught every single time he tried to fulfill his urges.

Sure, he looks like he's be a shoe in when it comes to the fact that there were TWO girls taken...but remove THAT aspect of the two cases and you've got ZERO in common between L&L's case and any past crimes committed by him.

I think this crime against L&L was very well planned, I think the girls went willingly with their abductor and it was too late before they realized they were in serious danger and had no way to cry for help or get away when their final moments came upon them. :(
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. Some respectful questions re: what I bolded above. Sorry if all this has been discussed.

How do we know he has been caught every time? How do we know there are not other crimes out there that MJK has not been linked to?

Addressing the ZERO in common aspect, often in "random abductions", there is not anything in common except being in the wrong place at the wrong time, right, hence the word random?

Re: going willingly with their abductor, so did D and Kathlynn...it too was too late before they realized they were in serious danger...

I'm also curious as to why you think this was especially well planned...does this mean L and E were specifically targeted in your opinion? The bicycle thing reminds me of Mickey, and IIRC, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time?
 
margarita25 said:
Thanks for your response. Some respectful questions re: what I bolded above. Sorry if all this has been discussed.

How do we know he has been caught every time? How do we know there are not other crimes out there that MJK has not been linked to?

Addressing the ZERO in common aspect, often in "random abductions", there is not anything in common except being in the wrong place at the wrong time, right, hence the word random?

Re: going willingly with their abductor, so did D and Kathlynn...it too was too late before they realized they were in serious danger...

I'm also curious as to why you think this was especially well planned...does this mean L and E were specifically targeted in your opinion? The bicycle thing reminds me of Mickey, and IIRC, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Click to expand...

We don't know with 100% certainty that he has been caught every time. But - we know they have his DNA. And I believe that if there were a bunch of unsolved cases out there we would know by now if there were a match. I agree with Sapphire that there is nothing LE likes more than nailing someone to a wall in a crime like this. In the amount of time since his last crime there would certainly be match ups. That is just my opinion of course.

As far as ZERO in common I'm referring to the sloppiness of his past crimes and the fact that LE appeared to have no evidence left behind in L&L's case. They have stated as much. Are they fibbing? Possibly...but if MJK had any relation to the white boxy vehicle they wouldn't have had to beg the public for info. The family could provide that.

As far as the girls going with MJK, possibly. But I just don't think so. I think these girls were BOTH exposed to some shady, questionable people in their lives and were possibly even MORE cautious than other children who are not exposed to these elements. I just (for whatever reason) have a gut feeling that they wouldn't have gone and just dumped their bikes.

I do think the abduction was planned. I think the girls were told to go to where they were and it was no coincidence that they went missing from where they did.
 
http://www.forensicmag.com/news/2013/08/forensic-experts-pick-sides-research-shows#.UiPbWzZJOSp

Forensic Experts Pick Sides, Research Shows
08/29/2013

Forensic psychologists and psychiatrists are ethically bound to be impartial when performing evaluations or providing expert opinions in court. But new research suggests that courtroom experts’ evaluations may be influenced by whether their paycheck comes from the defense or the prosecution. The research is published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.

The findings reveal that experts who believed they were working for prosecutors tended to rate sexually violent offenders as being at greater risk of re-offending than did experts who thought they were working for the defense.

“We were surprised by how easy it was to find this ‘allegiance effect,’” says psychological scientist Daniel Murrie of the Univ. of Virginia. “The justice system relies often on expert witnesses, and most expert witnesses believe they perform their job objectively — these findings suggest this may not be the case.”
<sniped-read more>
 
From the start I did not think MK had anything to do with L & E. It wasn't because MK was disorganized in the other crimes he committed. It was just a feeling. I had mentioned the possibility that someone in MK's sick circle of friends might have had something to do with it though. From there ThreeCrazyKids found MK's facebook page and the friend who lived close to where L & E. was taken. There is no way of knowing if this person was checked out by LE. In my opinion, I still feel it was a sexual predator, but maybe that is something they will never know because of the decomp of the bodies. If I were looking for a drink, I'd go to the bar, etc etc. If I were a child molester it just makes sense to me that I would go to places where I might find children. The park, school bus stops, day care centers, and the like. All just an opinion.
 
Assuming that MJK did it, I have some multi-part questions for those who propose that he is the one:

1. Given the constraints of the timeline, how did the crime develop that day? Were the girls followed? How did MJK get to them on the bike trail given that insider knowledge is needed to know that the overgrown lane back there existed and was accessible? Did he know about it? Did he just discover it by plain luck? There has been a lot of speculation about MJK being familiar with where the bodies were discovered, but very little as far as I have seen about what if anything MJK knew about Evansdale.

2. Given the constraints of the timeline and the nature of the location where the bikes were found and taking into account the fact that the girls took off on their bikes despite the fact their juice was unfinished on the counter and a departure with Grandma was imminent, what specific evidence points to MJK being the perp rather than someone else such as a person the girls were hustling to the vicinity of the lake to meet?
 
Fukiyama said:
Assuming that MJK did it, I have some multi-part questions for those who propose that he is the one:

1. Given the constraints of the timeline, how did the crime develop that day? Were the girls followed? How did MJK get to them on the bike trail given that insider knowledge is needed to know that the overgrown lane back there existed and was accessible? Did he know about it? Did he just discover it by plain luck? There has been a lot of speculation about MJK being familiar with where the bodies were discovered, but very little as far as I have seen about what if anything MJK knew about Evansdale.

2. Given the constraints of the timeline and the nature of the location where the bikes were found and taking into account the fact that the girls took off on their bikes despite the fact their juice was unfinished on the counter and a departure with Grandma was imminent, what specific evidence points to MJK being the perp rather than someone else such as a person the girls were hustling to the vicinity of the lake to meet?
Click to expand...
Seriously, let's get down to brass tacks here. Suppositions can be thrown out all day, but I am never going to take MJK seriously as a suspect until these questions are answered. The most important question is just what did MJK know about Evansdale, its streets and back roads?

If all that can be assumed is based on the fact that MJK had a few RSO buddies in town, that's pretty flimsy. We don't know how long those guys have lived in town (if there is data out there, I'm all ears) or if MJK ever visited them when they moved into town.

In my mind, until LE reveals what it knows about MJK and his associates, he's just another possibility and not even a likely one given the unknowns involved.
 
"Over 3 Months Later, yet only Silence by Chief Kent Smock"

UPDATE: Police look for link between Dayton kidnapping and cousins' case
May 30, 2013 8:15 am

EVANSDALE, Iowa --- Evansdale's police chief hopes to know next week whether deceased sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Chief Kent Smock said investigators are retracing Klunder's steps in July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook-Morrissey and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December in a wildlife area in rural Bremer County.

Klunder's name didn't come up during the investigation into the girls' disappearance and deaths.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_4876f5ce-c875-11e2-a1ed-001a4bcf887a.html
 
Foxfire said:
"Over 3 Months Later, yet only Silence by Chief Kent Smock"

UPDATE: Police look for link between Dayton kidnapping and cousins' case
May 30, 2013 8:15 am

EVANSDALE, Iowa ---Evansdale's police chief hopes to know next week whether deceased sex offender Michael Klunder is linked to the slaying of two cousins who vanished last year while riding bikes.

Chief Kent Smock said investigators are retracing Klunder's steps in July, when 10-year-old Lyric Cook-Morrissey and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins were abducted. Their bodies were found in December in a wildlife area in rural Bremer County.

Klunder's name didn't come up during the investigation into the girls' disappearance and deaths.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_4876f5ce-c875-11e2-a1ed-001a4bcf887a.html
Click to expand...

If police knew that Klunder was responsible for the murders of Elizabeth and Lyric, they would have announced that the case was closed. It's not closed, so apparently it was not possible to connect the murders of Lyric and Elizabeth with Klunder.
 
otto said:
If police knew that Klunder was responsible for the murders of Elizabeth and Lyric, they would have announced that the case was closed. It's not closed, so apparently it was not possible to connect the murders of Lyric and Elizabeth with Klunder.
Click to expand...

otto, if MJK was ruled out in E & L's abduction, this info would have been revealed.


http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ansdale-cases-headed-to-fbi-crime-lab/article

Evidence in Dayton, Evansdale cases headed to FBI crime lab
7:12 PM, Jun 21, 2013

&#8220;It&#8217;s predominately evidence that would have DNA relevance,&#8221; Meyers said. &#8220;We&#8217;ve been working for the last week or so to determine what evidence would meet the necessary submission for the FBI crime lab.&#8221;

Investigators are looking for possible connections between kidnappings two kidnappings in the past 12 months that both involved the abduction of two girls. Police say Michael James Klunder, 42, kidnapped two girls from Dayton on May 20 and killed one, Kathlynn Shepard, 15, before killing himself. The other girl managed to escape.

Officials are trying to determine whether Klunder played a role in the abduction and murder of two cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, who disappeared from Evansdale on July 13.
 
Foxfire said:
otto, if MJK was ruled out in E & L's abduction, this info would have been revealed.


http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ansdale-cases-headed-to-fbi-crime-lab/article

Evidence in Dayton, Evansdale cases headed to FBI crime lab
7:12 PM, Jun 21, 2013

“It’s predominately evidence that would have DNA relevance,” Meyers said. “We’ve been working for the last week or so to determine what evidence would meet the necessary submission for the FBI crime lab.”

Investigators are looking for possible connections between kidnappings two kidnappings in the past 12 months that both involved the abduction of two girls. Police say Michael James Klunder, 42, kidnapped two girls from Dayton on May 20 and killed one, Kathlynn Shepard, 15, before killing himself. The other girl managed to escape.

Officials are trying to determine whether Klunder played a role in the abduction and murder of two cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, who disappeared from Evansdale on July 13.
Click to expand...

There are two possibilities:

1. possible to connect Klunder to the murders
2. not possible to connect Klunder to the murders

If Klunder had been conclusively connected to the murders, the case would be closed. It is not closed, so it seems clear to me that investigators have not been able to connect Klunder with the murders at this time.

Should police make an announcement stating that they have not yet been able to connect Klunder to the murders? Can we not assume that since the case is still unsolved, evidence implicating Klunder is not available?

I suppose it's possible that evidence is still being analyzed. I'm sure it would be a relief for all of Evansdale to know that the case is solved, so if Klunder is responsible, people will know. Obviously, police won't keep that a secret.
 
otto said:
I suppose that I'm looking at it in terms of whether Klunder can be held responsible. At this time, it does not look like he is responsible, so the case is still unsolved. The information about the white, boxy vehicle stopped near the entrance to Maiden Lane is helpful. If Klunder had access to that type of vehicle, police would know it. If Klunder took trophies, police would know it and if anything was missing from the children, police would be looking for those items in Klunder's possessions.

It seems to me that until such time that Klunder can be conclusively connected to the murders, police have to continue investigating.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Also, I believe that if there was any possibility that MJK had/could have had access to a white boxy vehicle they wouldn't be pleading to the public for that info.

The family, friends, close neighbors, etc. would have been questioned (again...keeping it on the DL :floorlaugh:) before they ever went public asking for tips.

If the vehicle could have been stolen by MJK I am certain that anyone who had a vehicle stolen (and then returned) would have called LE immediately following his abduction/murder of Kathlynn. Reports of a missing/stolen white boxy SUV were probably checked before they went public with their pleas. :please:

This of course assuming the person KNEW their vehicle was stolen/borrowed. If not...there isn't anything they could call in anyway.
 
Foxfire said:
<sniped-Read More>

Otto, thank you for the timeline and for your efforts..

As we all know, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Imo, when the tips was received about the boxlike SUV during canvassing. Priority should have been given to these tips. A red flag should have been immediately raised, imo..

Police re-canvass Evansdale for missing girls
October 18, 2012
Cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 11, and Elizabeth Collins, 9, disappeared July 13 while on a bike ride. Their bikes and Elizabeth’s purse and cell phone were found on a recreational trail along Meyers Lake. After an extensive search of homes and wooded areas and a partial draining of the lake over the following week that turned up nothing, authorities declared the case an abduction.

“Nothing was found the really stood out or was promising,” Smock said. “If we knew where they were at, we’d go knocking on that door. We’re still very hopeful; still very positive.”

Authorities visited between 125 to 150 homes. A rumor in town that air surveillance was ongoing is false, Smock said.

The decision was made two weeks ago to canvass the area again. Nothing in particular triggered the latest ground search, he said.

“We continue to dig for more information,” Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson said. “We continue to search for details that might have been overlooked.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_2c659ab8-1914-11e2-8c55-001a4bcf887a.html
______________________________

While the number of sex offenders who abduct and kill children is low, those offenders “are the worst of the worst” who need to be feared and understood – and communities need to be ready with swift response to search for those kids when they are reported missing.

According to a study done in the state of Washington and with the U.S. Department of Justice, 44 percent of children will be dead in the first hour after abduction; 74 percent are killed within three hours.
Only 1 percent survive one day. Forty percent die before anyone reports them missing.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/va...cle_4d47027a-058c-11e3-a66f-0019bb2963f4.html
_____________________________

For a week, law enforcement authorities classified the investigation as a missing persons case.

That changed on Friday, and now the case is called an abduction, something the girls’ families have pushed for since July 13.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...ieves-missing-Iowa-girls-alive?nclick_check=1
Click to expand...

Friday, July 20

7 a.m., Interviews and polygraphs continue.
7 a.m., FBI dive team examines Meyers Lake.
8 a.m., Law enforcement searches specific areas within 15 mile radius.
8 a.m., DCI team continues with sex offenders.
10 a.m. and 4 p.m., Press briefings.
Noon, Vehicle checkpoints.
5 p.m., Focus turns fully to abduction as other causes were eliminated.


I don't think that we know what led police to believe that the tip about the white, boxy vehicle was related. Wasn't there a report that an additional tip about the vehicle came in much later? Perhaps two tips about the same vehicle is the reason that the information was released to the public.
 
The one reason I didn't expect him to be involved is that I wouldn't expect him to leave them where they were found. If he were going to take them 20 miles away and didn't live in the area, why not take them farther away to a place where he could spend as much time with them as he wanted without worrying about any searchers running across him? I know 20 miles is farther away than most searches go initially, but it doesn't make much sense to take them to a place that might have people close enough to hear them (fishermen, hikers, whatever) in the middle of the day so I believe they were killed somewhere else and then brought there.

If they were taken farther away before dying, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to head closer to their homes to get rid of the bodies. Because of that, I tend to the murder actually happened somewhere between the two sites. Unless MJK knew someone who lived in a fairly secluded place between there, I just don't see it being him. It would be nice if it was him so other girls aren't at risk, but I don't know that they could ever prove it was him (unless he had a partner who confesses). Sorry if this is as jumbled as it sounds to me. MOO
 
Confusion said:
The one reason I didn't expect him to be involved is that I wouldn't expect him to leave them where they were found. If he were going to take them 20 miles away and didn't live in the area, why not take them farther away to a place where he could spend as much time with them as he wanted without worrying about any searchers running across him? I know 20 miles is farther away than most searches go initially, but it doesn't make much sense to take them to a place that might have people close enough to hear them (fishermen, hikers, whatever) in the middle of the day so I believe they were killed somewhere else and then brought there.

If they were taken farther away before dying, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to head closer to their homes to get rid of the bodies. Because of that, I tend to the murder actually happened somewhere between the two sites. Unless MJK knew someone who lived in a fairly secluded place between there, I just don't see it being him. It would be nice if it was him so other girls aren't at risk, but I don't know that they could ever prove it was him (unless he had a partner who confesses). Sorry if this is as jumbled as it sounds to me. MOO
Click to expand...

It makes sense. Klunder lived in the opposite direction, and he had the privacy of several pig farms for assaulting and hiding the girls remains. He didn't need to take his victims to a public area known for hunting and birding.
 
Foxfire said:
Yes, Otto, one of the citizens contacted BHCSO to verify that the tip had been followed up on...It was months later and almost a year. It had been overlooked.. More than one tip was received on the white boxlike SUV. It was witnessed at two different locations at the park..by 2 or 3 different people..
Click to expand...

Hundreds of tips were received - we know that. That's an awful lot of information to sift through. It looks like it was the third, much later tip that caused police to see if it matched other tips - and that was enough for police to release the information to the public.

Thanks for the update about the white, boxy vehicle (I had missed some of the details).

"Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.
...

Arbutus Avenue meets up with the bike trail near Meyers Lake, where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found. Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs. The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found. All three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.

...
Two of these witnesses came forward with this information during canvassing. The other tip came in several months later because the person thought someone had already brought this up.

"The one that kind of got the ball rolling was actually several months later. They didn't know if it would be important and that's kind of what we want to stress to the public is any piece of information can be important," said Roehrkasse.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale
 
If I had to guess, it looks like this information was released because there were two sightings of this vehicle closer to the East end of Arbutus (neither here nor there), but the third sighting placed the same vehicle near the woods where the bikes were located. I'm guessing that this was the significant point: that it was loitering at one place on Arbutus and then reportedly seen exactly where the bikes were found.

"A combination of new and old information prompted law enforcement Monday to renew a request for the public&#8217;s help in the ongoing investigation of the disappearance and deaths of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins.

Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock said the volume of information investigators have had to combine and go through has slowed the process.

&#8220;As you can imagine, we literally have thousands and thousands and thousands of pages to go through,&#8221; he said.
...

Smock said the newly released information was a combination of old and new reports.

&#8220;Earlier on, within the first two or three months of the girls going missing, as we were interviewing people ... a couple of different people identified the vehicle as being on Arbutus,&#8221; Smock said. &#8220;A few months ago, we received some information from another party who had seen a similar vehicle on the east side of the lake.&#8221;

The latest information came from a woman who assumed police had already been told about what she saw, but they had not, Smock said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html
 
Nov. 15, 1986 &#8212; Attacks ELG, 15, in Kensett.

Feb. 22, 1989 &#8212; Attacks a co-worker at her home

December 15, 1991 -- Flashes his car lights to stop a woman driving alone. When she does, he forces her into his car and assaults her. When a passing motorist spots the woman flailing her arms, and follows Klunder's car, he pushes the woman out on the road.

December 16, 1991 -- Kidnaps two 3-year-old girls from the front yard of a day care center in Charles City, and takes them to Worthy County where they are found later the same day in a trash receptacle. Both had been choked, one severely.

May 20, 2013 &#8212; Lures 12-year-old D and 15-year-old Kathlynn Shepard of Dayton, into his truck by promising them summer jobs mowing lawns. When he says that he will drive them home to ask their parents for permission, the girls enter his car. He then drives to a remote area and assaults both girls, killing Kathlyn Shepard. D escapes, and Klunder commits suicide.

Many more details at this link.
http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_b448708a-db89-11e2-bf27-0019bb2963f4.html

Police say Klunder hanged himself following the escape of one of two girls he had kidnapped in Dayton as they walked home from a school bus stop.
Twelve-year-old DH was able to break the bonds around her hands, run away and alert authorities to the kidnapping.

Kathlynn Shepard, 15, however, could not escape. Her body was found June 7 in the Des Moines River following extensive searches.

Shepard died from multiple sharp and blunt force injuries about the head, according to Iowa State Chief Medical Examiner Julie Goodin.
Click to expand...
ELG suffered similar wounds when Klunder attacked her in 1986.

Read more here
http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_36b8ec80-db89-11e2-acb2-0019bb2963f4.html
 
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