09-06-2013, 02:51 AM #1
GA - Jasper Co., Fem Skeletal UP11111,12-17, along logging road, Sep'97Case Report - NamUs UP # 11111
Case number 97-6202
Date found September 30, 1997 00:00
Date created March 20, 2013 19:47
Date last modified April 02, 2013 07:27
Date QA reviewed
Local Contact (ME/C or Other)
Agency Jasper Cnty Coroners Ofc
Name Ashley Garrish
Estimated age Adolescent
Minimum age 12 years
Maximum age 17 years
Weight (pounds) , Cannot Estimate
Height (inches) , Cannot Estimate
Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only
Logging Road, Monticello, Jasper Co. (f)ound off Highway 83 along a logging road in Jasper Co. very near the Monroe Co. border. Area where remains were recovered has been excavated for sand for years. Skull and accompanying bones were found in a wall of this pit at a level approx. 3 ft. beneath the surface of the ground. Possibly historic?
Dental information / charting is available and will be entered later
DNA - Sample available - Not yet submitted
Please note that the skeletal remains were found in 1997, but apparently were not entered into NAMUS until March 2013.
Last edited by Backwoods; 09-06-2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: add note
09-06-2013, 02:51 AM #2
This is my first time doing this, so if I am doing something wrong, please lead me gently onto the right path.
In the thread for Carlene Tengelsen in Missing But Not Forgotten, 1970s missing, a few of us have been looking at the UP for which I just posted NAMUS info above. (I checked and did not see anywhere this UP had been added to the Unidentified threads before, but I could have missed something.)
Here is Carlene's thread here at WS:
GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Carlene's Charley Project:
Carlene's DOE Network:
One of us (not me) on Carlene's thread has a little experience at submitting possible matches and has, I think, submitted a few possibles for Carlene before through DOE. Those were ruled out on dentals, I believe -- please note NAMUS says charting for Carlene is not available, but physical notes in some of her profiles do mention a chipped front tooth and braces, which she had.
We think this UP needs to be looked at for Carlene because the find location in Jasper Co., GA is quite close to Macon, Bibb Co., GA, from where Carlene went missing.
We all have questions, though!
We are seeing that this UP is "possibly historic" -- would that mean something such as, for example, a long-ago Native American burial -- or could it just as well mean from 1972 (when Carlene disappeared)?
We are thinking that, if it means something much older, no sign of braces must have been noted. The UP does have the notation that dental charting is available but not entered. We are hoping that means at least some teeth are present -- but since, apparently, Carlene's charting is not available, that may not be of much help.
On NAMUS, Carlene's DNA is noted as:
Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete
(We hope that means her DNA is in CODIS -- but there have been questions about that since the few ruleouts on her through DOE were on dentals, when apparently she does not have charting on file. No DNA ruleouts that we know of.)
The UP's DNA notation is: Sample available - Not yet submitted
We are at a bit of a loss about what, if anything, to do next. Any comments, guidance, tips that might help?
Thanks so much!
Last edited by KateB; 04-21-2015 at 07:50 PM. Reason: repair url tag.
09-06-2013, 03:24 AM #3
Thought of another thing I meant to touch on:
NAMUS has "other" on both the race and ethnicity for the UP.
What would that mean, probably?
Is it possible that, before the DNA is processed, they simply don't have enough to go on to say, for sure? More like "undetermined"?
09-06-2013, 10:22 AM #4
Starnge question as I am not too familiar with braces. Was the material used in 1972 the same as today? Could they have deteriated? Been removed by the perp?
09-06-2013, 03:10 PM #5
I know that perps have been known to remove teeth, so I would think removing braces might happen -- seems like it would be quite a process, though.
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