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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    central Georgia, USA

    GA - Jasper Co., Fem Skeletal UP11111,12-17, along logging road, Sep'97

    Case Report - NamUs UP # 11111
    Case Information
    Status Unidentified
    Case number 97-6202
    Date found September 30, 1997 00:00
    Date created March 20, 2013 19:47
    Date last modified April 02, 2013 07:27
    Date QA reviewed
    Local Contact (ME/C or Other)
    Agency Jasper Cnty Coroners Ofc
    Phone 706-468-4943
    Case Manager
    Name Ashley Garrish
    Phone 404.270.8151
    Estimated age Adolescent
    Minimum age 12 years
    Maximum age 17 years
    Race Other
    Ethnicity Other
    Sex Female
    Weight (pounds) , Cannot Estimate
    Height (inches) , Cannot Estimate

    Body conditions
    Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only

    Logging Road, Monticello, Jasper Co. (f)ound off Highway 83 along a logging road in Jasper Co. very near the Monroe Co. border. Area where remains were recovered has been excavated for sand for years. Skull and accompanying bones were found in a wall of this pit at a level approx. 3 ft. beneath the surface of the ground. Possibly historic?

    Dental information / charting is available and will be entered later

    DNA - Sample available - Not yet submitted
    more at: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11111

    Please note that the skeletal remains were found in 1997, but apparently were not entered into NAMUS until March 2013.
    Last edited by Backwoods; 09-06-2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: add note

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    central Georgia, USA
    Hello, everyone.

    This is my first time doing this, so if I am doing something wrong, please lead me gently onto the right path.

    In the thread for Carlene Tengelsen in Missing But Not Forgotten, 1970s missing, a few of us have been looking at the UP for which I just posted NAMUS info above. (I checked and did not see anywhere this UP had been added to the Unidentified threads before, but I could have missed something.)

    Here is Carlene's thread here at WS:

    GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Carlene's NAMUS:

    Carlene's Charley Project:

    Carlene's DOE Network:

    One of us (not me) on Carlene's thread has a little experience at submitting possible matches and has, I think, submitted a few possibles for Carlene before through DOE. Those were ruled out on dentals, I believe -- please note NAMUS says charting for Carlene is not available, but physical notes in some of her profiles do mention a chipped front tooth and braces, which she had.

    We think this UP needs to be looked at for Carlene because the find location in Jasper Co., GA is quite close to Macon, Bibb Co., GA, from where Carlene went missing.

    We all have questions, though!

    We are seeing that this UP is "possibly historic" -- would that mean something such as, for example, a long-ago Native American burial -- or could it just as well mean from 1972 (when Carlene disappeared)?

    We are thinking that, if it means something much older, no sign of braces must have been noted. The UP does have the notation that dental charting is available but not entered. We are hoping that means at least some teeth are present -- but since, apparently, Carlene's charting is not available, that may not be of much help.

    On NAMUS, Carlene's DNA is noted as:
    Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete

    (We hope that means her DNA is in CODIS -- but there have been questions about that since the few ruleouts on her through DOE were on dentals, when apparently she does not have charting on file. No DNA ruleouts that we know of.)

    The UP's DNA notation is: Sample available - Not yet submitted

    We are at a bit of a loss about what, if anything, to do next. Any comments, guidance, tips that might help?

    Thanks so much!
    Last edited by KateB; 04-21-2015 at 07:50 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    central Georgia, USA
    Thought of another thing I meant to touch on:

    NAMUS has "other" on both the race and ethnicity for the UP.

    What would that mean, probably?

    Is it possible that, before the DNA is processed, they simply don't have enough to go on to say, for sure? More like "undetermined"?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Springfield, MO
    Starnge question as I am not too familiar with braces. Was the material used in 1972 the same as today? Could they have deteriated? Been removed by the perp?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    central Georgia, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by 4SAM View Post
    Starnge question as I am not too familiar with braces. Was the material used in 1972 the same as today? Could they have deteriated? Been removed by the perp?
    I think titanium is sometimes used, but usually stainless steel. Carlene's in 1972 most likely would have been stainless steel. I am not sure whether there would be any substantial deterioration under burial conditions.

    I know that perps have been known to remove teeth, so I would think removing braces might happen -- seems like it would be quite a process, though.

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