GUILTY UK - Boy, 12, for rape of 6yo girl, Suffolk, 2013

SilkySifaka

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I don't believe in sentencing children as adults but this is light even for me. especially with no remorse. On the other hand 12 is the worst time for an impressionable child to be with hardened criminals for years.

Prosecutor Simon Newell said the boy was asked what he felt about the impact of his crimes on his victim and replied: 'I don’t care how she feels.'

District Judge Celia Dawson told him that she was not sending him to a secure youth offending unit because she did not want him to be in the company of ‘older and more sophisticated criminals’.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...court-ordered-pay-just-300.html#ixzz2fpCVpkM6
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I don't believe in sentencing children as adults but this is light even for me. especially with no remorse. On the other hand 12 is the worst time for an impressionable child to be with hardened criminals for years.

It happens here in the US ALL the time.

Actually, the young perps here don't have to pay!
 
I don't have high blood pressure, but if I did, these are the types of stories that would send it through the roof!
 
It happens here in the US ALL the time.

Actually, the young perps here don't have to pay!

I thougt they threw the book at kids who rape 6 year olds. At least a year in juvie is what i would expect, here or in Britain. On the good side it sounds like he will be getting counselling and his parents turned him in so they might be getting him more help than even the court ordered young offender program. I guess i am torn. I see the judges reasoning and even agree with it to a certain extent. Cause the only thing you will have if he was put in juvie for a few years is a hardened criminal. And he is on that cusp where he is still moldable. Yet i feel horrible for the 6 year old victim, he pled to 2 counts of rape in an earlier hearing (same victim)
 
I don't have high blood pressure, but if I did, these are the types of stories that would send it through the roof!

Fortunately for you, and most unfortunate for the victims.., because the perp is a minor.. .. These stories aren't often made public. They're handled behind closed doors, under strict confidentiality laws. Most don't even make it to a court room. CPS files everywhere are loaded with cases like this.
 
For the first time ever, (and I hope the last), I think a juvenile sentence isn't harsh enough. Its not even a wish to see him punished, its just that I think the judge's reasoning is bullcrap.

Children's secure units in Britain are in no way an unsuitable environment for a 12 year old, nor are they an environment in which he would be exposed to hardened criminals. The childrens' units in the UK are actually one of the best parts of their justice system and have an excellent rehabilitation rate.

The home she's leaving this boy in, on the other hand, is an environment where he has somehow learned to be a rapist.

As for the £300 "compensation", that's just an insult.
 
I hope the little girl is getting some counseling too! I think the fine should have been ordered to be paid for that purpose. To pay directly to her or parents just seems strange to me. Since the boy 'didn't care' how she felt it should have been impressed to him the damage he caused her not only physically, but emotionally.
 
Unbelievable! Rape a child and pay $300?
And what is this about him not being able to contact her for 12 months? How about NEVER contacting her again?
 
Unbelievable! Rape a child and pay $300?
And what is this about him not being able to contact her for 12 months? How about NEVER contacting her again?

This boy needs to just disappear.
Tired of hearing about rapists getting fines and a slap on the wrist. What about the girl 300 is going to fix her emotional problems for life?
 
For the first time ever, (and I hope the last), I think a juvenile sentence isn't harsh enough. Its not even a wish to see him punished, its just that I think the judge's reasoning is bullcrap.

Children's secure units in Britain are in no way an unsuitable environment for a 12 year old, nor are they an environment in which he would be exposed to hardened criminals. The childrens' units in the UK are actually one of the best parts of their justice system and have an excellent rehabilitation rate.

The home she's leaving this boy in, on the other hand, is an environment where he has somehow learned to be a rapist.

As for the £300 "compensation", that's just an insult.

Thanks button isn't enough. :goodpost:

Two separate instances, the six year age gap, the term 'forced', and the boy's callousness strongly indicate that he's already a predator and not just acting out of natural curiosity.

Therefore - yeah, he needs an eye kept on him for sure, because hello, future abduction rapist/serial killer...

I'd hope somebody looks into his home life too. Sometimes sociopaths are just born, and to the nicest people. But I believe the vast majority of sociopaths who go on to commit violent and/or sexual crimes are -made- by their early environment.
 
"I don't care how she feels." Well, A for honesty, I suppose. :eyeroll:

Completely agree about looking into his home life and environment. He learned this stuff somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if he has also been molested.
 
This boy's behavior and also his "I don't care attitude" indicate that he's been abused, too. Not necessarily sexual but definitely emotional. This being said, is -of course- no excuse for what he's done, but every perpetrator has once been a victim. Some kids remain in their victimhood, others try to (re)gain control/power by offending others. Now he's still that young, he will hopefully get the right support to rehabilitate.
 
This boy's behavior and also his "I don't care attitude" indicate that he's been abused, too. Not necessarily sexual but definitely emotional. This being said, is -of course- no excuse for what he's done, but every perpetrator has once been a victim. Some kids remain in their victimhood, others try to (re)gain control/power by offending others. Now he's still that young, he will hopefully get the right support to rehabilitate.

That is not true.

Sometimes kids are simply evil.
 
This boy's behavior and also his "I don't care attitude" indicate that he's been abused, too. Not necessarily sexual but definitely emotional. This being said, is -of course- no excuse for what he's done, but every perpetrator has once been a victim. Some kids remain in their victimhood, others try to (re)gain control/power by offending others. Now he's still that young, he will hopefully get the right support to rehabilitate.

While I agree with you that some perpetrators of violent crimes were at one time victims themselves, I will say that this is not at all a given..IMO nope, not even near is it a given that EVERY PERP was once a victim of abuse themselves.. Just like all victims of abuse do NOT in turn become perpetrators of abuse ..so, too is it that all perpetrators are NOT all victims of abuse., There are individuals who are evil.. There are individuals who were raised in loving, stable homes that still choose to perpetrate violence on others even when they, themselves have not been abused..

In my strong opinion it is not a forgone conclusion that all perpetrators of violent crimes were once themselves the victim of abuse..not at all.. Too many times it is not as simple as looking back and pointing out the Aha! Moment of when/what the event/time was that caused the perp to become the violent abuser he/she has become.. The formula for the abuse cycle is a proven fact, but that cycle is something completely different and totally separate from what is being claimed here..
Violent perpetrators who have inflicted violent abuses on innocent victims are NOT ALWAYS victims of abuse themselves.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**
 
That is not true.

Sometimes kids are simply evil.

Exactly. Some people with really bad childhood marred by abuse do not turn out evil, while other people from stable families turn out evil. Some people are just screwed up. :crazy:

Sounds like a budding psychopath, ala Eric Harris or Joran van der Sloot.
 
It's also true, however, that a vast number of serial killers and serial sexual predators did indeed suffer some form of abuse in childhood.

The thing is, abuse in and of itself does not automatically mean a child will grow up a killer or rapist. That is perfectly true.

BUT it's also true that a child born with the kind of brain chemistry or neural configuration that tips the scales toward sociopathy is way more likely to commit violent crime if they have also been exposed to abuse and violence.

There's plenty of sociopaths out there leading successful, rape and murder-free lives, also, I should add.
 
There are individuals who were raised in loving, stable homes that still choose to perpetrate violence on others even when they, themselves have not been abused..

How do you know that for sure? Abuse is a highly painful matter that most people rather remain silent about than open up and talk. Many are ashamed, blame themselves for what has happened to them and prefer just to forget (suppression) instead of having to deal with it.

Alice Miller, a psychoanalyst and the author of numerous books about child abuse, wrote

Today there can be no possible doubt that evil exists and that there are people who are capable of extremely destructive behavior. Any lingering doubts on this score will be swept away by an evening spent in front of the television. But the fact this is so is no confirmation of the widespread assertion that there are people who are born evil. On the contrary. The deciding factor is the reception they were given when they came into the world and the way they were treated later. Of course they have the genetic blueprint they inherited from their parents, and it may determine what kind of temperament a child will have, what inclinations, gifts, predispositions, but character depends crucially upon what a person is offered soon after his birth and over the first years of life.

The well-known American pediatrician Dr. Brazelton once filmed a group of mothers holding and feeding their babies, each in her own particular way. More than 20 years later he repeated the experiment with the women those babies had grown into and who now had babies themselves. Astoundingly, they all held their babies in exactly the same way as they had been held by their mothers, although of course they had no conscious memories from those early years. One of the things Braselton proved with this experiment was that we are influenced in our behavior by our unconscious memories. And those memories can be life affirming and affectionate or traumatic and destructive.

It is frequently asserted that there are genes that drive some people to commit evil deeds even if they have had "lots of love" in their childhood. I have yet to come across such an individual. All the childhood histories of serial killers and dictators I have examined showed them without exception to have been the victims of extreme cruelty, although they themselves steadfastly denied this.

And in this they are not alone. Large sections of society are apparently determined either to deny or to ignore these facts. Taken to its logical conclusion, this genetic theory ought to be able to explain why, 30 years before the advent of the Third Reich, Germany should have brought forth millions of children whose genetic make-up was so badly contaminated that in adulthood they were ready and willing to lend themselves to Hitler's atrocities without turning a hair. Why has there never been such an accumulation of rogue genes in Germany before or since? It is a question I have asked repeatedly and I have never received an answer. The reason is simple. There is no answer. Hitler's henchmen were victims of their upbringing. They belonged to a generation of children who had been exposed to brutal physical correction and humiliation and who later vented their pent-up feelings of anger and helpless rage on innocent victims. Safe in the knowledge that they were doing so with the Führer's blessing, they were finally able to give free rein to those feelings without risk of punishment. Today children are brought up very differently in Germany. But wherever cruelty and humiliation still plays a part in parenting, those methods are faithfully reflected in the behavior of young people denying the pain of the humiliation they have been through, selecting and attacking scapegoats, and advancing harebrained ideological reasons for their depredations. The gene theory is just as incapable of explaining evil as the changeling legend or the death instinct.

According to statistical surveys (see Olivier Maurel, La Fessée, La Plage, 2001) 90% of the people alive today believe that children need a "good" smacking from time to time if anything is to come of them. The truth is very different, and it is high time we faced up to it. Evil exists. But it is not something that some people are born with. It is produced by society, every day, every hour, unceasingly, all over the world. It starts with the treatment meted out to newborn babies and carries on in the parenting methods practiced on small children. Such children may BECOME criminal at a later stage, if they have no helping witness to turn to. In their childhood years, serial killers and dictators all have one thing in common: they had no such witnesses to turn to for help.

Why are we so anxious to find innate evil tucked away in our genetic make-up? Quite simply because most of us were beaten when we were small and fear nothing so much as the revival of the pain caused by the humiliation we went through. At the same time, we were told that it was all for our own good. So we learned to suppress that pain. But the memory of those humiliating beatings was stored away in our brains and our bodies. We loved our parents, so we believed them when they told us it was for our own good. Most of us still believe it and go around asserting that one cannot bring up children without blows, slaps, and smacks - in other words, without resorting to humiliation. And then there is no way out of the vicious circle of violence and denial of the humiliation inflicted on them. The need for revenge, reprisal, punishment lives on within them. The rage suppressed in childhood is transformed into murderous hate. Religious and ethnic groups are only too willing to provide the ideologies justifying the cultivation and projection of that hate. Humiliation is a poison that is difficult to exterminate because it is used for extermination and the production of new humiliation that fuels the proliferation of violence and masks the underlying problems.

For a maltreated child, denying suffering is the only hope of survival in an unbearable situation.

Source: www.alice-miller.com/articles_en.php?lang=en&nid=47&grp=11
 
How do you know that for sure? Abuse is a highly painful matter that most people rather remain silent about than open up and talk. Many are ashamed, blame themselves for what has happened to them and prefer just to forget (suppression) instead of having to deal with it.

Alice Miller, a psychoanalyst and the author of numerous books about child abuse, wrote











Source: www.alice-miller.com/articles_en.php?lang=en&nid=47&grp=11


It's known by polygraphing adult sex offenders. There are more than a few studies online. I'll edit and add them later as I only have a short amount of time this morning.

Many claiming to have been abused were not and those that were tended to lie and deny it.
 
Thank you, Linda. :)

Still I find it difficult to "prove" whether someone has ever been abused or not. You never know what a single soul is going through. May I quote Franz Kafka at this point:

When you stand in front of me and look at me, what do you know of the griefs that are in me and what do I know of yours. And if I were to cast myself down before you and weep and tell you, what more would you know about me than you know about Hell when someone tells you it is hot and dreadful? For that reason alone we human beings ought to stand before one another as reverently, as reflectively, as lovingly, as we would before the entrance to Hell.

The main problem is, regarding mental and emotional abuse, that the victim is often not even aware of the abuse itself, due to its often subtle nature. There might be gaslighting as well, the child is being manipulated in order to doubt his own memory, feelings and cognition.

So if someone isn't even conscious of all that, a lie detector will only bring light into things resp. it's only able to "prove" what the person is already aware of, isn't it?
 

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