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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocuriouscats View Post
    2) Kolker says things that implies he has LE connections, such as: "They're just begging the public for more information." (meaning LE) Whaaaaattttt? Wish I could have asked about that because I don't see LE working with the public AT ALL.
    He must have talked to LE more than the average bear, as part of doing the book.

    3) Kolker say the bodies were found "intact." His word, not mine. He says something like "shrouded" or "wrapped" in burlap (sorry, can't remember his exact phrase). To me, this was always something I wanted to know...were the bones jumbled up like they had been thrown or dumped or were they laid out - "intact" even, like they were "Placed" there with some care or even arrangement of the bodies?
    Ditto.

    4) Kolker says something about Amber being "closest to the beach." Again, not sure why, but I find that interesting.
    I missed that. I'll have to go back and listen again. I wasn't able to give it my full attention previously.

    6) Kolker quotes Rifkin (Joel) as saying they were the perfect victims. They weren't. They had families they were involved with and who reported them missing. The other vics on OP don't seem to have that. Why? That's one of the big questions in my mind - makes me think they are separate cases -JMO (for now haha).
    That's a good point.

    It could also suggest someone new to the online prostitution world and assuming that the women escorting online were as destitute as a street worker like Jessica Taylor (RIP). Which suggests a late adoption of the Internet, if true, which would suggest someone older than we've been thinking?

    Aleph, I think you are addressing the "rumors" that the perp kept his vics for sometime, and dumped them all at once. I'm hoping to catch up tonight! Def want to know more about that. Are there rumors of a woman screaming on Long Island? I don't remember that. Chilling if true.
    Oh, no rumors of anyone screaming and, indeed, Kolker was only speculating that the bodies were all dumped at once. It's just a prospect that I hadn't considered before. I was speculating about the kind of thing that the LISK might have considered sloppy enough to spook him into dumping the bodies, which suggests someone might know something about Amber or that maybe someone came across some evidence, like someone screaming.

    I also love how Kolker calls the boyfriends "pimps". True that. IMO LE should have put all the pimps and johns behind bars and squeeeeeeezed them for info.
    I agree. I hope they have some females working on this case. It sounds like an old boys' club where the men on the force don't want to poke too deeply into the prostitution underworld, lest they expose some of their own people.

  2. #17
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    I agree. I hope they have some females working on this case. It sounds like an old boys' club where the men on the force don't want to poke too deeply into the prostitution underworld, lest they expose some of their own people.[/QUOTE]

    If only they had some females with rank and authority and ethics. Males even, but yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm not holding my breath. I think that brings us back to what Hawk tells us - SFPD is corrupt and incestuous and God help anybody who crosses them or tryies to interfere with their business. Bet they didn't count on W/S though. Can't touch me (I hope) 'cause I live in Cali. They can't touch many of us actually. Their influence soes not extend that far. That's a beautiful thing.
    IMO the West Coast has so many people new to the country who are not mired in old-school relationships, so that it's not easy to get us to go away or accept the okey doke (is that even a word or phrase? lol) Not too many agencies would admit that their own fire truck ran over a victim of a plane crash, KWIM? Dare I say it? We still have a mostly free press here. I like it.
    I still have hope the Feds are working this.
    Last edited by twocuriouscats; 10-08-2013 at 08:43 PM. Reason: sorry, my quote post aren't working, prob operator error - I'm doing 5 things and trying to type too!

  3. #18
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    If the killer saved them and they were swathed, it makes me wonder if there was some mummification. Perhaps the swathing was only to keep the bodies, to a degree, "intact."
    The facts are now buried amongst theory, opinion and rumor.

  4. #19
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    I can't search very well with the phone, but I'm certain that a quick read of the first reports will show that the bodies were put there at different times over years based on decomposition and vegetation growth.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcme View Post
    I can't search very well with the phone, but I'm certain that a quick read of the first reports will show that the bodies were put there at different times over years based on decomposition and vegetation growth.
    Yeah, I kinda remember that, but when you have the time mcme, I would appreciate a link or two. I'll go back and see what I can find...

  6. #21
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    Dubble post sorry.
    Last edited by Theforeigner; 10-09-2013 at 06:37 PM.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcme View Post
    I can't search very well with the phone, but I'm certain that a quick read of the first reports will show that the bodies were put there at different times over years based on decomposition and vegetation growth.
    Here is the info:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/ny...dies.html?_r=0

    Published: December 14, 2010

    Commissioner Dormer said they were spread over a quarter mile, each 500 feet from the next. But they were placed there at different times, judging by their varying degrees of decomposition, he said.

    “Obviously, it does not look like they were dumped at the same time,” he said. “A couple of them were there a year, or year and a half, or maybe two years. Not recent.”




    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/ny.../06bodies.html

    Published: April 5, 2011

    Investigators said that although they were placed there at different times, the four women were all in their 20s and that they had all advertised for clients on Craigslist.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me

  8. #23
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    But they would decompose at different rates due to when they died. Vegetation growth and indigenous insect activity as well as the condition of the bones would indicate how long they laid in the brush.
    The facts are now buried amongst theory, opinion and rumor.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just K View Post
    But they would decompose at different rates due to when they died. Vegetation growth and indigenous insect activity as well as the condition of the bones would indicate how long they laid in the brush.

    And not for nothing these guys, Dormer included, talk out their ass when a microphone is thrown in front of them I've noticed. I'm leaving it open in my mind.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theforeigner View Post
    Here is the info:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/ny...dies.html?_r=0

    Published: December 14, 2010

    Commissioner Dormer said they were spread over a quarter mile, each 500 feet from the next. But they were placed there at different times, judging by their varying degrees of decomposition, he said.

    “Obviously, it does not look like they were dumped at the same time,” he said. “A couple of them were there a year, or year and a half, or maybe two years. Not recent.”




    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/ny.../06bodies.html

    Published: April 5, 2011

    Investigators said that although they were placed there at different times, the four women were all in their 20s and that they had all advertised for clients on Craigslist.

    Thank You TF - you are always helpful!


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just K View Post
    But they would decompose at different rates due to when they died. Vegetation growth and indigenous insect activity as well as the condition of the bones would indicate how long they laid in the brush.
    I totally agree.

    So where did the rumors about them being dumped at the same time originate?
    Question is not directed at you JK, just throwing it out there.
    I would have liked to ask Kolker about that.

  12. #27
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    I'm going to throw this out there too:

    Mr. Kolker, if you are reading here, please id yourself and open up for some questions to be asked...what's the harm?
    Regards to you either way - I liked the book - and I regret missing your interview with Trisha...sigh...
    Last edited by twocuriouscats; 10-10-2013 at 12:23 AM. Reason: I mean Tricia...spelling...

  13. #28
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    LE has given little to no details re: the condition of any of the finds. FGS, they won't even release pictures of any clothing found or the blanket that the toddler was wrapped in. Pictures of these items and the burlap, especially if it was bag-like or marked in some way, might have drawn more tips from the public.

    IMO, SPD, is not looking for assistance. Up until now, it appears they have not wanted assistance from the public.
    The facts are now buried amongst theory, opinion and rumor.

  14. #29
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    BTW, where is Hawk?
    The facts are now buried amongst theory, opinion and rumor.

  15. #30
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    Hello all. I'm Bob Kolker, and this is my first post on WS. I've been reading the site carefully for a while now, and as I said on the podcast to Tricia, I'm very impressed with the discussions and grateful for the insights. I'm also grateful that some of you have read the book and have had such nice things to say about it and have come back with even more questions. If this book can keep the discussion going, that's great.

    About the bodies and the placement: What I said about the bodies being placed all at once is not a "rumor." It's a theory I brought up during the podcast. I have no idea if it's true or not, but it seems logical to me, since I doubt the killer would want to be wasting time rooting around looking for old bodies while dumping new ones. Of course, I don't know if this theory is true. And you are quite correct to say that the theory does not fit with what Dormer said about the bodies on 12/14/10. Personally -- and again, this is just my opinion -- I don't think anything said those first couple days can be seen as definitive. You may recall that Suffolk County also said early on that they all were dead at least a year, something that proved not to be accurate in the case of Megan and Amber. So when it comes to those early statements, I feel all bets are off.

    By the way, when I say nothing they said in those early days is definitive, that may also apply to the burlap and the condition of the remains. Were they wrapped in burlap, or was burlap just found nearby all of them, or just some of them? Were the skeletons completely stripped of all flesh, or not? I found I can only rely on what we all have read in the news accounts, since the police have stopped talking about it. (The family members I interviewed all do believe, based on what police told them, that the skeletons were more or less intact and they were in burlap. So that's helpful, but again, until the police offer more detail, we're all left to speculate.)

    While I'm here, I should also clear up something from an earlier post on this forum. I never meant to imply that Cruz is the father of Megan's daughter. When I said she wanted to have another child with him, I meant another child for *her*. Sorry to be imprecise.

    Also, when I said something to the effect that LE is "just begging the public for more information," I did not mean to imply any special knowledge of the police. I was talking about what Varrone said on 48 Hours in July when asked if the police had any leads. His only response was a plea that people who know something come forward with more information. You can take that response any number of ways, but personally, to me, that suggests they have little to go on at the moment.

    Thanks again. I'm happy to be part of the conversation from here going forward, when time allows.

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