JonBenet: A Closer Look

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Meech

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A new team of investigators takes a closer look at the murder of JonBenet Ramsey resulting in the identification of a key suspect and pointing away from JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey.

Court TV 10pm E/P
 
o my gosh, i learned a lot of that show - first of foremost, no one involved in the making of that show believe the ramsey's did it. very slanted viewpoint. i did learn the ramsey's are now impoverished - patsy's cancer has returned and they have no insurance AND john still does not have a job.
 
londonPI said:
o my gosh, i learned a lot of that show - first of foremost, no one involved in the making of that show believe the ramsey's did it. very slanted viewpoint. i did learn the ramsey's are now impoverished - patsy's cancer has returned and they have no insurance AND john still does not have a job.
Click to expand...
I will believe that when I see her Medicaid card! They don't know what impoverished is.
 
we used to live a stones throw away from charlevoix....let me tell you, there is NO home there we could afford. i find it hard to believe they are broke. someone was talking about the ramsey's being in florida looking for a place. how does one buy another home with no $$?
 
I followed the case in great depth until Judge Carnes issued a ninety-two page report in 2003 that basically exonerated the Ramseys.

What I leanred tonight is that Helgoth had Hi-Tec boots, had a stun gun like the one investigators think was used on Jon Benet and dressed in black to stalk people at night; i.e., ninja style, It was mentioned too that Helgoth had buddies who were also into martial arts.

What the investigation did not link up is the fact that not one person in a million can tie a professional garrote knot like the one on the garrote that was used to strangle Jon Benet.

Now, here is the kicker and the link to Jon Benet. One of the favorite weapons of Ninjas is the garrote.

Though Helgoth's DNA does not match that found on Jon Benet, it is pretty clear that the /martial arts/Ninja/garrote link cannot be set aside and that the killer's DNA was decidely left at the crime scene.

For the first time, I am now of the mind that the case is solvable.
 
Hello: haven't posted her in a long while, but the Special tonight brought me back.


IMO, if there was an outside perpetrator, there are just way to many unexplained events, actions, attitudes and evidences concerning the Ramsey's that would be unanswered.

In other words: if one of them did the crime, there are really no unanswered questions. There is no evidence at all of someone breaking into their house that night and commiting the crime.

But...if an outsider did it, there are way too many....."but then, what about....and ..... and why.....?
 
Wudge said:
I followed the case in great depth until Judge Carnes issued a ninety-two page report in 2003 that basically exonerated the Ramseys.

What I leanred tonight is that Helgoth had Hi-Tec boots, had a stun gun like the one investigators think was used on Jon Benet and dressed in black to stalk people at night; i.e., ninja style, It was mentioned too that Helgoth had buddies who were also into martial arts.

What the investigation did not link up is the fact that not one person in a million can tie a professional garrote knot like the one on the garrote that was used to strangle Jon Benet.

Now, here is the kicker and the link to Jon Benet. One of the favorite weapons of Ninjas is the garrote.

Though Helgoth's DNA does not match that found on Jon Benet, it is pretty clear that the /martial arts/Ninja/garrote link cannot be set aside and that the killer's DNA was decidely left at the crime scene.

For the first time, I am now of the mind that the case is solvable.
Click to expand...


I thought the show tried to hard. Helgoth's DNA didn't match. Then the show brought in the dance academy assault on another little girl and strongly, strongly implied that they were linked. Entering into a home, hiding there, surprising a young girl in bed, sexual assault, ninja costume . . . Yet that assailant left behind DNA, too, and if it had matched the Jonbenet DNA, the show certainly would have mentioned that. So what, now there are 3 people involvled? Helgoth, the ninja guy, and the Jonbenet DNA guy? It didn't hang together, IMO.
 
nellicat said:
I thought the show tried to hard. Helgoth's DNA didn't match. Then the show brought in the dance academy assault on another little girl and strongly, strongly implied that they were linked. Entering into a home, hiding there, surprising a young girl in bed, sexual assault, ninja costume . . . Yet that assailant left behind DNA, too, and if it had matched the Jonbenet DNA, the show certainly would have mentioned that. So what, now there are 3 people involvled? Helgoth, the ninja guy, and the Jonbenet DNA guy? It didn't hang together, IMO.
Click to expand...



There are not that many people alive who even have the expertise to tie a professional garrote knot.

Garrotes are used by a few groups in South America, and by those who might have received training from or studied a few martial arts groups, such as and particulary Ninjas.
 
Wudge said:
I followed the case in great depth until Judge Carnes issued a ninety-two page report in 2003 that basically exonerated the Ramseys.

What I leanred tonight is that Helgoth had Hi-Tec boots, had a stun gun like the one investigators think was used on Jon Benet and dressed in black to stalk people at night; i.e., ninja style, It was mentioned too that Helgoth had buddies who were also into martial arts.

What the investigation did not link up is the fact that not one person in a million can tie a professional garrote knot like the one on the garrote that was used to strangle Jon Benet.

Now, here is the kicker and the link to Jon Benet. One of the favorite weapons of Ninjas is the garrote.

Though Helgoth's DNA does not match that found on Jon Benet, it is pretty clear that the /martial arts/Ninja/garrote link cannot be set aside and that the killer's DNA was decidely left at the crime scene.

For the first time, I am now of the mind that the case is solvable.
Click to expand...

OMG...OMG. Wudge, this was the worst, most lying, deceptive, false piece of crap there every was.

Your post is going to send me over the edge Wudge.
 
I'm not buying this "Closer Look" show.
One piece of so-called evidence that tells me they are not any closer to solving JonBenet's murder was with Helgoth's boots.
They say the sole matches the prints left in the mold on the floor of the Ramsey's basement where JonBenet was found.
A close up photo of the boots showed a substance that was almost the same color of the stuff on the basement floor. So what. If it looks like something from the floor of the Ramsey's basement, why not do a test and find out if the substance on Helgoth's boots matches what's on the basement floor. That would be very positive evidence. Why didn't we hear the results of a test of that kind? Either they didn't test the substance or they did test it and it was not a match. So saying it looked alike was the only way to tie this guy to being in the basement. This does not sound like a very full investigation to me.
JMO
 
Oh yes, and that garrott, it doesn't look professional to me. It looks like some kid twisted robe around a stick and tied a loop. Even I can do that messy of a job.
jmo
 
Tricia said:
OMG...OMG. Wudge, this was the worst, most lying, deceptive, false piece of crap there every was.

Your post is going to send me over the edge Wudge.
Click to expand...

What did the program say about Helgoth and/or the other abductions or potential abductions that was false?
 
azwriter said:
Oh yes, and that garrott, it doesn't look professional to me. It looks like some kid twisted robe around a stick and tied a loop. Even I can do that messy of a job.
jmo
Click to expand...


Then take that picture down to a martial arts studio that teaches Ninja techniques and ask them if it looks to be tied by someone who has been trained to tie a garrote knot.

I did that many years ago, and the answer I got back was that whoever tied that knot knew how to tie a garrote knot.
 
Wudge: Your claim they said the stun gun in the picture was like one supposedly used on Jon-Benet is flat wrong...they said it was NOT the same...they also forgot to mention that the one they claim WAS used has an electrode distance that has been shown diffrent from the bruises on Jon-Benet.

This show ignored evidence right and left. It seemed designed to pander to those who are unknowing of forensics. I want to know more about this drop of blood that mysteriously shows up on the panties years later after the biggest names in forensics in the country had already examined the evidence...I am now somewhat skeptical since it is presented in a program that is little more than an infomercial.

For example, the "suicide" becomes a "murder" which confirms the ransom note's "two gentlemen". Sorry, the note is not to be accepted as facts of the case. (They also forgot to mention other implications of the "note"). In fact, neither suicide or murder would be likely from a shot to the lower left side. Here's a guy who plays with guns all the time...playing with guns leads to accidents, and THAT is the most likely scenario.

Wish I had more time since this program needs a comprehensive rebuttal.
 
Lacy Wood said:
Wudge: Your claim they said the stun gun in the picture was like one supposedly used on Jon-Benet is flat wrong...they said it was NOT the same...they also forgot to mention that the one they claim WAS used has an electrode distance that has been shown diffrent from the bruises on Jon-Benet.

This show ignored evidence right and left. It seemed designed to pander to those who are unknowing of forensics. I want to know more about this drop of blood that mysteriously shows up on the panties years later after the biggest names in forensics in the country had already examined the evidence...I am now somewhat skeptical since it is presented in a program that is little more than an infomercial.

For example, the "suicide" becomes a "murder" which confirms the ransom note's "two gentlemen". Sorry, the note is not to be accepted as facts of the case. (They also forgot to mention other implications of the "note"). In fact, neither suicide or murder would be likely from a shot to the lower left side. Here's a guy who plays with guns all the time...playing with guns leads to accidents, and THAT is the most likely scenario.

Wish I had more time since this program needs a comprehensive rebuttal.
Click to expand...

My recollection was that they said the stun gun "in the picture" was not the make that they suspected had been used on Jon Benet but I thought they said that he also owned another stun gun from they manufacturer they had suspected, though I could be wrong.
 
Wudge said:
What the investigation did not link up is the fact that not one person in a million can tie a professional garrote knot like the one on the garrote that was used to strangle Jon Benet.
Click to expand...


Wudge,

That was NOT a garrote wrapped around JonBenet's neck. Garrotes look nothing like that. Millions of ex-military personnel have been trained to make and use a garrote, including myself. It takes only a minute or two to make a real garrote.

A garrote is simply a length of wire or rope with a handle on each end. ALL garrotes must have two handles, such as a knot or a loop tied at each end, in order to keep the perpetrator's grip from slipping as the struggling victim is is strangled from behind.

The device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was not designed as a garrote. It had just one handle (the stick) on one end and a ligature on the other end and would likely require the cooperation of the subject to even get it properly positioned into place. IMO it was designed to be used in erotic asphyxiation and autoerotic asphyxiation -- extremely dangerous breath contol games used during violent masturbation and other forms of extreme sex.

The device was NOT designed as a garrote, even though it was eventually used to strangle JonBenet. It was too elaborate and wouldn't make a bit of sense if originally intended to be used as a garrote. Garrotes are simple killing devices and can usually be fashioned immediately from almost anything at hand ; even a scarf or belt if no rope or wire is available. Calling the elaborate device wrapped around JonBenet's neck a "garrote" is a misnomer.

It was an erotic asphyxiation device, and even John Ramsey agrees with that assertion.

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
Wudge,

That was NOT a garrote wrapped around JonBenet's neck. Garrotes look nothing like that. Millions of ex-military personnel have been trained to make and use a garrote, including myself. It takes only a minute or two to make a real garrote.

A garrote is simply a length of wire or rope with a handle on each end. ALL garrotes must have two handles, such as a knot or a loop tied at each end, in order to keep the perpetrator's grip from slipping as the struggling victim is is strangled from behind.

The device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was not designed as a garrote. It had just one handle (the stick) on one end and a ligature on the other end and would likely require the cooperation of the subject to even get it properly positioned into place. IMO it was designed to be used in erotic asphyxiation and autoerotic asphyxiation -- extremely dangerous breath contol games used during violent masturbation and other forms of extreme sex.

The device was NOT designed as a garrote, even though it was eventually used to strangle JonBenet. It was too elaborate and wouldn't make a bit of sense if originally intended to be used as a garrote. Garrotes are simple killing devices and can usually be fashioned immediately from almost anything at hand ; even a scarf or belt if no rope or wire is available. Calling the elaborate device wrapped around JonBenet's neck a "garrote" is a misnomer.

It was an erotic asphyxiation device, and even John Ramsey agrees with that assertion.

BlueCrab
Click to expand...


The knot was obviously not an overhand knot, and the knot was tied by someone with special training, which could include Rangers, Seals, GB, etc.. Nevertheless, the device was meant to strangle someone in the fashion of a garrot -- as Ninjas practice -- though it could have been a sexually related device. If a sexual fruitcake was involved, and that is certainly very possible, you simply cannot tell what they might have going on in their warped minds.

In any event, the knot and "garrot-like" instrument would relate to what this nut by the name of Helgoth was into; i.e., Ninja arts or the like. And like the DNA that findamentally exonerates the parents, it, too, points well away from them.
 
Wudge said:
And like the DNA that findamentally exonerates the parents, it, too, points well away from them.
Click to expand...


Wudge,

It's interesting to note that you refer only to "the parents" as being exonerated by the DNA. Why didn't you include Burke in that exoneration statement? After all, it has been unofficially reported that Burke's DNA exonerates him too. Or are you also aware that, in Colorado, it is lawful to lie about any evidence that incriminates a nine-year-old?
 
BlueCrab said:
Wudge,

It's interesting to note that you refer only to "the parents" as being exonerated by the DNA. Why didn't you include Burke in that exoneration statement? After all, it has been unofficially reported that Burke's DNA exonerates him too. Or are you also aware that, in Colorado, it is lawful to lie about any evidence that incriminates a nine-year-old?
Click to expand...


Make it the family.
 
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