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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    Another member contacted me via email with a theory on a case out of Florida that happened in April 1982. He believes that DeB could be involved with this missing person. I just have not been able to find any evidence of this. Also, it is strange that I had a recollection of being in Dunkn Donuts around that same period of time and the same area that she lived in and the person in front of my mom and I had a counterfit $20. It was a male that's all I remember. I was 15 at the time.

    I'm just curious if there is any proof he was there at the time.

    Wow, that fake-$20 at the Dunkin Donuts is weird!

    The Secret Service compiled detailed records of his whereabouts at many different times from his collection of notes, receipts, etc., but I don't think they ever publicly released an overview of that.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    I also have a curiosity about his child that he forced the wife to give up for adoption. Do we know what state that was in? Year?


    Edit- Never mind on this one I just found the answer. The baby was a girl born Summer of 61 it looks like according to "Beyond Cruel"
    Also, at the end of Beyond Cruel is a follow-up on the child who was adopted and her sister, I believe.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    Is there any evidence that he was in Florida?
    When the Secret Service caught DeBardeleben in 1976 for passing a fake $100 bill at a Montgomery County shopping mall - the SS went looking for DBLN printing press. They found it in his Arlington County Va home - they also found a RAPE room - tons of home made pornography on the wall (what happened to that evidence????) and loaded guns, and half-eaten rotting sandwiches and the Secret Service did what about the rape evidence that they found?

    NOTHING!

    August 1, 1975 Tereas Lyn Fittin - Very likely DBLN - leaves her wallet in a library 10 days later. Maybe her face was plastered on DBLN's wall being tortured - photographed while he raped her....

    Instead the Secret Service of the United States of America gave him a sentence of 22 months -

    The Secret Service admits this in their own words in the A&E documentary posted above. I advice - buyer beware of the SS's spin in that A&E that they were some kind of heroic police agency who were so outwitted by a "master criminal". Instead they were likely the slovenly misogynistic, lazy, unprofessional slobs that we see today in the news around the latest SS scandal.

    They let this beast out on America and Canada on May 5, 1978.

    Patricia Action Clearwater Florida May 27 1978 - Very likely DBLN



    April 7,1982 Wendy Lynn Huggy Clearwater area

    Jan 22, 1983 Darlene Webb Daytona

    There are others that I am aware of that are likely him - and likely many that I do not know yet - or may never know.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Wow, that fake-$20 at the Dunkin Donuts is weird!

    The Secret Service compiled detailed records of his whereabouts at many different times from his collection of notes, receipts, etc., but I don't think they ever publicly released an overview of that.
    http://www.iowaunsolvedmurders.com/b...y-miller-1969/

    Look at the above case I posted - 1969 - a realtor strung up in a closet in an empty house - raped - murdered - set in a psycho-sexual pose.

    DBLN was Sketched.

    He orchestrated and conducted a master crime over days on this woman, her family this town.

    In 2013 when I telephoned the Des Moine Iowa police they had NEVER heard of DBLN - "Can you spell the name sir", LE said to me. "The Secret Service? Why are they holding evidence?"

    This case was super obviously him - but their are at least a dozen like this case - where DBLN's black hand can be seen at "work".

    The Secret Service let families and communities suffer for decades - and to me there are no reasons, economic, political, or otherwise that rise to the justice and relief families of victims may have gotten had the Secret Service worked to help people connect their loved one to this perpetrator.

    I will post an article circa 1984 from Barrington RI where it was stated that DBLN's crime scene evidence had 6000 photos - ONE THOUSAND! different victims.

    Rodney Alcala's locker storage pictures were exposed as a mercy call - why Not faces of DBLN's victims?

  5. #20
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    Providence Journal - Providence, R.I.
    Author: DAVE McCARTHY Journal-Bulletin Staff Writer
    Date: Oct 30, 1984
    Start Page: C-06
    Section: NEWS
    Text Word Count: 418
    Document Text
    BARRINGTON --- The Police Department has begun distributing flyers to real estate agents throughout Rhode Island asking for information on James M. Debardeleben, the suspect in the murder 13 1/2 years ago of Barrington real estate agent Edna B. MacDonald.

    John Migliaccio, an assistant attorney general working with Barrington police on Mrs. MacDonald's murder, said that evidence from the U.S. Secret Service indicates that Debardeleben had been in and out of Rhode Island from at least 1971 to 1981.

    Investigators also believe Debardeleben, during some of his stops in Rhode Island, visited other real estate agencies besides the Barrington concern that employed Mrs. MacDonald.

    "We're sending the format he used to all real estate agencies in Rhode Island to pinpoint when he was in Rhode Island and to determine if there are unsolved crimes during the same period he was in Rhode Island," Migliaccio said.

    THE FLYERS list Debardeleben's alleged method of operation: asking to visit only unoccupied homes in rural areas, saying price was no object, placing several calls to real estate agents' homes and offices, setting a meeting with an agent then calling to say his automobile had broken down and asking to be picked up at a motel or hotel, and wearing a business suit with gloves on hands and carrying an attache case.

    The Police Department also wants agents to view a lineup of photographs to determine if they recognize Debardeleben.

    In the future, the Police Department also plans to serve as a clearinghouse for southern New England on the Debardeleben case.

    After Debardeleben'a arrest in May, 1983, on counterfeiting charges, Secret Service agents seized evidence from his apartment in Alexandria, Va., and from storage bins in Alexandria and Manassas, Va.

    THE EVIDENCE has linked him to dozens of crimes, including murder and rape. Included in the evidence are photographs of more than 1,000 young women, many naked, and many unaccounted for, according to the Secret Service.

    Because Debardeleben had been in and out of New England over the years, some of the missing women could be from this area, investigators believe.

    The Police Department has copies of the photographs of the women. Families with missing members could come to Barrington to view the photographs, Migliaccio and Police Chief Alfred T. Oliver Jr. said.

    "We're not going to stop with this one case," Migliaccio said.

    Besides the photographs, the Secret Service seized 18,500 documents from Debardeleben, including coded murder plots and coded itineraries of his cross-country travels.

    KEYWORDS: crime murder picuture

    SECTION: NEWS

    Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission.
    Abstract (Document Summary)

  6. #21
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    thefirstman, I agree the Secret Service may have fumbled some on that first DeB counterfeit arrest. I do feel, though, that they did good to investigate, document and catalogue the evidence of "other crimes" found the second time they nabbed him. I give them credit there. They were in a rather odd position -- they had evidence that those "other" crimes probably were committed but the quandary of tracking them down; the FBI, when first consulted, basically told them "That's interesting -- come back when you have more to go on."

    I have asked the same question as you about why they do not release edited, faces-only pics of the unidentified women in his photographs, as was done with Alcala. I feel a bit better, having learned that they DID do that amongst LE early on -- but I still wish they would do so publicly. One argument against that I've heard is that some women in the pics may have been willing partners and/or unwilling but survived, never reported, and deserve their privacy.

    I'd love it if the SS would release a detailed timeline of DeB's whereabouts, anything they have. I don't see a good argument against that.

  7. #22
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    Forgot to say, thefirstman, thanks for the link to the unsolved Iowa realtor's murder. I do see a lot that sounds like DeB's other (presumed, not convicted --though I think he did them) realtor murders.

    For others: Take note -- there is a suspect sketch at thefirstman's link:

    http://www.iowaunsolvedmurders.com/b...y-miller-1969/


    ...and also here: http://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/dorothy-miller/
    Last edited by Backwoods; 11-19-2013 at 10:29 PM. Reason: add a link

  8. #23
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    thefirstman, one more thing: Since you seem to have a special interest in looking for cases in which DeB might have been the perp, would you please do me a favor and take a look, when you have opportunity, at the WS thread for Carlene Tengelsen -- see what you think?

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154406"]GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    Last edited by Backwoods; 11-19-2013 at 10:35 PM. Reason: fix link

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    thefirstman, one more thing: Since you seem to have a special interest in looking for cases in which DeB might have been the perp, would you please do me a favor and take a look, when you have opportunity, at the WS thread for Carlene Tengelsen -- see what you think?

    GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    I am convinced that was him. The car shuffle. The vanishing from a mall. The town going on a massive manhunt.

    The rupture of innocence for a whole community. A family suffering for a generation without any clue as to what happened.

    She was on my DBLN timeline - but far from the first he got in Georgia.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    thefirstman, I agree the Secret Service may have fumbled some on that first DeB counterfeit arrest. I do feel, though, that they did good to investigate, document and catalogue the evidence of "other crimes" found the second time they nabbed him. I give them credit there. They were in a rather odd position -- they had evidence that those "other" crimes probably were committed but the quandary of tracking them down; the FBI, when first consulted, basically told them "That's interesting -- come back when you have more to go on."

    I have asked the same question as you about why they do not release edited, faces-only pics of the unidentified women in his photographs, as was done with Alcala. I feel a bit better, having learned that they DID do that amongst LE early on -- but I still wish they would do so publicly. One argument against that I've heard is that some women in the pics may have been willing partners and/or unwilling but survived, never reported, and deserve their privacy.

    I'd love it if the SS would release a detailed timeline of DeB's whereabouts, anything they have. I don't see a good argument against that.
    Well you and I see this differently.

    Please Backwoods - I hope you do not experience my response to you as in anyway personal towards you - to me you represent the bubble that the SS has created for their own escapes from culpability.

    Remember they were and are paid an enormous sum of money by each and every tax paying citizen of this country to secure and protect us from the worse actions and actors amongst us.

    To me - it defies credulity to be speaking of torture photographs found in a murderer's rape room - which was found by the SS during DBLN 1976 arrest as "fumbling evidence". Underage girls and women were being tortured with ligature marks on their arms and legs - being sodomized - crying - being destroyed.

    Tengelsen's photos were likely on his wall - as she was likely being destroyed by DBLN over days! So were the Lyon girls photos likely up there too. And do not forget that since I was here in the DC area circa 1975 I remember quite distinctly the fact that the Lyon girls were all over the front pages of the Washington Post and Washington Star and TV and posters in restaurants and shopping malls and so on for one whole year March 1975 to March 1976 when he was arrested. The police and family were desperate to find the perpetrator - a perverted psychopath in their midst.

    In order for the profound level of professional neglect to be absorbed in a more complete way - imagine that today - minimum their are/were likely more than 1000 victims and again MINIMUM 200 families who were made to suffer the same fate as the Tenglesens' and the Miller's and the Lyons' because of that "fumbling of evidence". To make myself clear - he got 22 months in 1976 - he was released into the wild because the SS failed to take minimum initiative to pursue conviction of OBVIOUS rape tortures and very likely murders. So 1978 to 1983 - each and every victim who was picked up in the middle of the night by a police impersonator, or each victim whipped to death by a belt buckle, or each family member of every victim who could never sleep again, and so on - was VERY likely completely avoidable.I imagine that each and every family member and victim made to suffer would tend to agree with me about how avoidable all of this was.

    All of this was to say NOTHING of the justice stolen from families, lets say the Miller family - and I can name for you likely 70 other victims. Whatever I can name took me hours of sifting through cases and connecting dots on the internet. I am not a cop. I have no special tools.

    What I have - was that I cared. Families have not only had justice stolen from them by the SS not doing some of the most basic human decency by - lets say for example - creating a one person liason to facilitate communication between police forces/families in America and Canada while DBLN was living - 1983 to Jan 2011.

    I have to believe that if it were your family - God forbid (and by "your family" I mean any person reading this post) that you would absolutely want the SS to do the bare minimum to see that justice be served - to hold DBLN accountable in some way - and if not that, then some minimum amount of closure were brought to the torture that a family member may have suffered from the not knowing.

    The worse destiny for a parent would be to have your loved one - especially a child - kidnapped and then NEVER knowing what happened to that person. The worse thing imaginable! And the ss in a certain way partnered with DBLN to make this happen - and they still are today.

    That's my lens.
    Last edited by thefirstman; 11-20-2013 at 08:46 AM.


  11. #26
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    Not taking any personal offense, thefirstman. I sense that you feel very strongly about this and I do understand.

    But-- I did not think there were "victim photographs" found at that first arrest? I remember there was a porn film, some other stuff that sorta raised eyebrows -- but was not remembering that there was anything that was clearly likely evidence of personal assault. I may need to go back and re-study that, but in the meantime -- are YOU sure there were photographs of the nature you described found in the first "raid"?

    I think a one-person liaison for LE/families, or even a team, is a great idea. Wish they would do it still!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Not taking any personal offense, thefirstman. I sense that you feel very strongly about this and I do understand.

    But-- I did not think there were "victim photographs" found at that first arrest? I remember there was a porn film, some other stuff that sorta raised eyebrows -- but was not remembering that there was anything that was clearly likely evidence of personal assault. I may need to go back and re-study that, but in the meantime -- are YOU sure there were photographs of the nature you described found in the first "raid"?

    I think a one-person liaison for LE/families, or even a team, is a great idea. Wish they would do it still!
    Check the A&E documentary again - check the Michaud book - the Secret Service admits it themselves that in 1976 they found homemade pornography of underage girls. They recreate this fact when the documentary shows agents breaking in on DBLN rape room - they recreated the simulation of homemade pornography of girls being tortured with photographs attached to the wall above his rape bed.

    In fact the SS agent Foos I believe - admitted to gasping and having a pit in his stomach when in 1983 the SS announced that they had picked up DBLN as the mall passer.

    They ALL knew - they (The SS) admit. So it's irrefutable.

    What was even more stunning was that he was released from Prison May 5, 1978 - he was kidnapping, raping and murdering May 27, 1978 - and executed 3 women in June 1978 in Virginia!

    Look at the SS now - their is a scandal about their agents in brothels and womanizing and getting drunk in 17 countries. If they have time to do that they have time to pick up a phone and call a family that has been suffering for decades wondering what happened to their daughter/sister/mother/friend/aunt and so on.

    People do what they want to do. The SS and the people involved did not want to bother with the mess in 1976 - and they were too humiliated to deal with the depth of the horrors that they were, by their own negligence, partner to in the 1983 arrest.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstman View Post
    I am convinced that was him. The car shuffle. The vanishing from a mall. The town going on a massive manhunt.

    The rupture of innocence for a whole community. A family suffering for a generation without any clue as to what happened.

    She was on my DBLN timeline - but far from the first he got in Georgia.
    (For clarity, since her name does not appear in the quoted reply you made to my question -- this was regarding Carlene Tengelsen, who disappeared from Macon, GA, in 1972.)

    bolded by me in the quote: Unfortunately, the "massive manhunt" did not really seem to happen in Carlene's case; seems some may have wanted to brush her off as a runaway, though there was no indication she was likely to be one. A common enough scenario in the 1970s, I believe.

    thefirstman, would you be willing to share your lists/timeline -- or parts of them -- here on the DeB thread on Websleuths? I'd love to see your Georgia timeline, for example.

    I know you may have reasons you'd rather not -- a book in the works, or something. But I just feel that, at this point, about the only way many families/local LEs are likely to press the SS for information relating to cold cases in which Debardeleben may have been involved is if information/possibilities are kept out there where folks can see, learn and ponder. WSers could do a part in making that happen, IMO.

  14. #29
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    Yes I was referring to Carlene.

    Here is my process about your request to bring what crimes I think DBLN did more public:

    Here's a case that in my mind speaks volumes:

    http://iowacoldcases.org/case-summar...elle-martinko/

    Michelle Martinko - murdered at the newly opened Westdale mall in Cedar Rapids Iowa on December 19, 1979.

    Murdered at a crowded mall at holiday time. The perpetrator was extremely calculated, preying on a victim in a way that for the time (1979) left no evidence. Perpetrator was cut so 30 plus years later DNA became available. He likely dripped blood from his cut in the parking lot.

    All signs to me say that this was a DBLN kidnapping from a crowded mall gone bad. He likely spied her in the mall - maybe in the parking lot when she was first parking her vehicle. He then set out to take her - in her car. He likely tried his police ruse. She was not buying it and told him to put it where the sun doesn't shine. He likely tried to force her into the car - he was convicted of such a crime in a Connecticut - the motorist was saved by the presence of passing vehicle. DBLN in the Conn case tried to push her with his seated body into the car through the driver side door while she was sitting in the driver's seat.

    In Michelle's case she fought like a demon - but DBLN could not let her scream - because he was in a mall parking lot - so he resorted to a knife - much less noise then a gun. He was either bitten or stabbed or cut in the process and left blood/and therefore DNA for future investigations.

    Now I would be willing to make an educated guess and say that DBLN passed a bunch of fake $20 bills in around that mall and that part of Iowa in the exact time frame that Michelle Martinko was murdered. DBLN was out of jail 18 months by then and was busy murdering all over the map by then. He was also very active in passing fake money by winter of 1979.

    Her parents were intensely distraught and fiercely determined to find the perpetrator of this crime. They were very public about their need to get justice and closure.

    No connection was ever made between the very likely passing of fake money and the murder victim by the SS. So while this whole community in Cedar Rapids was crestfallen, haunted, broken-hearted - and all the while the Martinko family began the long, slow process of suffering in anguish, torture, torment of a brutal murder without justice - the SS got to completely not care and totally get off the hook.

    The SS knew for SURE by 1984 that they were dealing with "the worse serial criminal in the history of America" (their words) - "likely the worse serial killer in history" (again paraphrase of SS own words). So why did Martinko's family have to suffer? Why were they denied justice? Her body was found in the parking lot of the mall!


    Furthermore, take a look at how I was treated on the Websleuth Lyon sisters threads. Take a look at the Tedford and Stearne websleuth thread. Again people have their own agendas. I am far from convinced that the people on this website would be helpful in making a big difference in this. Some people responded positively - many people stuck to their own agendas of having to be "right".

    In order for this to be broken open a surviving family member would have to stand up and demand that their local police officer stop at nothing and get them in to see the SS's evidence on DBLN. They would have to find their loved one in a photograph or through an artifact like sadistic trophy that irrefutably connects DBLN to their loved one. They would then have to feel the drive to call a press conference and seek to out the SS - not for the sake of retribution, although the SS have earned this in my opinion, but rather to make it public to all who might be suffering like they were. To burst the bubble of the collusion between DBLN and SS to hide his crime evidence from the world.

    Most police forces that I call treat me like I am a waste of their time - the police forces, for the most part, do not care. And if they do - they hear me speak of the SS and the officers immediately close ranks - "how could the SS be sitting on evidence? They investigate financial crimes. - Do you know murder is not a federal crime? How could the SS be sitting on murder evidence? I have another phone call coming in." or "So your telling me you got all of this from a book and some documentary film?" or they pay lip service and pretend to care to get me off the phone. Some are honest and report that they are not paid to track cold cases only, and they have enormous real time crimes and therefore will look into what I am telling them when they can - likely never.

    There are exceptions - 2 or 3 out of 30 or 40 - genuinely care to have there case resolved - but they too are intimidated by the SS. I offer them names of police agencies and officers that I know have sought and fought to get in to see the SS's evidence on DBLN. This salt of the earth type of police officer seemed to feel real concern and fear about even approaching the SS and the reality that they are pushing into the reality of what must be very important to the SS to hide from the American and Canadian public.
    Last edited by thefirstman; 11-26-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  15. #30
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    Firstman, I do understand that you believe there are other victims of this guy. It is highly probable IMO. I've seen many serial killers cases that the killer either admits to underkill or exaggerates the numbers that he's killed in an attempt to feed his narcissism and possibly his delusions of grandeur. Im confident that the numbers are much higher than LE believes on many of them.

    I think it's awesome anytime some one gets involved in helping solve a cold case homicide or put a name to an unknown doe. It helps give closure to families and friends. Kudos.

    I've known 2 people who are missing persons on the national registry.

    Wendy Huggy was a friend of mine, briefly. We met when we both moved to Holiday around the same time and became involved in the same group of friends who liked to hang out listening to a garage band, go to the mall, beach, or skating rink. So although I only knew her for a couple months, I knew her more then those couple months because she was me and I was her. A teen of the 80's enjoying paradise of the Tampa Bay area. Make sense?

    I will tell you that I only moved 20 miles from where I grew up in Dunedin, to live with my mom for a bit. So I know the area well and the people she may have come in contact with (including the weirdos and pervs) at the usual hang outs, including the mall where she reportedly was last seen in Clearwater. Sometimes I feel like the keeper of history in this area for my generation. I have been dx with a photographic memory and it's all in there.
    With this said, I have my theory of what happened to Wendy Huggy and have 3 persons of interest myself. Two of them connected through the game room at the Mall which is only 1 of 2 places that would have been closing at 11 pm the night she disappeared. I knew these 2 pretty well and have seen that they both had issues personally and in their lives that could bring out something dark. So I don't believe in my heart that this was the work of this serial killer. I believe it is local.

    Now you mentioned to me in an email Patty Action. I believe she was a stranger abduction and gave a ride to the wrong person from the bar she was last seen. It could have been Debardeleben or any of many serial killers that sought victims in this area in the 70's and 80's.
    Cindi Lou


    Some people may consider me crazy, I say I'm just inspired.

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