840 users online (123 members and 717 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Georgia -- Redneck Country
    Posts
    7,175

    Mennonite couple files counter-lawsuit in response to same sex wedding lawsuit

    In case anyone isn't familiar with Mennonites, they are a slightly more "liberal" offshoot/branch of the Amish Communities (same heritage, they used to be Amish but Mennonites will use modern technology even though the moral codes are just as strict, including women's attire).

    I figured this would be an interesting topic amongst the ultra left and ultra right posters.

    A Mennonite couple in Iowa who declined to host a same-sex wedding at their business has filed a counter-lawsuit against the state’s Civil Rights Commission, fearing that the agency will make them pay financial damages and host the events.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/14...ntcmp=obinsite

    I can't imagine why a gay couple that wanted to have a happy fun wedding would decide it had to be at a Mennonite run venue! The owners offered cake and flowers but declined to have the actual wedding ceremony on their premises.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    In case anyone isn't familiar with Mennonites, they are a slightly more "liberal" offshoot/branch of the Amish Communities
    Just as a side note (and forgive me for this being mainly unrelated to what you wrote; I just want to correct the misinformation) -- you have this backwards. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites, not the other way around. Menno Simons died in the 1500s, and the Amish movement started in the late 1600s.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Rochester, New York
    Posts
    30,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    In case anyone isn't familiar with Mennonites, they are a slightly more "liberal" offshoot/branch of the Amish Communities (same heritage, they used to be Amish but Mennonites will use modern technology even though the moral codes are just as strict, including women's attire).

    I figured this would be an interesting topic amongst the ultra left and ultra right posters.




    I can't imagine why a gay couple that wanted to have a happy fun wedding would decide it had to be at a Mennonite run venue! The owners offered cake and flowers but declined to have the actual wedding ceremony on their premises.
    I agree with the Mennonites. It's religious freedom. A friend of mine who's Catholic and his wife who's Jewish had a very hard time finding a priest and a rabbi that would marry them. The thinking behind it was that marriages between the two faiths rarely last. However, those priests and rabbis were free to exercise their right to say no. It bothered me, and my father who was a liberal baptist minister said that if they couldn't find people he probably could. They did find a priest and a rabbi to eventually do it though.

    But then this question can be raised as well. What if they were interracial or of a race they didn't like. Could they refuse on those grounds? IMO, the gay couple should have just moved on and married elsewhere rather than make a stink about it. I understand the reasoning for making a stink, but if it were me I'd go elsewhere. JMO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,939
    If it were at a Mennonite run venue, there wouldn't be any alcohol there, would there?
    This doesn't sound like it would be much of a "traditional" type of wedding reception on many counts.

    It sounds fishy to me, that a modern couple -- a same-sex couple at that, would want to have their wedding and/or reception at a Mennonite owned venue. I wonder if the Mennonites were targeted -- as in, the couple knew that it would be an issue, and maybe the couple was looking for publicity/support...?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Georgia -- Redneck Country
    Posts
    7,175
    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    Just as a side note (and forgive me for this being mainly unrelated to what you wrote; I just want to correct the misinformation) -- you have this backwards. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites, not the other way around. Menno Simons died in the 1500s, and the Amish movement started in the late 1600s.
    Okay so I knew about the Amish but wasn't sure about the Mennonites until I bought a shed that was made/delivered by Mennonites. Those poor guys got grilled! And they were fine with it cause they are secure in what they are.

    Yes I supervised the shed arrival and placement out of curiosity and asked a TON of questions while they were here "Do you have to wear a beard? How come you can surf the net but not watch TV? What do your women wear etc..."?

    Mennonites are good down to earth folks with common sense. They don't look to make enemies, they try to get along with others.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Georgia -- Redneck Country
    Posts
    7,175
    Quote Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
    I wonder if the Mennonites were targeted -- as in, the couple knew that it would be an issue, and maybe the couple was looking for publicity/support...?
    Whatever the motive was....it was NOT about happily planning a fun wedding and celebrating their love.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Mennonites are good down to earth folks with common sense. They don't look to make enemies, they try to get along with others.
    I should add that the Mennonite religion/ethnicity is not at all monolithic -- there are many different sects, some of which are quite modern (having no restrictions on clothing, technology use, etc.) while some live in agrarian communes. They're not all good people, either, just like any other groups -- some communes have had lawsuits within them for the way they subjugate female members economically. (I come from an area with a *very* large Mennonite population.) Some sects shun members for minor misdeeds, and many Mennonites have been accused of being highly judgmental because of how certain they are of their moral superiority. But some of the more universal beliefs, like pacifism and charity, are hard to oppose.

    If you all will indulge me, and trust that I mean no offense, I know of a few Mennonite jokes that are considered fair game/inoffensive by all of the Mennonites that I know (including some of my closest friends).

    1)
    Q: Why don't Mennonites have sex standing up?
    A: Because it might lead to dancing. (The joke in this is pertaining to their opposition to dancing as a precursor to sex, even though they traditionally have very large families.)

    2)
    A Mennonite goes fishing with a full 12-pack of beer. How many beers does he return with? None. Two Mennonites go fishing with a 12-pack of beer. How many do they return with? 12. (The joke in this is that each of the two is worried that the other will have the congregation shun him.)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    10,176
    it's their venue and I'm glad they filed the countersuit

    I come from sturdy Mennonite stock (in which my gay cousin probably would've been shunned from or closeted her entire life if she were born a generation earlier) so this is a personally interesting story for me

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    I should add that the Mennonite religion/ethnicity is not at all monolithic -- there are many different sects, some of which are quite modern (having no restrictions on clothing, technology use, etc.) while some live in agrarian communes. They're not all good people, either, just like any other groups -- some communes have had lawsuits within them for the way they subjugate female members economically. (I come from an area with a *very* large Mennonite population.) Some sects shun members for minor misdeeds, and many Mennonites have been accused of being highly judgmental because of how certain they are of their moral superiority. But some of the more universal beliefs, like pacifism and charity, are hard to oppose.

    If you all will indulge me, and trust that I mean no offense, I know of a few Mennonite jokes that are considered fair game/inoffensive by all of the Mennonites that I know (including some of my closest friends).

    1)
    Q: Why don't Mennonites have sex standing up?
    A: Because it might lead to dancing. (The joke in this is pertaining to their opposition to dancing as a precursor to sex, even though they traditionally have very large families.)

    2)
    A Mennonite goes fishing with a full 12-pack of beer. How many beers does he return with? None. Two Mennonites go fishing with a 12-pack of beer. How many do they return with? 12. (The joke in this is that each of the two is worried that the other will have the congregation shun him.)
    Wow, what other groups are you ok telling jokes about?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Whatever the motive was....it was NOT about happily planning a fun wedding and celebrating their love.
    I don't think we know the original motive. Civil marriage law is in flux and such lawsuits are how the laws are tested and refined.

    I tend to agree with you: why would I want to get married where I'm not wanted?

    But according to your link, Iowa has a non-discrination law that applies to businesses open to the public; it is that law which is being tested here.

    Here's what I'd like to know: does the facility in question vet every couple to make sure the bride and groom conform to the owners' moral codes? Do they exclude couples who have had pre-marital sex, for example? (I'm pretty sure that violates Mennonite codes.)

    I doubt it. Which means the refusal to accommodate the gay couple isn't a moral stand, it's an exercise of personal prejudice.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    30,906
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    Wow, what other groups are you ok telling jokes about?
    Awww come on they were funny!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    Awww come on they were funny!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    Sure they are, and I heard and repeated both of them about Nazarenes (instead of Mennonites) growing up Naz household. I think Irish jokes are funny too...but funny isn't the point, a lot of things are funny, but if said about another group or minority, the very poster would be talking about how racist or homophobic the jokestor was....just a little hypocritical.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,749
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I don't think we know the original motive. Civil marriage law is in flux and such lawsuits are how the laws are tested and refined.

    I tend to agree with you: why would I want to get married where I'm not wanted?

    But according to your link, Iowa has a non-discrination law that applies to businesses open to the public; it is that law which is being tested here.

    Here's what I'd like to know: does the facility in question vet every couple to make sure the bride and groom conform to the owners' moral codes? Do they exclude couples who have had pre-marital sex, for example? (I'm pretty sure that violates Mennonite codes.)

    I doubt it. Which means the refusal to accommodate the gay couple isn't a moral stand, it's an exercise of personal prejudice.
    I disagree that's necessarily the case. It may be, but we don't know. If a same sex couple comes to you to be married, they're obviously gay. No need to ask. If a hetero couple comes to you to be married, you have no way of knowing whether they've had premarital sex, even if you ask the question. jmo

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Somewhere Out There
    Posts
    2,595
    My biological father joined the Mennonite church in his late 40's and his funeral was there a few years ago, I found the service and members to be refreshing and very kind.
    "Words can break someone into a million pieces, but they can also put them back together. I hope you use yours for good, because the only words you'll regret more than the ones left unsaid are the ones you use to intentionally hurt someone."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    30,906

    Mennonite couple files counter-lawsuit in response to same sex wedding lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    Sure they are, and I heard and repeated both of them about Nazarenes (instead of Mennonites) growing up Naz household. I think Irish jokes are funny too...but funny isn't the point, a lot of things are funny, but if said about another group or minority, the very poster would be talking about how racist or homophobic the jokestor was....just a little hypocritical.
    Yeah, you're probably right. I'm not the most "politically correct" person so pay no attention to me
    I like a good "off color" joke at others expense. I have thick skin and the ability to laugh at myself, others and stereotypes. IMO there's a tad of truth to every stereotype .... It's what makes us different and all the same...at the same time.
    It's life... I don't think we should take it sooooo seriously. It all ends the same regardless... In death


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Rather files $70 million lawsuit against CBS
    By pedinurse in forum Celebrity and Entertainment News
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-20-2007, 12:28 PM
  2. Morales Files Another Lawsuit
    By Ca-Sun in forum Past Trial Discussion Threads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-22-2006, 01:44 AM