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  1. #1
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    Judge Orders Boulder DA to Show Cause As To Why GJ Testimony Should Not Be Released

    This is really big news but first a bit of background.

    Our wonderful Cynic uncovered a law a while back that says Grand Jury testimony must be released to the public if an indictment is handed down.

    We found out recently that the Ramseys were indicted but D.A.Hunter refused to press charges.

    We waited for somebody with the money, like a newspaper, to take this to court and demand the testimony be released.

    It happened. From the Huffington Post just a moment ago,"
    "The plaintiffs believe... that the indictment is a criminal justice record that reflects official action by the grand jury, and accordingly that it is subject to mandatory disclosure upon request," the complaint reads. Brennan and the RCFP also argue that the indictment should be made public in the interest of government transparency."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4117676.html

    The Judge ruled,
    "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4117676.html

    This is BIG. The Boulder D.A. (Stan Garnett) must provide the court with basically a Hail Mary type argument that convinces the judge the requested papers should not be released.

    I hope Cynic is up. He can explain about the content of the requested documents better than I can because, well because, he is flat out smarter than me. heh.

    It looks like we will be getting to read some of the testimony used to convince the Grand Jury panel to indict the Ramseys.

    We're not there yet but this is as close as we have come and it's looking good

    This even calls for a few dancing bananas
    :Banane04::Banana4::Banane17::banane58:
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  2. #2
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    Thumbs up Well, Well, Well....

    Mind if I squeeze in here to just sit here Stunned & Speechless after all these years even though I NEVER Lost Faith?!?!



    RiverRat
    2013
    That's a Lot of RR!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    It looks like we will be getting to read some of the testimony used to convince the Grand Jury panel to indict the Ramseys.

    We're not there yet but this is as close as we have come and it's looking good
    It is promising.
    I think that that Brennan and the legal team fighting this particular battle are on good footing, and will probably succeed. Itís a good bet that there will be appeals that will extend the outcome, though.
    While Iím optimistic about the outcome, I personally donít think that there is all that much detail in the indictment. Iíve mentioned before that Brennan is possibly looking at this as a validation or concluding chapter to his initial work with the jurors to break the story of the existence of an indictment. Sure, he and the majority of people here would welcome any new morsel of information that might be revealed but given what Iíve seen in the indictment handed down in the Midyette case, the information is very much an overview and not much by way of fine detail. It will likely be four or five pages long.
    A link to my FFJ post with the full Midyette indictment:
    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=195223&postcount=27"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Colorado Reporters Sue Boulder DA Over Ramsey Case[/ame]

    Iím hoping that this might be stage one of obtaining the ultimate prize, transcripts of the GJ proceedings because the legal issues are similar.
    Hunter said that the only thing standing in the way of releasing grand jury transcripts was that there was no indictment, a lie for which he has yet to be held accountable.
    Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter declined to comment Thursday on Patsy Ramsey's challenge to prosecutors. But he said in a prepared statement that grand jury transcripts in the case will not be released.
    ''Mike Kane and I agree that rule 6.2 of the Colorado rules of criminal procedure does not permit release of grand jury transcripts or any discussion of what a grand jury did or did not do,'' Hunter said. ''The rule clearly states that grand jury proceedings are secret and shall remain that way until either an indictment is returned or a report is issued. Neither of that occurred.''
    http://onlineathens.com/stories/0901...01000008.shtml

    In Colorado, the return of an indictment is a crucial line in the matter of grand jury secrecy.
    From a case in 1984, a judge said the following:
    The secrecy given to grand jury proceedings is not absolute. Release of the records is permitted after an indictment is returned, Crim.P. 6.2
    http://www.leagle.com/decision/1984781701P2d80_1766
    ďIt saddens me that 20 years after my sister Nicoleís murder, we are still seeing the same crimes, just different names, over and over again.Ē
    - Denise Brown (sister of Nicole Brown Simpson)

  4. #4
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    I bet the R team will say,yeah yeah they voted against the Ramseys because they didn't know about the touch DNA back then
    The rice is already cooked...

  5. #5
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    It is promising.
    I think that that Brennan and the legal team fighting this particular battle are on good footing, and will probably succeed. Itís a good bet that there will be appeals that will extend the outcome, though.
    While Iím optimistic about the outcome, I personally donít think that there is all that much detail in the indictment. Iíve mentioned before that Brennan is possibly looking at this as a validation or concluding chapter to his initial work with the jurors to break the story of the existence of an indictment. Sure, he and the majority of people here would welcome any new morsel of information that might be revealed but given what Iíve seen in the indictment handed down in the Midyette case, the information is very much an overview and not much by way of fine detail. It will likely be four or five pages long.
    A link to my FFJ post with the full Midyette indictment:
    Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Colorado Reporters Sue Boulder DA Over Ramsey Case

    Iím hoping that this might be stage one of obtaining the ultimate prize, transcripts of the GJ proceedings because the legal issues are similar.
    Hunter said that the only thing standing in the way of releasing grand jury transcripts was that there was no indictment, a lie for which he has yet to be held accountable.
    Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter declined to comment Thursday on Patsy Ramsey's challenge to prosecutors. But he said in a prepared statement that grand jury transcripts in the case will not be released.
    ''Mike Kane and I agree that rule 6.2 of the Colorado rules of criminal procedure does not permit release of grand jury transcripts or any discussion of what a grand jury did or did not do,'' Hunter said. ''The rule clearly states that grand jury proceedings are secret and shall remain that way until either an indictment is returned or a report is issued. Neither of that occurred.''
    http://onlineathens.com/stories/0901...01000008.shtml

    In Colorado, the return of an indictment is a crucial line in the matter of grand jury secrecy.
    From a case in 1984, a judge said the following:
    The secrecy given to grand jury proceedings is not absolute. Release of the records is permitted after an indictment is returned, Crim.P. 6.2
    http://www.leagle.com/decision/1984781701P2d80_1766
    We are SO setting out Wedding Date Now, My Friend!!!! Thank You for the Sweetest Treat Anyone could have Ever Surprised me with!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/10/1...uld-be-public/

    ďI think one of the things we can learn is what is all of the evidence that was there, what type of investigation was done, what did the witnesses have to say and is there any possibility that we are ever going to achieve justice for JonBenet,Ē said CBS4 Legal Analyst and former prosecutor Karen Steinhauser.

    The rice is already cooked...

  7. #7
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    Steinhauser said that in this case that information could become public, “We have this issue where the grand jury said there should be an indictment, there was an indictment and the DA didn’t sign off on it and that the public has an interest in finding out why not and what happened during those proceedings and what the evidence was.”

    Attorneys arguing for the release agree and called the judge’s ruling on the indictment a reasoned decision based on good law and are calling for the release.
    The rice is already cooked...

  8. #8
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    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...ould-be-public

    Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach ruled Thursday that releasing the indictment wouldn't violate grand-jury secrecy rules.
    The rice is already cooked...

  9. #9
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    http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boul...sey-indictment

    "The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process... is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Lowenbach wrote in the four-page ruling. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings.

    "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

    ----------------


    In his ruling, Lowenbach wrote that the Colorado Supreme Court has declared that the reasons for grand jury secrecy are to prevent the escape of those who might be indicted, to encourage witnesses to come forward, to encourage uninhibited discussion of a case, and to prevent disclosure of derogatory information against someone who has not been indicted.

    But Lowenbach wrote that Brennan's assertion, if true, meant the evidence presented to the grand jurors was enough to warrant an indictment and thus did not require secrecy.

    "In this case, the only factor that may be implicated is the prevention of derogatory information being released against someone who has not been indicted," Lowenbach wrote. "In this case, assuming as asserted by the plaintiffs that the grand jury voted to indict Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, the evidence rose to a level in the minds of the grand jurors justifying an indictment."
    The rice is already cooked...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    It is promising.
    I think that that Brennan and the legal team fighting this particular battle are on good footing, and will probably succeed. Itís a good bet that there will be appeals that will extend the outcome, though.
    While Iím optimistic about the outcome, I personally donít think that there is all that much detail in the indictment. Iíve mentioned before that Brennan is possibly looking at this as a validation or concluding chapter to his initial work with the jurors to break the story of the existence of an indictment. Sure, he and the majority of people here would welcome any new morsel of information that might be revealed but given what Iíve seen in the indictment handed down in the Midyette case, the information is very much an overview and not much by way of fine detail. It will likely be four or five pages long.
    A link to my FFJ post with the full Midyette indictment:
    Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Colorado Reporters Sue Boulder DA Over Ramsey Case

    Iím hoping that this might be stage one of obtaining the ultimate prize, transcripts of the GJ proceedings because the legal issues are similar.
    Hunter said that the only thing standing in the way of releasing grand jury transcripts was that there was no indictment, a lie for which he has yet to be held accountable.
    Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter declined to comment Thursday on Patsy Ramsey's challenge to prosecutors. But he said in a prepared statement that grand jury transcripts in the case will not be released.
    ''Mike Kane and I agree that rule 6.2 of the Colorado rules of criminal procedure does not permit release of grand jury transcripts or any discussion of what a grand jury did or did not do,'' Hunter said. ''The rule clearly states that grand jury proceedings are secret and shall remain that way until either an indictment is returned or a report is issued. Neither of that occurred.''
    http://onlineathens.com/stories/0901...01000008.shtml

    In Colorado, the return of an indictment is a crucial line in the matter of grand jury secrecy.
    From a case in 1984, a judge said the following:
    The secrecy given to grand jury proceedings is not absolute. Release of the records is permitted after an indictment is returned, Crim.P. 6.2
    http://www.leagle.com/decision/1984781701P2d80_1766
    cynic,
    Someone should prepare civil litigation against AH for abuse of his public office in misrepresenting the status of the indictment!


    .


  11. #11
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    I always said that somehow I understand why AH was scared to prosecute >>>not enough evidence,he didn't know who did what,etc

    BUT at the same time whose fault is it that the cops weren't allowed to gather the evidence that was needed (phone records,medical records,etc,etc)???
    The rice is already cooked...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    cynic,
    Someone should prepare civil litigation against AH for abuse of his public office in misrepresenting the status of the indictment!


    .
    Did I read on this forum some weeks back that the indictment issued should have, by law, been signed off by AH, then he could have presented a "no charges or prosecution" argument to a judge as the next step in not pursuing the action of the indictment?

    If so, would this Colo statue have any implication for charges to be brought against AH for not completing the process of the indictment with his signature?:

    COLO. REV. STAT. ANN
    . ß 18-8-405 (West 2008).
    Second degree official misconduct.

    (1) A public servant commits second degree official misconduct if he knowingly, arbitrarily, and capriciously:
    (a) Refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law; or
    (b) Violates any statute or lawfully adopted rule or regulation relating to his office.


    Or because AH is now retired and so many years have gone by, is he off the hook for not signing the true bill?
    We want the truth, but can we handle the truth?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwest mama View Post
    Did I read on this forum some weeks back that the indictment issued should have, by law, been signed off by AH, then he could have presented a "no charges or prosecution" argument to a judge as the next step in not pursuing the action of the indictment?

    If so, would this Colo statue have any implication for charges to be brought against AH for not completing the process of the indictment with his signature?:

    COLO. REV. STAT. ANN
    . ß 18-8-405 (West 2008).
    Second degree official misconduct.

    (1) A public servant commits second degree official misconduct if he knowingly, arbitrarily, and capriciously:
    (a) Refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law; or
    (b) Violates any statute or lawfully adopted rule or regulation relating to his office.


    Or because AH is now retired and so many years have gone by, is he off the hook for not signing the true bill?
    midwest mama,
    Thats exactly what I was thinking about. Over here its described as Misconduct In A Public Office.

    Sometimes there is no statute of limitations on these kind of charges since they never really expect them to be filed.

    There may also be other laws he has transgressed relating to his GJ duties, in this instance the GJ jurors might be able to raise civil litigation themselves say under freeedom of speech or loss of earnings?

    Failed civil litigation wrt AH would create a public record of his behavor and stimulate media debate.


    .

  14. #14
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    hm.had no clue

    http://crimejusticeandamerica.com/sthomas1

    BILL BICKEL
    Isnít the fact that Alex Hunter owns property with the Ramseysí lawyers a conflict of interest?
    STEVE THOMAS
    Great question ó as I say in the book, Alex Hunter should have undoubtedly recused himself from this case, not just
    for having joint business interests Ramsey attorneys
    , but for a number of other things
    The rice is already cooked...

  15. #15
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    And this from Madeleine's posted link:

    BILL BICKEL
    Are there any aspects of the case that you find yourself constantly puzzling over?
    STEVE THOMAS
    Hunter knows there is no smoking gun. As he is prone to do, he flip-flops constantly on issues, but even he is now
    convinced this was not an Intruder.


    So, Hunter was convinced JB's killer was NOT an Intruder? And according to the law Burke could not be charged. And the GJ returned an indictment for the arrest of J and P, to which he replied there was not enough evidence to proceed with filing charges??

    But HE was convinced it was not an Intruder, which in my mind equals the fact he had to have been convinced either J or P or both killed JB....unless he was not convinced that there wasn't any other person in the house that night who would have been known to the Ramseys?

    Did AH ever make any public statements about the plausibility of deeper investigation of a suspect he might have had on his radar as a perpetrator other than JR or PR?
    We want the truth, but can we handle the truth?

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