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  1. #1

    "This me when I was first born. That's my Mom and the doctor."

    From the Blabbieville website, a Patsy Ramsey handwriting example is shown. However it is very curious. It is a picture of a woman holding her newborn baby (from what i can make out from the bad photocopy and scan)

    The caption to the photo reads:

    "This me when I was first born. That's my Mom and the doctor."

    This is supposedly Patsy's writing.

    However, Patsy would not refer to herself as "my Mom" and thus unless it is an ancient picture of Patsy's mom and the doctor, then it must actually be a picture of Patsy holding one of the children.

    It is not a HUGE leap to suspect that there's been confusion here, and that this sample was actually a photo of Patsy holding Burke, and that Patsy had gotten Burke to write the caption (since Patsy has a penchant for the cute, some would say kitschy)

    But compare the last page of the ransom note with the handwriting on this photo. Looks spookily similar doesn't it?

    Apart from the a's, which have changed, everything else seems to match up. What struck me most was the correspondence between the capital I's. Note the very strong upper and lower marks on the capital I's.

    This handwriting sample can be found on the page:

    http://blabbieville.tripod.com/ramseysamples.htm

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruJosh
    From the Blabbieville website, a Patsy Ramsey handwriting example is shown. However it is very curious. It is a picture of a woman holding her newborn baby (from what i can make out from the bad photocopy and scan)

    The caption to the photo reads:

    "This me when I was first born. That's my Mom and the doctor."

    This is supposedly Patsy's writing.

    However, Patsy would not refer to herself as "my Mom" and thus unless it is an ancient picture of Patsy's mom and the doctor, then it must actually be a picture of Patsy holding one of the children.

    It is not a HUGE leap to suspect that there's been confusion here, and that this sample was actually a photo of Patsy holding Burke, and that Patsy had gotten Burke to write the caption (since Patsy has a penchant for the cute, some would say kitschy)

    But compare the last page of the ransom note with the handwriting on this photo. Looks spookily similar doesn't it?

    Apart from the a's, which have changed, everything else seems to match up. What struck me most was the correspondence between the capital I's. Note the very strong upper and lower marks on the capital I's.

    This handwriting sample can be found on the page:

    http://blabbieville.tripod.com/ramseysamples.htm
    I have always thought that the handwriting was very close, too. Someone else had said that Burke would be a strange little boy if he actually wrote the captions himself - I don't agree - if he were really starved for attention as everyone thinks he was he may have sat down with Patsy and she told him what to write and he wrote it just so he could spend some time with his Mom. If I remember correctly the photo I have seen is in color. Would a picture of Patsy as a newborn been in color - what year was she born?

  3. #3
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    These photos of Burke with handwritten captions are from Burke's personal photo album and, IMO, were falsely used by Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts as Patsy's exemplars in the Wolf v Ramsey defamation lawsuit. Hoffman assumed the captions were written by Patsy, but in my opinion they were written by Burke himself. They are childish and written in the first person.

    Hoffman's examiners concluded that whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. IMO, without realizing it, they identified Burke as the writer of the ransom note.

    When asked who wrote the captions, Patsy said she couldn't remember.

  4. #4
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    bluecrab, i know it`s an off topic question, but was wondering about patsy`s pushbike.
    lou smit asked a question about this bike in the 1998 interviews.
    is there anything that you or anybody else knows ?
    would be grateful.

    with regard to the RN would a 9 year old be able to write that ?

    lawman

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawman
    bluecrab, i know it`s an off topic question, but was wondering about patsy`s pushbike.
    lou smit asked a question about this bike in the 1998 interviews.
    is there anything that you or anybody else knows ?
    would be grateful.

    with regard to the RN would a 9 year old be able to write that ?

    lawman


    lawman,

    All I know about Patsy's new bike she got from John for Christmas is what is transcribed in the garbled (perhaps intentionally?) 1998 interviews. While Lou Smit was interviewing John he asked if Patsy got her bike back, and John replied yes, (garbled) had it.

    (In one of my BDI theories I suggest the fifth person in the house that night took Patsy's bike home, leaving the tracks in the snow across the Ramsey's front lawn, thus leaving no footprints in the fresh dusting of snow that fell that night.)

    With respect to whether or not a nine-year-old (almost 10) would be capable of writing the ransom note, my answer is yes. My eight-year-old granddaughter writes exactly like that found in the ransom note. The vocabulary in the ransom note is somewhat advanced, but please remember there was an open dictionary on the table where the note was likely written. Also, IMO there was a fifth person in the house that night -- an accomplice who may have been older than the actual writer and who helped in the wording.

    BlueCrab

  6. #6
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    thanks bluecrab

    the D.A`s office must of had information that is not widely known regarding the bike.
    as you the say the interview transcript makes no sense at all, possibly a coincidence ,although definetely appears to be missing certain parts. a bit like the missing phone records perhaps.
    your theory about the case, seems very likely to me, the BPD were not told by the D.A`s office about it, and were convinced it was patsy.

    lawman

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    These photos of Burke with handwritten captions are from Burke's personal photo album and, IMO, were falsely used by Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts as Patsy's exemplars in the Wolf v Ramsey defamation lawsuit. Hoffman assumed the captions were written by Patsy, but in my opinion they were written by Burke himself. They are childish and written in the first person.

    Hoffman's examiners concluded that whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. IMO, without realizing it, they identified Burke as the writer of the ransom note.

    When asked who wrote the captions, Patsy said she couldn't remember.
    Why do we have to focus on that picture? Burke's handwriting was easily attainable as they used all of his schoolwork for comparisons. I haven't seen it officially declared that Burke's handwriting cleared him as the author of the note, but I have read that his handwriting prior to 12/26/96 was easily attainable from school...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    Why do we have to focus on that picture? Burke's handwriting was easily attainable as they used all of his schoolwork for comparisons. I haven't seen it officially declared that Burke's handwriting cleared him as the author of the note, but I have read that his handwriting prior to 12/26/96 was easily attainable from school...


    Voice of Reason,

    Darnay Hoffman's examiners in 1997 didn't have Patsy's official exemplars. Only the six CBI examiners had her historic exemplars and the London Letter exemplars, plus the original ransom note, to examine. The CBI examiners didn't need the captions from the photos in Burke's photo album, and wouldn't have used them anyway because it was questionable whether they were Burke's or Patsy's exemplars. Darnay Hoffman's examiners had to use the captions on the photos because there wasn't much else available for them to use.

    In regard to historic exemplars from Burke, there are none available to the public. The Ramseys are careful not to let any sample of Burke's handwriting, from school work or anyplace else, to be released. After the murder Burke and Patsy both began typing everything that had a chance of getting into the hands of the public. If you can find a sample of Burke's handwriting, before or after December 26, 1996, you're sitting on a gold mine.

    BlueCrab

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    These photos of Burke with handwritten captions are from Burke's personal photo album and, IMO, were falsely used by Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts as Patsy's exemplars in the Wolf v Ramsey defamation lawsuit. Hoffman assumed the captions were written by Patsy, but in my opinion they were written by Burke himself. They are childish and written in the first person.

    Hoffman's examiners concluded that whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. IMO, without realizing it, they identified Burke as the writer of the ransom note.

    When asked who wrote the captions, Patsy said she couldn't remember.
    Patsy couldn't remember who wrote the captions???? That statement alone causes suspicion that she is trying to hide some thing.
    There are only four people who live in that house ... and I'm sure they all recognize each others' handwriting ... it had nothing to do with remembering,all she had to do was look at the captions and identify the handwriting.
    Yep ... a lot of covering up for SOMEONE going on! The 64 million dollar question still is ... who????

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    lawman,

    All I know about Patsy's new bike she got from John for Christmas is what is transcribed in the garbled (perhaps intentionally?) 1998 interviews. While Lou Smit was interviewing John he asked if Patsy got her bike back, and John replied yes, (garbled) had it.

    (In one of my BDI theories I suggest the fifth person in the house that night took Patsy's bike home, leaving the tracks in the snow across the Ramsey's front lawn, thus leaving no footprints in the fresh dusting of snow that fell that night.)

    With respect to whether or not a nine-year-old (almost 10) would be capable of writing the ransom note, my answer is yes. My eight-year-old granddaughter writes exactly like that found in the ransom note. The vocabulary in the ransom note is somewhat advanced, but please remember there was an open dictionary on the table where the note was likely written. Also, IMO there was a fifth person in the house that night -- an accomplice who may have been older than the actual writer and who helped in the wording.

    BlueCrab
    This is my first post so please bear with me. I have been reading about this case and read in the 6/98 interview with JR and he states there were 3 new bikes that Christmas. Well, actually there is a discrepancy - first it's 2 (0064 line 9) and then a few paragraphs down it's 3 (0086 line 15), including one for BR. I am still looking to find where this has been explained if it was 2 or 3 bikes. Is it a fact that there were bicycle tracks leading from the house 12/26 AM? Thank you


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry
    This is my first post so please bear with me. I have been reading about this case and read in the 6/98 interview with JR and he states there were 3 new bikes that Christmas. Well, actually there is a discrepancy - first it's 2 (0064 line 9) and then a few paragraphs down it's 3 (0086 line 15), including one for BR. I am still looking to find where this has been explained if it was 2 or 3 bikes. Is it a fact that there were bicycle tracks leading from the house 12/26 AM? Thank you
    Excellent find, Cranberry! What is even more significant to me, is that John can't account for where PR's bike is??!! Smit asks him a few questions, doesn't seem to get any answers, and then immediately changes the subject. And then when he returns to the bikes later, there are 3 instead of 2, as you have pointed out. Some have speculated about bike tracks, but I'm unsure if that is a fact. It has been suggested that there were no footprints, because someone left on a bike...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry
    This is my first post so please bear with me. I have been reading about this case and read in the 6/98 interview with JR and he states there were 3 new bikes that Christmas. Well, actually there is a discrepancy - first it's 2 (0064 line 9) and then a few paragraphs down it's 3 (0086 line 15), including one for BR. I am still looking to find where this has been explained if it was 2 or 3 bikes. Is it a fact that there were bicycle tracks leading from the house 12/26 AM? Thank you

    Good morning Cranberry; welcome,

    Yes, there were bicycle tracks in the snow that ran across the Ramsey's front lawn. There's an early morning crime scene photo of the tracks taken before the snow on the grass melted.

    Burke didn't get a new bike that Christmas. Only JonBenet and Patsy got new bikes.

    LOU SMIT: "Did you go to the Barnhills to pick up a bike?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We were giving Burke a bike but not that year."

  13. #13
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    did i say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    LOU SMIT: "Did you go to the Barnhills to pick up a bike?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We were giving Burke a bike but not that year."
    and then five minutes later...

    LOU SMIT: Do you remember kind of what the kids got? What she got?

    JOHN RAMSEY: Well JonBenet got a bike. I think Burke got a bike too. It seems like we had three bikes there.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Good morning Cranberry; welcome,

    Yes, there were bicycle tracks in the snow that ran across the Ramsey's front lawn. There's an early morning crime scene photo of the tracks taken before the snow on the grass melted.

    Burke didn't get a new bike that Christmas. Only JonBenet and Patsy got new bikes.

    LOU SMIT: "Did you go to the Barnhills to pick up a bike?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We were giving Burke a bike but not that year."
    Thank you for your response! Further on JR states there were 3 bikes and specifically one was for BR. Perhaps that was for his birthday or something. He didn't say if or where BR's bike was hidden. Thanks again everyone.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Good morning Cranberry; welcome,

    Yes, there were bicycle tracks in the snow that ran across the Ramsey's front lawn. There's an early morning crime scene photo of the tracks taken before the snow on the grass melted.
    This is a detail from one of the photos:

    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

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