CA - Andy Lopez, 13, carrying toy assault rifle, shot by LE, 22 Oct 2013

California cop's mistaken fatal shooting of boy unfolded in seconds

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Reuters
By Ronnie Cohen
6 hours ago



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This combination of photos provided by the family via The Press Democrat and the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department shows an undated photo of 13-year-old Andy Lopez and the replica assault rifle he was holding when he was shot and killed by two Sonoma County deputies in Santa Rosa, Calif. on Tuesday, Oct. 22, 2013. (AP Photo/Family via The Press Democrat, Sonoma County Sheriff's Department)
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This combination of photos provided by the family via The Press Democrat and the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department shows an undated photo of 13-year-old Andy Lopez and the replica assault rifle he was holding when he was shot and killed by two Sonoma County deputies in Santa Rosa, Calif. on Tuesday, Oct. 22, 2013. (AP Photo/Family via The Press Democrat, Sonoma County Sheriff's Department)

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By Ronnie Cohen

SANTA ROSA, California (Reuters) - No more than 10 seconds elapsed from the time sheriff's deputies spotted a 13-year-old California boy carrying what they thought was an assault rifle and the moment they shot him dead, only to learn afterward the gun was a plastic replica, police said on Thursday.

It took 16 seconds more for the two officers to call for medical assistance, according to the time line of events released by police investigating Tuesday's shooting in Santa Rosa, a suburb in northern California's wine country.

http://news.yahoo.com/california-cops-mistaken-fatal-shooting-boy-unfolded-seconds-053109259.html

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Poor kid.

According to that account, one of the deputies opened fire after the boy was twice ordered to put the gun down and instead turned toward the officers as the barrel of the weapon rose in their direction.

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I saw this on the news. They held up the replica and a real assault rifle... you could not tell the difference from a distance.

Police also have said the deputy who opened fire could not tell from the angle of his position that he was shooting at a child, but saw the gun and feared for his life.

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I stand by the cops on this. jmo

popsicle said:

I saw this on the news. They held up the replica and a real assault rifle... you could not tell the difference from a distance.



I stand by the cops on this. jmo

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I understand what you're saying...who knows why he raised the barrel of the gun? I feel bad for him because -- I don't know if he was just being a goofy kid and thought the police would get his "joke", or if he was scared, or what, but his decision cost him his life.

So young. I can't imagine what the family of the young man and the officers are going through. Coulda-woulda-shoulda I imagine.

Such a horrible situation, I don't really know if anyone is to blame. My thoughts are with all - this boy's loved ones, and the LE who will have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

This is really sad. Unless I was there I can't understand what happen. It is a tough call. If the officer really feared for his life then that's that. What ever happen to quickly dodging behind a car, or is that only in the movies.

Why don't we just stop making toy guns that look like real ones?
Oh, yeah because that would be taking away the kids rights, got it.

MsFacetious said:

Why don't we just stop making toy guns that look like real ones?
Oh, yeah because that would be taking away the kids rights, got it.

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I totally agree. This is ridiculous. A coworker was railing and saying the officers should not have shot this kid. The argument was he was 13, model student, had a TOY gun, etc.

My argument was, in teh moment, those officers had no way of knowing this was a "good" kid with model student and carrying a TOY. If its not a real weapon that LEOs or citizens need to worry about then it should never LOOK like one.

This was a tragic accident IMO. I am sorry but you cannot any longer assume that a teen carrying what appears to look like a weapon is "safe"

Not in this day and age - how many kids have brought guns to school and harmed or intended to harm others in just the last two weeks??

LEOs are not psychic, they simply are not.

Here are some images of some air soft pellet guns.

another

I'm not very impartial though. My kids can't even have squirt guns.
I simply don't trust them to make the distinction between real and fake guns.
NO GUNS, PERIOD is very clear. :twocents:

*Though for the record my Dad is into guns and my kids WILL learn gun safety.*
They just will know that they NEVER touch a gun unless Grandpa is there. ANY GUN.

Yep and all the rocket scientists who wish to arm teachers in schools will be moaning and groaning in a year about how some poor teacher/s accidentally shot some poor kid/s who was really getting a handkerchief out of his pocket instead of a gun.

Running an Arms Race domestically is never a smart idea.

I wish Americans would realise that guns do not represent freedom, and gun licencing does not represent erosion of that freedom.



Sorry you know I love y'all.

Australians have a Travel Warning issued by our PM regarding travelling to the US due to your gun obsession.

Yep, just like Afghanistan or Syria.

Fabulous .. just unreal. I put this up yesterday, but I'll add it here too ..

Terrible tally: 500 children dead from gunshots every year, 7,500 hurt, analysis finds

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/terrible-tally-500-children-dead-gunshots-every-year-7-500-8C11469222

Shoot first, ask later ..

SapphireSteel said:

Yep and all the rocket scientists who wish to arm teachers in schools will be moaning and groaning in a year about how some poor teacher/s accidentally shot some poor kid/s who was really getting a handkerchief out of his pocket instead of a gun.

Running an Arms Race domestically is never a smart idea.

I wish Americans would realise that guns do not represent freedom, and gun licencing does not represent erosion of that freedom.



Sorry you know I love y'all.

Australians have a Travel Warning issued by our PM regarding travelling to the US due to your gun obsession.

Yep, just like Afghanistan or Syria.

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No offense taken- I'm an American who feels the exact same way- I made my husband get rid of his gun. I felt less safe with it. I gave him an ultimatum- his gun or me, but he couldn't move in with me and force me to live with his gun. He chose me!!

If a teenager pointed what appeared to be an assault rifle, in my direction, after being told twice to drop his weapon, I'd have shot him too.

Very sad.

But easily preventable in many ways.....

-don't make replica guns
-don't carry or allow your child to carry a realistic replica in public
-don't point your replica at the police
etc etc etc.....

These cases make me so angry..

I own a replica XM-177 airsoft rifle(think ar-15). Just looking at it from a distance, you cannot tell the difference. No orange tip. I have owned it since i was alot younger but I was still over 18.

People ask me what i own it for. Well, im sure alot of you have heard of paint ball. Alot of people play airsoft instead and run Mil sim's. One mistake alot of people who dont know any better make, is they believe these are kids toys instead of adult toys like they are. While kids can play with them responsibly under adult supervision, its very important to teach them about Airsoft Weapon Safety. I have only ever played with someone under the age of 18 once, and he came with his dad and was well versed on proper use. One of the most important things everyone is taught is DONT TAKE IT OUT IN PUBLIC!!!!!! Hell we dont even put the mag in the gun until on the playing field. The thing is, The Person with the FAKE gun ALWAYS looses the fight.

Infact we realize the mistake with real guns is so easy to be made, that we notify the local police before EVERY game. You never know what could happen. Case in point, one day the RCMP raided a grow up next to the field. Atleast 1 suspect fled leading fully armed ERT officers onto our field. 30+ men wearing full camo and replica weapons could cause alot of confusion. things could have got ugly. Its amazing what a little responsibility will do. Several officers, after learning about us, came out a few weeks later to join the fun.

We shouldnt just ban things because some morons dont know how to be responsible. Im not sure the rules down south but make them 18+. Hell, sell them as if they were real guns, just dont prevent responsible users from enjoying a loved hobby.

airplanelamp said:

But easily preventable in many ways.....

-don't make replica guns
-don't carry or allow your child to carry a realistic replica in public
-don't point your replica at the police
etc etc etc.....

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But the two points highlighted in red would require PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on the part of the parents. That is just not acceptable in our modern society, legislation has replaced personal responsibility.

Any parent that lets their 13 year old walk around displaying an ASSAULT RIFLE replica in public and when confronted by police is obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Sonya610 said:

But the two points highlighted in red would require PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on the part of the parents. That is just not acceptable in our modern society, legislation has replaced personal responsibility.

Any parent that lets their 13 year old walk around displaying an ASSAULT RIFLE replica in public and when confronted by police is obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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Not sure about this specific case, but these replica guns can be bought by anyone. A thirteen year old could go out and buy it without his parents' knowledge. We don't really know what the parents know in this type of situation, since it's easy for kids to buy things behind their parents' back.

My brother, for instance, bought an airsoft gun with his allowance money - my mom was not pleased when she discovered it. He was twelve, and she did have a frank talk with him about it and made him paint an orange cap on the end. But I can easily see how parents could be unaware of the toys their tweens and teens buy.

I was at the courthouse last Tuesday when there was supposed to be a big demonstration. Seems it was peaceful and the DA let the family know that they are still investigating. Talked to my friend who is a Sheriff's Deputy and, although tragic, seems like it was justified based on the totality of the circumstances. If that is true, it's unlikely our DA will press charges. She is known to be very fair and very reasonable, but doubt she will bend the law due to public pressure.

LinasK said:

No offense taken- I'm an American who feels the exact same way- I made my husband get rid of his gun. I felt less safe with it. I gave him an ultimatum- his gun or me, but he couldn't move in with me and force me to live with his gun. He chose me!!

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Wow just wow. :loveyou:

I post my opinion on a few forums and yours is the ONLY supportive comment I've ever had from an American. Sad but true.

Usually my posts get attacked, I get attacked, or they are ignored.

It's horrible what we see happening to your country and your people and your children. You all deserve to be safe.

Gun laws do not equal a gun ban. Folks need to realise this. It's just about taking common sense measures to ensure those that have them are trained and licensed, just like motorists.

No one suggests banning cars, right? Just regulating those who can legally drive them.

It's exactly the same principle, I don't understand why folks equate it with an erosion of their freedom.

Anyway kids are going to keep getting killed until someone does something. There's nothing surer, sadly.

Guns also tend to increase other violence as well, such as rape and robbery. There is an entire statistic that is overlooked in this debate, those who have been traumatised by gun violence, even badly injured, but survived. They don't make the headlines but there are millions of them, more and more daily.

:scared:

I have an idea! It's the problem solver. Make all toy guns totally orange. Also teach youngsters that when the police tell you to drop your weapon (or toy) you do what they say within a sec!!!! I don't blame the police at all for their action. Look many crimes are committed with toy guns so when law enforcement tells you to drop your weapon, you've dropped it before they finish their sentence... JMO