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Poll: What do you think?


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  1. #1
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    What will be the outcome of the Oscar Pistorius Trial?

    Oscar Pistorius Indictment:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/161348107/...ius-indictment


    Thread where members are discussing the case:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205154"]Oscar Pistorius charged with murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

  2. #2
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    Thanks Coldpizza. Does this appear at the top of each thread now?

    I have voted already.
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  3. #3
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    Your welcome, and the voting options will always remain at the top.

  4. #4
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    I voted for culpable homicide but of course am hoping for murder. Knowing how corrupt the SA legal system can be I wouldn't be shocked if he's found innocent. I would be nicely surprised but shocked if they find him guilty of premeditated murder.
    Last edited by fruity; 10-27-2013 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Typo

  5. #5
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    I agree with the Prosecution that it is a case of premeditated murder as OP did not fire only one shot, he fired four! They have over 100 witnesses, seem to have done all they could do to prove this, he has a history of violence, etc.

    But there could be some surprises with what the Defence comes up with to minimise the sentence.
    _________________________________________
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  6. #6
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    I also voted for culpable homicide as IMO that is what the judge will hand down but, without doubt, I feel that it should be premeditated murder. I feel there is going to be a miscarriage of justice but sincerely hope not.

  7. #7
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    IMO, a judgment of murder is most appropriate for the crime and is the most likely outcome. Murder differs from culpable homicide in that it involves criminal intent. But, murder does not involve planning to the extent of premeditated murder. The latter would be applicable if O.P. thought out beforehand the time and conditions under which he would kill Reeva. For instance, premeditated murder would apply if O.P. arranged for Reeva to arrive at his house at a specified time, hid behind the front door or at the top of the stairs, and then shot her as she walked inside.


    While I believe the evidence shows O.P. intended to kill Reeva, I think it also shows he likely did so in a moment of rage. The thought of killing Reeva did not enter his mind until seconds (or a few minutes, at the most) before he first pulled the trigger, IMO.
    Last edited by Indy Anna; 10-28-2013 at 10:23 PM. Reason: corrected misspelling
    "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
    - Henry David Thoreau

  8. #8
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    What are the sentencing guidelines for premeditated murder?

    For premeditated murder, the mandatory sentence in South Africa is a life sentence, which in practice is 25 years unless someone can prove extraordinary circumstances.

    Extraordinary circumstances could include a combination of number of factors: for example, that it was a first offense, the age of the person and in Pistorius' case, his disability and the impact this could have had on his actions.

    However, Grant said if the court accepted the prosecution's case -- that Pistorius chased Steenkamp into the bathroom and "hunted" her down -- his defense team would be hard-pressed to convince the court that there should be any considerations that should override the repugnance that should be felt.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/22/wo...legal-q-and-a/
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  9. #9
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    What happens if Pistorius is found not guilty of premeditated murder?

    If Pistorius faces trial for premeditated murder but is found not guilty, he would face a "competent verdict" or lesser charge of culpable homicide, which is based on negligence.

    Pistorius is not claiming self-defense; he is claiming to have been mistaken about his need for self-defense. He is denying that he intentionally unlawfully killed Steenkamp.

    Grant said the defense boiled down to Pistorius saying "I made a mistake."
    If the court were to rule that the mistake was unreasonable -- based on what an objective, ordinary South African would do in the circumstances of the accused -- he would be found guilty of culpable homicide.

    Grant said he would expect a court to probably conclude that it is unreasonable to fire at anybody through a closed door regardless of whether they were an intruder, because of the value of human life.

    "I'm expecting that if he beats the murder charge, he is in very grave jeopardy of being convicted of culpable homicide," he said.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/22/wo...legal-q-and-a/
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  10. #10
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    I agree Estelle. From what we "know" I think it was premeditated in the sense that he had time to stop himself but didn't. I also agree with an earlier poster who thinks the shooting was carried out in a fit of rage. He murdered when he was "out of control" and this may be used in the DT's case. He was fully aware it was RS in the toilet cubicle BUT I do see his DT, who we know to be very competent, screwing up the trial with their explanations and excuses surrounding the event. We have seen how they managed to run rings around the PT at his bail hearing. One of OP's problems is his affidavit. This has locked him into a story with lots of "holes" in it. Hopefully the state's PT will be a decidedly more competent at the trial.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interested Bystander View Post
    I agree Estelle. From what we "know" I think it was premeditated in the sense that he had time to stop himself but didn't. I also agree with an earlier poster who thinks the shooting was carried out in a fit of rage. He murdered when he was "out of control" and this may be used in the DT's case. He was fully aware it was RS in the toilet cubicle BUT I do see his DT, who we know to be very competent, screwing up the trial with their explanations and excuses surrounding the event. We have seen how they managed to run rings around the PT at his bail hearing. One of OP's problems is his affidavit. This has locked him into a story with lots of "holes" in it. Hopefully the state's PT will be a decidedly more competent at the trial.
    IMO there is no crime of passion in SA, that is only in France. One bullet OK but not four through a closed door when it was not in his self-defence.
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  12. #12
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    I remember reading this and thought that it inferred a crime of passion was a possible option.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...d-out-20130610

  13. #13
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    As I have indicated on the main thread I think he is guilty of premeditated murder but this poll, I thought, was to indicate what we thought the judge's verdict might be. I think it may well be Culpable Homicide but against this is the weight of OP's affidavit in which he clearly states he thought it was an intruder. Unless he changes his plea, which I assume he can do if he feels the evidence is so strong that it his only option, is to state what really happened. If he does this I think the judge may well accept he killed whilst in a rage and out of control. There are, it seems, witnesses to a loud argument. It may well go in his favour if he were to admit there had been a dreadful argument. However, this too creates a problem if we find there definitely were two sets of shots. That drags me back to premeditated murder or insanity.

  14. #14
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    If they manage to prove there was a fight between the two of them (as I believe) then I still think he'll only get a light sentence .. I have no faith in the justice system there, or anywhere, when it comes to people of his status.

    Wouldn't Dominick Dunne have loved this one?
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  15. #15
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    Oscar Pistorius Shooting: Olympian Joked About Killing Intruder On Twitter

    Oscar Pistorius joked about killing an intruder on Twitter in November last year, less than three months before the Olympian's girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead at his Pretoria home.

    Pistorius tweeted on 27 November: "Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry! waa."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2686897.html
    _________________________________________
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