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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Another 11 a.m. comment

    Ive been reading the 1997 BPD interview with JR, Det TT was asking him to go through the events while waiting for the kidnapper to call he says"We waited until past 11 and then we, and then I think we were in the living room andLinda said why dont you take somone with you and look through the house and see if theres anything you notice that is unusual." again JR refers to 11 am , when JBs body was discovered at 1 pm? this is the same time he told John Andrew whats with this 11 am wasnt it also around the time JR left and went downstairs alone? anyone?

  2. #2
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    Aug 2003
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    Talking

    Hey Terralee! Welcome to WS! I will have to dig out my PMPT book and see if I can find that reference. But, I believe JB's body was "discovered" close to 1 p.m. MST. IMO, I think JR found her at 11 a.m., then when Arndt suggested that he search the house, he made a beeline to the basement, and the rest is history. I will see if I can find my book and look for the reference. Again, WELCOME!!!!!!
    "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you!"

    The above post is my opinion and my opinion only. Please do not copy and past to other forums.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    29

    Great Tezi

    Thanks for the welcome, my reason for posting this comment was to show that JR had mentioned 11am twice, both times referring to the discovery of JBs body, which we know was incorrect,what occurred at 11am that would cause that time to stick in his mind? was he ever questioned as to why he stated 11am? if not he should have.Good question IMO would have been why was 11am significant to JR?

  4. #4
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    Aug 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by terralee
    Thanks for the welcome, my reason for posting this comment was to show that JR had mentioned 11am twice, both times referring to the discovery of JBs body, which we know was incorrect,what occurred at 11am that would cause that time to stick in his mind? was he ever questioned as to why he stated 11am? if not he should have.Good question IMO would have been why was 11am significant to JR?

    terralee,

    IMO John moved JonBenet's body into the open in the wine cellar at 11 AM when he snuck downstairs into the basement by himself. He and Patsy were surely getting anxious because they expected the body to be found immediately after the cops got there, but it wasn't. John likely figured she was hidden too well, so he moved her.

    Here's why I theorize JonBenet was moved at 11 AM: Fleet White opened the wine cellar door at around 6:20 AM, couldn't find the light switch, so he leaned in and looked around the best he could in the dark. He didn't see a body.

    John opened the wine cellar door at 1:14 PM, and found JonBenet's body, wrapped in a white blanket in the middle of the wine cellar floor only two steps from the door.

    Fleet White insists to this day that, even though he couldn't find the light switch when he peered into the room at 6:20 AM, he would have seen JonBenet, wrapped in a white blanket, HAD SHE BEEN THERE. IMO this is the basis of the falling out between the Whites and the Ramseys. Fleet White knows a Ramsey killed JonBenet because Fleet knows John moved the body at 11 AM.

    BlueCrab

  5. #5
    The first to check out the basement was Officer French which would have been soon after arriving at 6am. Huge mistake was that he failed to open the wine cellar door.

    As soon as Fleet White arrived, he also went down to the basement and he opened the wine cellar door, felt around for the light switch but could not find it. He then closed the door and re-latched it.

    John states in the interrrogation tapes that he went down to the basement between 7am and 10am...he said he went down before Linda Arndt showed up.

    The last trip to the basement was around 1pm when both John and Fleet made the trip and John "discovers" JonBenet in the wine cellar.

    This has troubled Fleet White to no end. He is almost sure she was not in the wine cellar....or if she was, then she was set closer to the door after he looked in.

    I believe too that John moved JonBenet's body closer to the door. There is no way, no how you would miss a white blanket in a dark room.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    343
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    terralee,

    IMO John moved JonBenet's body into the open in the wine cellar at 11 AM when he snuck downstairs into the basement by himself.

    BlueCrab
    BlueCrab,

    Where are you suggesting he moved the body from? To suggest he moved her closer to the door is plausible, but, as you have suggested on other threads that she was moved from the crawl space just doesn't work for me. if that is what you suggest, it doesn't make sense because JBR would have been covered in dirt and debris from the crawl space...

  7. #7
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    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    BlueCrab,

    Where are you suggesting he moved the body from? To suggest he moved her closer to the door is plausible, but, as you have suggested on other threads that she was moved from the crawl space just doesn't work for me. if that is what you suggest, it doesn't make sense because JBR would have been covered in dirt and debris from the crawl space...
    What's the crawl space??
    And does anyone think she was put in the freezer, Ive never seen the freezer and have also heard it referred to as the walk in fridge. Was there any food in there? I thought maybe I'd read it wasnt working....?

  8. #8
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    Aug 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
    BlueCrab,

    Where are you suggesting he moved the body from? To suggest he moved her closer to the door is plausible, but, as you have suggested on other threads that she was moved from the crawl space just doesn't work for me. if that is what you suggest, it doesn't make sense because JBR would have been covered in dirt and debris from the crawl space...

    Voice of Reason,

    I have never suggested that JonBenet's body was ever in the crawl space.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    60
    apparently the wine cellar without the light switched on was very dark.
    this imo explains how fleet missed seeing the blanket wrapped body.
    unfortunately officer french didn`t open this door when he was there (at about 6am), if he had found the body the crime scene of course would of become a murder crime scene.
    seems to me just pure chance that the body wasn`t found straight away.
    the body itself had been lying in the position it was found for quite some time,livor mortis points towards this.
    how JR mentioned 11 oclock inadvertently i don`t know.
    although there is some slight chance that the body was moved from somewhere in keeping with the ransom note i.e "if we see you talking to police, F.B.I etc she dies"

    lawman

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawman

    the body itself had been lying in the position it was found for quite some time,livor mortis points towards this.

    lawman,

    Once livor mortis has set, the body can be moved without disturbing it.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Northern Vermont
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawman
    apparently the wine cellar without the light switched on was very dark.
    this imo explains how fleet missed seeing the blanket wrapped body.
    unfortunately officer french didn`t open this door when he was there (at about 6am), if he had found the body the crime scene of course would of become a murder crime scene.
    seems to me just pure chance that the body wasn`t found straight away.
    the body itself had been lying in the position it was found for quite some time,livor mortis points towards this.
    how JR mentioned 11 oclock inadvertently i don`t know.
    although there is some slight chance that the body was moved from somewhere in keeping with the ransom note i.e "if we see you talking to police, F.B.I etc she dies"

    lawman
    If she were deeper in the wine cellar (when Fleet White looked in it), her body could have been pulled closer to the door (at 11 am) without changing her position and changing the pattern of rigor mortis, IMO of course.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    60
    thanks for your replies.
    correct the body could be moved later, however if we assume this then does this mean the note writer was having a game with LE, a part of the whole crime ?

    lawman

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Voice of Reason,

    I have never suggested that JonBenet's body was ever in the crawl space.
    My apologies. I thought you had mentioned that in a previous thread.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    What's the crawl space??
    r

    narlacat,

    The crawl space is an area under the house that has a dirt floor. It is entered by way of a small half door in the basement. When searched, the crawl space contained a duffel bag of some kind. I don't remember if the bag had anything in it.

  15. #15
    Why does it have to be accepted that Fleet White is telling the truth about what he did or didnít see downstairs early in the morning?

    It seems very odd to me that he would make a point of going to have a look downstairs that morning so soon after his arrival at the house unless he had a good reason. And it seems to have been more than a look, it sounded like a thorough inspection. Why not leave that to the police? Wouldnít his place have been at the side of his friend in those first few hours?

    I think that when Fleet White went downstairs at 6.20 am, he did so to check that the body was where he had been told it had been left ie the wine cellar. He checked that the body was there and more importantly, that there was no incriminating evidence lying around, then went back upstairs and said he couldnít find anything. He lied and has continued to lie about what he did or didnít see and did or didnít do while he was down there alone. This is all only in my opinion.

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