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  1. #1
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    A Thought

    I just had a thought about the murder and want to run this by others. Suppose JR had been sexually molesting JB over an unknown period of time prior to 12-25. Knowing the family is about to depart on a long vacation, during which time he will not have access to her, JR feels the urge to molest her again on the night of 12-25, prior to the vacation. For privacy, JR has been taking JB down to the basement where the molestations take place. This had happened on multiple occasions before but this time something happened different than all previous times. This time PR discovered/caught JR in the act. Maybe JR thought PR was asleep and she wasn't. Maybe PR had suspected for some time and, finding JR missing from their bed, went to find him and ended up down in the basement? The key part of this theory is PR discovers the abuse, but her reaction to it is to, instead of holding her husband responsible for his actions, is to strike her daughter over the head with an object in complete emotional rage over what she has discovered and to, in her own head, hang on to her denial that anything is going on. Can you envision it? I can, but it is just a theory.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I just had a thought about the murder and want to run this by others. Suppose JR had been sexually molesting JB over an unknown period of time prior to 12-25. Knowing the family is about to depart on a long vacation, during which time he will not have access to her, JR feels the urge to molest her again on the night of 12-25, prior to the vacation. For privacy, JR has been taking JB down to the basement where the molestations take place. This had happened on multiple occasions before but this time something happened different than all previous times. This time PR discovered/caught JR in the act. Maybe JR thought PR was asleep and she wasn't. Maybe PR had suspected for some time and, finding JR missing from their bed, went to find him and ended up down in the basement? The key part of this theory is PR discovers the abuse, but her reaction to it is to, instead of holding her husband responsible for his actions, is to strike her daughter over the head with an object in complete emotional rage over what she has discovered and to, in her own head, hang on to her denial that anything is going on. Can you envision it? I can, but it is just a theory.
    I suspect quite a few people believe a scenario very similar to this. Someone was sexually abusing this child prior to her murder. I think this dovetails nicely with what I wrote about the strangulation device being something that was already crafted prior to the day of the murder.

    Perhaps on day we will know the truth.
    DISCLAIMER: The above is my OPINION only. Unless stated otherwise, I neither claim nor imply any inside knowledge or expert opinion about any subject I happen to be discussing. The reader assumes full responsibility for any conclusions my writing might cause them to reach. Warning: may cause drowsiness, do not operate heavy machinery while reading

  3. #3
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    I have long believed the first part of your theory. I just don't know which one actually bashed her over the head. I've figured John strangled her, then gave her the head bash to finish her off. Patsy may well have discovered him, and she wrote the note.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    I have long believed the first part of your theory. I just don't know which one actually bashed her over the head. I've figured John strangled her, then gave her the head bash to finish her off. Patsy may well have discovered him, and she wrote the note.
    Isn't it accepted by most that the head bash came first and the strangulation second? The sequence of those two events is of critical importance in understanding this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Texas View Post
    I suspect quite a few people believe a scenario very similar to this. Someone was sexually abusing this child prior to her murder. I think this dovetails nicely with what I wrote about the strangulation device being something that was already crafted prior to the day of the murder.

    Perhaps on day we will know the truth.
    The strangulation device was crafted while it was on her neck. There are Patsy fibers tied into it as well as JonBenet's hair. Please look at the paint tote location. Where the handle originated from.


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  6. #6
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    There was evidence to show that PR didn't go to bed at all that night. She was wearing the same clothes and makeup from the night before. Also, I can't be sure, but wasn't there evidence that she was up packing for the trip? So when this is added to the time of the reported scream and the pineapple digestion, I don't see how JR had the time to secretly molest JB. moo

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    Isn't it accepted by most that the head bash came first and the strangulation second? The sequence of those two events is of critical importance in understanding this.
    Every forensic specialist who has studied the case has believed the bash came first except Dr.Cyril Wecht. The detectives involved also feel the head bash came first. I agree. I think she was bashed because she screamed.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  8. #8
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    There was evidence to show that PR didn't go to bed at all that night. She was wearing the same clothes and makeup from the night before. Also, I can't be sure, but wasn't there evidence that she was up packing for the trip? So when this is added to the time of the reported scream and the pineapple digestion, I don't see how JR had the time to secretly molest JB. moo
    After the pineapple snack, JB goes to bed. John retrieves her and takes her down to the basement. Who knows where Patsy was in the house, packing??? JB screams when she is molested.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  9. #9
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    Isn't it accepted by most that the head bash came first and the strangulation second? The sequence of those two events is of critical importance in understanding this.
    I think it was a Erotic strangulation game gone wrong. The garrote was placed later for staging. The head bash was to finish her off when she didn't die by suffocation.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK View Post
    After the pineapple snack, JB goes to bed. John retrieves her and takes her down to the basement. Who knows where Patsy was in the house, packing??? JB screams when she is molested.
    I'm not sure about this, but weren't there some suitcases on JAR'S bed? And wasn't his room near JB's? If JR went into JB's room to retrieve her, PR would have seen or heard, IMO. The suitcases might have been there for another reason, IDK, because later PR said she just threw some things in a trash bag, I think. Those suitcases were out for a reason though, and IMO, packing for a trip is a pretty good reason. There were those suitcases, JAR's suitcase in the basement, and the 'adequate size attaché ' mentioned in the ransom note. A lot going on with suitcases. moo


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    I'm not sure about this, but weren't there some suitcases on JAR'S bed? And wasn't his room near JB's? If JR went into JB's room to retrieve her, PR would have seen or heard, IMO. The suitcases might have been there for another reason, IDK, because later PR said she just threw some things in a trash bag, I think. Those suitcases were out for a reason though, and IMO, packing for a trip is a pretty good reason. There were those suitcases, JAR's suitcase in the basement, and the 'adequate size attaché ' mentioned in the ransom note. A lot going on with suitcases. moo
    There were NO suitcases on JR's bed or in his room that were his. There was a suitcase in the basement train room (near the winecellar) described by his father as one JAR used to take laundry back and forth from his dorm room. That suitcase was moved by FW during his basement search to a position under the broken window, where Lou Smit and the RST jumped all over it, saying the "intruder" must have put it there to climb up on. This even after FW said he was the one who put it there. Inside that suitcase was found a comforter/duvet from his dorm room with his dried semen on it, along with a Dr. Seuss children's book. Odd pairing, unless you planned to read to a child while.....well, you get the picture.
    Patsy said she threw things in plastic bags for the private plane trip to save weight for the flight. But they would have used suitcases for the cruise, and they planned to come home after Charlevoix before leaving for the cruise.
    Patsy was packing for TWO trips- one to Charlevoix and one on the Disney Cruise to take place right after. There may have been suitcases, but they weren't his. Unless, of course, he was there after all, as so many believe, and was packing for the trip from there.
    JAR's room was right next to JB's. (Plenty of easy access there, no?) He came to the house on weekends. Most of JB's visits to the school nurse were on a Monday. Coincidence? You know what they say about coincidences, right? There are none.
    Also found in JAR's room was a thick rope (NOT the same as the cord)- the heavy twisted hemp-type. This was later placed in a brown paper evidence bag by police. Fibers from this hemp rope were found in JB's bed, but that would be expected, as she walked on the carpeted floors before getting into bed. This hemp rope may or may not have had anything to do with the crime. There are no marks on her to indicate this thick rope was used on her at all.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I just had a thought about the murder and want to run this by others. Suppose JR had been sexually molesting JB over an unknown period of time prior to 12-25. Knowing the family is about to depart on a long vacation, during which time he will not have access to her, JR feels the urge to molest her again on the night of 12-25, prior to the vacation. For privacy, JR has been taking JB down to the basement where the molestations take place. This had happened on multiple occasions before but this time something happened different than all previous times. This time PR discovered/caught JR in the act. Maybe JR thought PR was asleep and she wasn't. Maybe PR had suspected for some time and, finding JR missing from their bed, went to find him and ended up down in the basement? The key part of this theory is PR discovers the abuse, but her reaction to it is to, instead of holding her husband responsible for his actions, is to strike her daughter over the head with an object in complete emotional rage over what she has discovered and to, in her own head, hang on to her denial that anything is going on. Can you envision it? I can, but it is just a theory.
    Sounds a bit similar to my own theory.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    There was evidence to show that PR didn't go to bed at all that night. She was wearing the same clothes and makeup from the night before. Also, I can't be sure, but wasn't there evidence that she was up packing for the trip? So when this is added to the time of the reported scream and the pineapple digestion, I don't see how JR had the time to secretly molest JB. moo
    BBM~ Aren't there sets of staircases? It is possible JR took another route in the house, since it was large.

    Were there any tests done on JBR's bedding? TIA
    "One man's logic is another man's crazy" - Rossi (Criminal Minds)

  14. #14
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    Feb 2013
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    872

    A scream of pain or a scream of terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I just had a thought about the murder and want to run this by others. Suppose JR had been sexually molesting JB over an unknown period of time prior to 12-25. Knowing the family is about to depart on a long vacation, during which time he will not have access to her, JR feels the urge to molest her again on the night of 12-25, prior to the vacation. For privacy, JR has been taking JB down to the basement where the molestations take place. This had happened on multiple occasions before but this time something happened different than all previous times. This time PR discovered/caught JR in the act. Maybe JR thought PR was asleep and she wasn't. Maybe PR had suspected for some time and, finding JR missing from their bed, went to find him and ended up down in the basement? The key part of this theory is PR discovers the abuse, but her reaction to it is to, instead of holding her husband responsible for his actions, is to strike her daughter over the head with an object in complete emotional rage over what she has discovered and to, in her own head, hang on to her denial that anything is going on. Can you envision it? I can, but it is just a theory.
    The scream of pain is different than the scream of great fear. Whether she actually screamed or not, IDK, but if she did I remember this scream was described as a child in the grasp of terror. This would lead credence to your theory about being discovered by PR and the fear JB might have felt with PR's anger.

    Your theory is one I've looked at several times. Essentially, of course, IDK, but it is close to one of the scenarios I think could have happened. When I’ve viewed the photos of BR at JB’s funeral, there’s JR looking dignified and serene, there’s PR dressed like Jackie Kennedy, and there’s BR – like an afterthought, in a too small suit, not an arm around him, not much attention to him. PR had a friend of BR’s come along with his mother to provide someone to be with BR, a companion for him during this dark event and a "nanny" for BR. And the views of these 2 parents at the funeral lead me back to how immersed they were in themselves.

    I don’t know with any certainty why PR was the one to call 911, and while I can’t exclude any of the 3 of them for any of it, one of my theories is that the two adults were involved in JB's death and then reached some kind of uneasy détente between one another that night. The estrangement between them the morning of LA’s appearance, the accusatory admonition in the note to JR, paraphrasing: It’s up to you now J (to fix this.) And, for insurance, a dictionary pointing to the word “incest,” in case he did not protect her and the family. That dictionary wouldn't be open to that to point to BR imo. moo

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    There were NO suitcases on JR's bed or in his room that were his. There was a suitcase in the basement train room (near the winecellar) described by his father as one JAR used to take laundry back and forth from his dorm room. That suitcase was moved by FW during his basement search to a position under the broken window, where Lou Smit and the RST jumped all over it, saying the "intruder" must have put it there to climb up on. This even after FW said he was the one who put it there. Inside that suitcase was found a comforter/duvet from his dorm room with his dried semen on it, along with a Dr. Seuss children's book. Odd pairing, unless you planned to read to a child while.....well, you get the picture.
    Patsy said she threw things in plastic bags for the private plane trip to save weight for the flight. But they would have used suitcases for the cruise, and they planned to come home after Charlevoix before leaving for the cruise.
    Patsy was packing for TWO trips- one to Charlevoix and one on the Disney Cruise to take place right after. There may have been suitcases, but they weren't his. Unless, of course, he was there after all, as so many believe, and was packing for the trip from there.
    JAR's room was right next to JB's. (Plenty of easy access there, no?) He came to the house on weekends. Most of JB's visits to the school nurse were on a Monday. Coincidence? You know what they say about coincidences, right? There are none.
    Also found in JAR's room was a thick rope (NOT the same as the cord)- the heavy twisted hemp-type. This was later placed in a brown paper evidence bag by police. Fibers from this hemp rope were found in JB's bed, but that would be expected, as she walked on the carpeted floors before getting into bed. This hemp rope may or may not have had anything to do with the crime. There are no marks on her to indicate this thick rope was used on her at all.
    Thanks, I'd forgotten about the cruise ship packing.

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