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  1. #1
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    Arrow PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

    This is the thread on Ray Gricar, the former district attorney of Centre County, PA. Please continue the discussion here.

    Previous threads:
    Thread #1

    Thread #2

    Thread #3

    Thread #4

    Thread #5

    Thread#6

    Thread #7

    Thread #8

    Thread #9

    Thread #11






    Note that, perhaps uniquely on the Internet, these threads begin from the first week after Ray Gricar disappeared.

    Thank you,
    Seeking Jana
    Last edited by KateB; 04-11-2015 at 01:54 PM. Reason: fixed links

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    The last known place Ray Gricar visited

    I was re-watching Mr. Gricar's " Disappeared" segment to see more of the landscape and what Lewisburg looked like.
    I've asked this and there may be no possible answer. I know he went antiquing as a hobby. I know he was known to the proprietor and at least one shop girl at the Street of Shops.

    What intrigues me is that we have abbreviated the antique mall as the SOS for years. Is it known as that locally?
    Is there any likely association with his last known location having the abbreviation known to be a distress signal, " SOS"?

    He was/is a genius, IMO. Could he have stayed there for a prolonged time in order to be seen if he was either in jeopardy or wanted to perhaps give the impression that he was?

    This is not earth-shaking, however, in all the times we have discussed the SOS, even LC's discussion of the blonde clerk ( ), no one ever mentioned the shop's acronym.

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    Lightbulb Stop.Drop.Watch :)

    The Dateline series on Ray Gricar's disappearance is well worth watching. It clearly shows the huge divergence of opinion about what has happened to Mr Gricar. It was taped in two parts, one part aired as an hour show before Sandusky's crimes were known, and it, like the " Disappeared" show on I.D. channel, was updated partially in late 2011. There are 6 segments for the one show.

    This is the link to the first segment, which has links to the rest.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/45702425#45702425
    Last edited by SeekingJana; 11-08-2013 at 06:28 PM.

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    It was broadcast 12/16/11.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    It was broadcast 12/16/11.
    Is the exact date significant, as in, am I missing something? I just rewatched this video too, and I think some of the footage was " older" and some of it was updated to include Sandusky's crimes, which, IMO, have no bearing on Mr. Gricar's disappearance. I included this info in my earlier post, for accuracy's sake.

    I wish we had access to the first and original " Dateline" and the original " Disappeared" before Sandusky reared his monstrous head. Both had more " talking head" segments, which were the parts I was wanting to focus on today. Darn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    Is the exact date significant, as in, am I missing something? I just rewatched this video too, and I think some of the footage was " older" and some of it was updated to include Sandusky's crimes, which, IMO, have no bearing on Mr. Gricar's disappearance. I included this info in my earlier post, for accuracy's sake.

    I wish we had access to the first and original " Dateline" and the original " Disappeared" before Sandusky reared his monstrous head. Both had more " talking head" segments, which were the parts I was wanting to focus on today. Darn.

    There was a Dateline in May of 2006. This primarily LE at the time, MTM and DZ, LG and PEF. I don't think TG was involved; BB was not.

    The transcript is here: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12756052/

    The existence of the "Mystery Woman" was first widely publicized at this time. It had been published in Cleveland Free Times originally; it was copied and posted here: District Attorney Ray Frank Gricar - Cold Case Investigations The date that I have for publication 11/16/05.

    The "Mystery Woman" may have been mentioned in the old Q & A site of the CDT even prior to that, over the summer of 2005.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-11-2015 at 01:53 PM. Reason: repair url tag.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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    Thank you, this is a treasure trove of info

    Thank you for some excellent case links. You are a treasure trove of info.
    For some reason, I've never saved Gricar case info on my computers. I think I've gone through 5 laptops since I started posting on the case, which is probably the reason.
    I have been searching in vain for the first "Dateline", so thanks for the transcript especially.

    I know there WAS a show which featured Steve Sloane with his famous quotes about " He would do this to outsmart the cops", paraphrased slightly, and other sound bytes from Sloane which really added to one's understanding of how Mr. Gricar might have used the case of Mel Wiley and the book 20/20 Vision to more or less leave non-detected but probably suspected as such.

    Were Sloane's statements and segments cut due to his personal circumstances, perhaps? I'm not finding what it is he used to say often and loudly in favor of his close friend walking away!! It's frustrating.

    Which, of all the documentation available to the public right at hand ( no forms need mailing, etc) do you consider to be the most vital, if any, and why?

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    One thing that really got to me today was listening to Darryl Zaccagni, former police chief, talking on the linked " Dateline" segment ( most recent one) about how the police looked for Ray AND a woman at all the local hotels, at the bus station and train station. NOTHING was said about looking for him alone at any of these places.
    Why was it a foregone conclusion that he was with the MW throughout the night of April 15th? I've never thought this was set in stone at all.

    The first " Dateline" transcript practically echoes the same. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12756052/


    "Darryl Zaccagni: We had a report in the street of shops that in the manís mind, he was with another woman. He described her as 5í9 , short brownish black hair your length, very good looking, in her 30s - early 40s maybe. He felt they were together but they werenít romantically together.
    Police canvassed hotels and homes nearby, searching for the mystery woman, with no luck."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    I know there WAS a show which featured Steve Sloane with his famous quotes about " He would do this to outsmart the cops", paraphrased slightly, and other sound bytes from Sloane which really added to one's understanding of how Mr. Gricar might have used the case of Mel Wiley and the book 20/20 Vision to more or less leave non-detected but probably suspected as such.
    Sloane was not in that one. It was on the Discovery Channel's Disappeared, which aired on 2/28/11, I think.

    Which, of all the documentation available to the public right at hand ( no forms need mailing, etc) do you consider to be the most vital, if any, and why?
    If we are including new stories, and limit it to the disappearance, I would say "Missed Leads." It provides a foundation. Most of what we have been talking about for months has a foundation there.

    It was a game changer: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/05/1...hurricane.html It changed how the case was investigated, the politics of it, public perception, provided some circumstantial evidence.

    Since the initial disappearance, there has never been a single thing that was so groundbreaking, and so changed everything so quickly.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Sloane was not in that one. It was on the Discovery Channel's Disappeared, which aired on 2/28/11, I think.



    If we are including new stories, and limit it to the disappearance, I would say "Missed Leads." It provides a foundation. Most of what we have been talking about for months has a foundation there.

    It was a game changer: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/05/1...hurricane.html It changed how the case was investigated, the politics of it, public perception, provided some circumstantial evidence.

    Since the initial disappearance, there has never been a single thing that was so groundbreaking, and so changed everything so quickly.
    Thanks for the lead on where to look for Sloane's segment. IMO, it's different, less material. I think they may have cut to include Sandusky.

    Agree with you that Bosak's column was a huge wake- up call to LE. I think that's the major and best thing to come of "Missed Leads" . Obviously, you can look back with a journalist's eyes and know what has impacted the totality of the case and public perception more than I can. It's hard to look backwards knowing these things now but not then, not all of them.

    I really appreciate your input.
    More recently and also probably more innately controversially, I'd say the 2 packets of financial data filed and gathered are hugely important case documents, but since the Financial Disclosure statements are not up on this site quite yet, it's not really fair to discuss them in depth without all interested parties being able to see them. So I won't.
    I also don't think I have the totality of what you obtained, although identical speaks for itself.... I have also not seen every document that Trackergd provided, just the summaries, which I think are important as they, too, show very low assets.
    No liabilities and very little, one might say token assets on Trackergd's forms which he/she has discussed here was extremely unexpected, by me at least.


  11. #11
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    This is a great blog post. Thank you for reposting it. http://www.centredaily.com/2010/05/1...hurricane.html

    I'd missed it, probably because there were so many things going on with the case at the time. I have always considered walkaway to be a valid possible explanation for Mr. Gricar's disappearance from the beginning, but of course, the belated info about the woman seen with Mr. Gricar at the SOS probably changed many minds and theories. I had always theorized that he might have left either with a female or to go to where a woman was waiting for him ( foreign country) but it was and is just part of my theories.
    Like most open-minded people, I have several theories, and some are open- ended as in-" I just don't know what happened, or what his fate".

    There are so many missing persons' cases here on WS, hundreds of missing adults, and for most of them, no matter how long missing( within a normal human lifespan) , NO ONE insists that the person is dead.. It seems to be a very respectful thing to hold onto hope and to keep looking for more missed clues. This is how I approach this case as well.

    Missing means missing in the absence of evidence of foul play, and there is NO evidence of foul play in this case at this time. None. Never has been.

  12. #12
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    Respectfully snipped, as always.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    Thanks for the lead on where to look for Sloane's segment. IMO, it's different, less material. I think they may have cut to include Sandusky.
    The only television program (excluding newscasts) that Sloane appeared in was Disappeared, on 2/28/11. I think that transcript is the full 2006 program, unredacted.


    More recently and also probably more innately controversially, I'd say the 2 packets of financial data filed and gathered are hugely important case documents, but since the Financial Disclosure statements are not up on this site quite yet, it's not really fair to discuss them in depth without all interested parties being able to see them. So I won't.
    I just loaded the redacted versions, so they should be up under my photos.

    There is not too much depth. RFG was required to report income, including interest income, from a single source, above $1300, including tax exempt income. He made no report of it. So, either RFG had no income, committed a misdemeanor by not reporting it, or wasn't bright enough to fill out a form after at least 18 years of doing so. I would say the third option approaches a zero percent chance for the explanation.

    That could explain why LE has drifted away from foul play and toward suicide or walkaway, among other things.

    I also don't think I have the totality of what you obtained, although identical speaks for itself.... I have also not seen every document that Trackergd provided, just the summaries, which I think are important as they, too, show very low assets.
    No liabilities and very little, one might say token assets on Trackergd's forms which he/she has discussed here was extremely unexpected, by me at least.

    I have not seen Trackergd's documentation, but their could be explanations, like most of RFG's money being in joint accounts.

    One question should be if RFG was doing any retirement planning. If not, that could be a good indication he wasn't planning to be around to collect it.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  13. #13
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    J.J., what do the Financial Disclosure statements, along with Trackergd's financial reports, indicate or suggest to you in toto?

    Note to Admin: I am asking an individual poster's opinion because this is the person who did the work and who has great knowledge of documentation of Income/ Gifts/ Owned property himself.

    Anyone is welcome to join us in discussion. This is not a " he said" then " she said" play by play. We genuinely want to know what happened to Ray F. Gricar. .
    Last edited by SeekingJana; 11-09-2013 at 12:55 AM.

  14. #14
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    Redacted Statement of Financial Interest

    Here are the redacted version of the 2004 form.
    Attached Files Attached Files


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  15. #15
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    The 2005 Statement of Financial Interest (Redacted)

    Note that only the street address and telephone is redacted and it is the same on both forms.
    Attached Files Attached Files


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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