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  1. #1
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    Explain BDI to me

    I have a strong intuition that JR did not kill his daughter. For that matter, I have a less strong intuition that PR did not kill her daughter. Excluding those two leaves BDI and IDI. I dismiss IDI as a fantasy, which leaves only BDI. Of the four possibilities, I think BDI is the strongest one, but I have real problems accepting it. I could see BR accidentally killing his sister, either by strangling her or by the head bash. An accidental killing is what would most make sense to me, but the head bash plus the later strangulation do not point to an accident. They indicate to me intentional murder, and I just cannot see BR doing it. I admit the behavior of the parents is just what they would do if they were lying and staging to hide what their son did, but the thing that gets me is BR doing both the head bash and the strangulation. For those who believe this, can you explain in such a way as to make it make sense to myself and others. I just need to be able to understand it because currently it makes zero sense to me how that could possibly happen or why.

  2. #2
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    I'm still up so will answer, even though not necessarily BDI. Imo, it's just a possibility based on Kolar's book. It might be very possible that a child did most of it if he went into a rage, really had SBP, and had gotten into trouble for sexually acting out previously. The head injury wasn't that long before death, and could have even been less than 90 minutes. I just don't see why strangling was done even if JonBenet did have marks on her neck. The "intruder" could have done that. If adults thought JonBenet dead, then no need to strangle. The fibers point to Patsy, but she could have had the kids Christmas, or red and black fleece jackets. An older child who is severely troubled could try to get rid of a sibling, and act out sexually during the attack if it was a compulsion. But, on the other hand, it seems like a child jabbing with the paintbrush handle might have caused more injury.
    Last edited by txsvicki; 11-15-2013 at 03:08 AM. Reason: to add

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I have a strong intuition that JR did not kill his daughter. For that matter, I have a less strong intuition that PR did not kill her daughter. Excluding those two leaves BDI and IDI. I dismiss IDI as a fantasy, which leaves only BDI. Of the four possibilities, I think BDI is the strongest one, but I have real problems accepting it. I could see BR accidentally killing his sister, either by strangling her or by the head bash. An accidental killing is what would most make sense to me, but the head bash plus the later strangulation do not point to an accident. They indicate to me intentional murder, and I just cannot see BR doing it. I admit the behavior of the parents is just what they would do if they were lying and staging to hide what their son did, but the thing that gets me is BR doing both the head bash and the strangulation. For those who believe this, can you explain in such a way as to make it make sense to myself and others. I just need to be able to understand it because currently it makes zero sense to me how that could possibly happen or why.
    Anyhoo,
    In a BDI theory BR assaults JonBenet and whacks her on the head. The rest can be the parents covering for him.

    Kolar's BDI starts in the breakfast bar and has JonBenet being relocated to the basement by BR.

    .

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I have a strong intuition that JR did not kill his daughter. For that matter, I have a less strong intuition that PR did not kill her daughter. Excluding those two leaves BDI and IDI. I dismiss IDI as a fantasy, which leaves only BDI. Of the four possibilities, I think BDI is the strongest one, but I have real problems accepting it. I could see BR accidentally killing his sister, either by strangling her or by the head bash. An accidental killing is what would most make sense to me, but the head bash plus the later strangulation do not point to an accident. They indicate to me intentional murder, and I just cannot see BR doing it. I admit the behavior of the parents is just what they would do if they were lying and staging to hide what their son did, but the thing that gets me is BR doing both the head bash and the strangulation. For those who believe this, can you explain in such a way as to make it make sense to myself and others. I just need to be able to understand it because currently it makes zero sense to me how that could possibly happen or why.
    Don't forget, there's also JARDI, although I don't know if people count that as RDI or IDI, given the circumstances.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  5. #5
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    AnaTeresa;9977145
    Don't forget, there's also JARDI, although I don't know if people count that as RDI or IDI, given the circumstances.
    I am not certain if that would be RDI or IDI either, but, IMO, it is almost as far fetched as IDI.

    I believe completely that both parents would cover for Burke. I do not believe that Patsy would cover for one of her stepchildren. John? Yes I can absolutely believe he would, but IMO there is too much evidence of Patsy's involvement in either the actual crime itself or at the very least the staging.

    Besides that, the other issue that has always bothered me was the distance between John and Patsy that morning. Not only physical but obviously emotionally, and it has always seemed to me that John was angry at Patsy. I had previously always leaned toward the Steve Thoomas theory, which would explain that anger. If, in fact, BDI, then maybe it was more of a "you are such a lousy mother, look what you created" attitude. However if it was JARI then I think the tables would be turned and it would Patsy displaying the anger.

    However, as I said, I don't think she would have covered for her stepson at any rate so her lack of anger means nothing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chlban View Post
    AnaTeresa;9977145

    I am not certain if that would be RDI or IDI either, but, IMO, it is almost as far fetched as IDI.

    I believe completely that both parents would cover for Burke. I do not believe that Patsy would cover for one of her stepchildren. John? Yes I can absolutely believe he would, but IMO there is too much evidence of Patsy's involvement in either the actual crime itself or at the very least the staging.

    Besides that, the other issue that has always bothered me was the distance between John and Patsy that morning. Not only physical but obviously emotionally, and it has always seemed to me that John was angry at Patsy. I had previously always leaned toward the Steve Thoomas theory, which would explain that anger. If, in fact, BDI, then maybe it was more of a "you are such a lousy mother, look what you created" attitude. However if it was JARI then I think the tables would be turned and it would Patsy displaying the anger.

    However, as I said, I don't think she would have covered for her stepson at any rate so her lack of anger means nothing.
    It is far-fetched, but I have seen some decent arguments on the board before making a pitch for it. For me, I waffle, but lean towards BDI, because it's the only way both parents can logically be coerced into cooperating. A lot of irrational actions make sense, if you look at it through the lens of protecting their son.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chlban View Post
    AnaTeresa;9977145



    Besides that, the other issue that has always bothered me was the distance between John and Patsy that morning. Not only physical but obviously emotionally, and it has always seemed to me that John was angry at Patsy.
    I believe they agreed to cover (for Burke?) but they did not agree on how to go about it, which is why we have a cover up that makes no sense and J&P distant. Towards the end the ransom note reads like an angry wife, also.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Anyhoo,
    In a BDI theory BR assaults JonBenet and whacks her on the head. The rest can be the parents covering for him.

    Kolar's BDI starts in the breakfast bar and has JonBenet being relocated to the basement by BR.

    .
    I've not been able to purchase the book yet, but have read everyone's accounts of the book, and didn't realize anyone thought B moved JonBenet to the basement.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I have a strong intuition that JR did not kill his daughter. For that matter, I have a less strong intuition that PR did not kill her daughter. Excluding those two leaves BDI and IDI. I dismiss IDI as a fantasy, which leaves only BDI. Of the four possibilities, I think BDI is the strongest one, but I have real problems accepting it. I could see BR accidentally killing his sister, either by strangling her or by the head bash. An accidental killing is what would most make sense to me, but the head bash plus the later strangulation do not point to an accident. They indicate to me intentional murder, and I just cannot see BR doing it. I admit the behavior of the parents is just what they would do if they were lying and staging to hide what their son did, but the thing that gets me is BR doing both the head bash and the strangulation. For those who believe this, can you explain in such a way as to make it make sense to myself and others. I just need to be able to understand it because currently it makes zero sense to me how that could possibly happen or why.
    You’ve described the exact thing about this that mystifies anyone who looks at all the known facts of JonBenet’s death. The only way a person can understand or rationalize the actions and behaviors of JR and PR is by considering that they were covering for BR. But if they are, exactly what is he responsible for and what was done by the parents to hide what really happened? Most people who dismiss BDI do so by saying he was physically incapable (because they don’t understand the physics), or because there’s no evidence that he ever had or ever would have done anything to harm his sister.

    Really? We don’t know what (if anything) the medical records of both children would say if they had ever been looked at. But you have to ask yourself here why the good doctor was so adamant about not disclosing any information -- to the point that he even said he would burn the records before letting anyone see them. Why would the doctor of a “murdered” child refuse to help the people investigating her death? Doctor/patient confidentiality? The doctor/patient confidentiality privilege does not extend after a person’s death when it is that person’s death that is being investigated. A simple subpoena duces tecum (subpoena for production of evidence) overrides that privilege. The only reason the Ramseys were granted an “island of privacy” was as an incentive to get them to agree to an on-the-record interview (with their lawyers present yet) because they were dealing with a neutered DA. (But I got sidetracked.) The point is that we don't know what those medical records would have told us, or why the doctor was willing to risk liability himself to keep the records from being seen.

    Some have heard what I think happened, so if they want they can skip the rest of my post. I’ll try to explain how I think it happened for the sake of anyone who doesn’t.

    People are not just either good or bad -- an angel or a devil. Things aren’t always black and white. Sometimes “good people” do bad things. I don’t think BR was the epitome of evil who viciously murdered his sister. But I don’t think he was an angel either. I think there were influences in his life that caused him to act out in the ways that he did. Maybe he had himself been molested (there is evidence that makes me think that’s a possibility), but we don’t know that. Whatever the reason, he seems to have had some sexual curiosities awakened around this time in his life. Some kids do develop these curiosities earlier than others and we call them precocious. Maybe it was from one of the older boys he hung around with. Throw in here the questionable circumstances around the events of the party earlier in the week, and I have a lot of suspicion that BR and some of his friends had discovered that they could talk a younger and more naïve JonBenet into things that she would have known better than were she a little older. Patsy made her compliant and taught her what to do to “please the judges”. She taught her to act “sexy”. JonBenet even said that for Halloween she wanted to be “a sexy witch”. Just where does a six-year-old get a thought like that? (Answer: Patsy.)

    So now you have a situation where BR’s suggestion that they “play a game” could have an effect. I think he led her down to the basement (maybe even bribed her with a little kindness and pineapple) as far away from where Patsy and JR were, and where he would hear anyone coming long before they could get to where they were at. I think that it was there that he tied the cord loosely around her neck and then tied the other end to something else in the room. It could have even been the doorknob of the door going into the WC. This might have been part of the game of pretending to be a “kitty”, as Patsy said JonBenet liked to do. Once restrained like this, BR coerced her into letting him “explore” to satisfy his curiosity. I’ll leave out details of how this might have happened, but you can fill in the blanks.

    Now like this, the stage is set up for one single action that would change everything from that point on. Kids don’t realize when they do something that can haphazardly place themselves or others in a dangerous situation, and they don’t always think things out. But imagine how a wrong move by an unknowing young boy to a delicate girl that caused her a sudden pain, maybe a frightening amount of blood, and her first reaction is to scream. Not wanting to get caught and suffer the consequences, his reaction is to tell her to stop screaming. But she’s scared and keeps screaming until he grabs something and hits her over the head with it. No rage, no ill will toward his sister, no intent to cause harm, and certainly no intent to commit murder... just a quick reaction to his desire to shut her up quick. This head blow is enough to cause unconsciousness. Her body collapses, pulling on the cord. The knot capsizes making it act like a slipknot, and it tightens around her neck. Panicked, he may have tried to raise her up and get the cord from around her neck. It could have been then that her shoulder scraped against the wall causing the abrasion, or it could have happened when her body collapsed. Either one of the injuries could have caused her death, but the combination of the two worked to cause her to die in a short amount of time. Still struggling to get her loose, the cord slipped from its position below her Adam’s apple to a higher position on her neck causing the petechial hemorrhages in the midline of her neck as the cord rolled over and caught her necklace. If she was tied to something at a height of the doorknob, his trying to lift her might have continued to cause further tightening of the cord in the position it was left on her neck.

    At this point, I don’t know if he gave up and decided he should get his parents, or if someone upstairs heard the scream and decided to go investigate. But for whatever the reason, this is where PR and JR get involved and try to figure out what to do. They find their daughter dangling on the end of a cord with blood between her legs. JR would immediately cut the cord to get her down and then check to see if she was dead or still alive. [By itself, the strangulation would cause unconsciousness in ten to fifteen seconds. Respiration would decrease and stop within a few minutes, and unless there is a rare but nevertheless possible vasovagal response causing cardiac arrhythmia (Wecht’s famous vagus nerve reflex), the heart would continue beating for one or two more minutes. This can all vary on circumstances and the person’s overall health, but usually within four to five minutes the process of dying is complete.]

    Do the Ramseys call the police now and risk losing their son, their public image, their fortune... or should they try to cover it up to where no one would suspect him of molesting his sister and causing her death? Do they call anyone in the middle of the night for advice, or just wing it with what knowledge they have of what happened? I don’t think they even knew then that she had been hit over the head. It could be that BR only said that she fell while they were playing with the cord around her neck -- it was an accident. Of course, he couldn’t hide the fact of the sexual aspect, so he would have to admit to that. And therein lies the reason they decided to cover up what happened. They thought they could hide that by cleaning up the blood and changing her clothes. The obvious ligature strangulation could not be hidden (and there was also that God-awful spot on the left side of her neck caused by a burst blood vessel when the cord tightened), so they decided to leave the cord where it was around her neck, but change it just enough to throw off investigators on exactly how it happened (as well as how the paintbrush handle had actually been used). Break off the ends and tie the end of the cord around her neck to it and it then looks like it had been used to pull the cord. Use the piece of cord that was cut off when she was cut down from the suspension to tie it to her wrists and it looks like she had been restrained by some unknown assailant. Write a ransom note saying not to contact anyone or she dies, and it explains why she was killed. They desperately wanted to hide the fact that she had been sexually assaulted. It makes no sense to think that they would poke the paintbrush into her as cover for past molestations and then clean up the blood to hide it. Their thinking was to obscure how it all happened and create “evidence” that would point away from themselves.

    In order to deflect suspicion from themselves, they concocted the story that JonBenet was asleep and carried to bed when they returned home. Nothing could have happened to her in their home at the hands of any one of the family members because they all went to bed after they got home -- everyone was asleep. BR was told that he would have to stay in his bed and pretend to have been asleep all night. What they didn’t take into account was that the autopsy would show that pineapple had been consumed shortly before she died and too late for it to have been eaten at the party earlier in the evening. That is the significance of the pineapple: The pineapple is proof that she was awake after they got home, and proof also that they lied.

    BR was there in the room with them while the 911 call was made. But they lied and said he was sound asleep, thus removing him from the picture and free from any questions. Why else should they have lied about BR being their? What would be suspicious about him being up had they actually discovered that JonBenet had been kidnapped? The only reason for that lie is to shield him from suspicion and prevent him from being questioned.

    When BR heard everything his mother said on the 911 call, what did he ask? Was it, “What happened to JonBenet?” “Who took JonBenet?” “Is she gonna be alright?” No, he asked, “What did you find?” He asked that because he didn’t know anything about the ransom note. He knew what happened to JonBenet -- he just didn't know where the ransom note came from that he heard his mother tell the 911 operator about.

    There are those who will tell you there are no signs that she was ever suspended. What they won’t tell you (if they know) is that there is no difference in the manner of death between someone pulling the cord and the cord being pulled by the victim’s weight. The only difference between the neck injuries is dependent on the person remaining suspended while the neck swells and the furrow forms. If the person remains suspended, there will be an inverted “V” pattern where the knot is located because that part of the ligature is being pulled away from the victim’s neck in the opposite direction of gravity. If they remain suspended, the furrow will also be deeper and more prominent on the side opposite the knot. If however the victim is removed from the suspension, it is no longer being pulled and the ligature will distribute itself circumferentially around the neck while the furrow is formed.


    Reference:
    http://www.markwynn.com/wp-content/u...angulation.pdf
    http://medind.nic.in/jal/t05/i1/jalt05i1p10.pdf
    http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ligature.html
    http://books.google.com/books?id=GGR...page&q&f=false
    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Forensic-Pathology-Practical-Criminal-Investigations/dp/084930072X"]Forensic Pathology, Second Edition (Practical Aspects of Criminal & Forensic Investigations): Dominick DiMaio, Vincent J.M. DiMaio M.D.: 9780849300721: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51y8SBdHDlL.@@AMEPARAM@@51y8SBdHDlL[/ame]

    All views expressed in my posts are my opinion and are protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as “freedom of speech.”

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    You’ve described the exact thing about this that mystifies anyone who looks at all the known facts of JonBenet’s death. The only way a person can understand or rationalize the actions and behaviors of JR and PR is by considering that they were covering for BR. But if they are, exactly what is he responsible for and what was done by the parents to hide what really happened? Most people who dismiss BDI do so by saying he was physically incapable (because they don’t understand the physics), or because there’s no evidence that he ever had or ever would have done anything to harm his sister.

    Really? We don’t know what (if anything) the medical records of both children would say if they had ever been looked at. But you have to ask yourself here why the good doctor was so adamant about not disclosing any information -- to the point that he even said he would burn the records before letting anyone see them. Why would the doctor of a “murdered” child refuse to help the people investigating her death? Doctor/patient confidentiality? The doctor/patient confidentiality privilege does not extend after a person’s death when it is that person’s death that is being investigated. A simple subpoena duces tecum (subpoena for production of evidence) overrides that privilege. The only reason the Ramseys were granted an “island of privacy” was as an incentive to get them to agree to an on-the-record interview (with their lawyers present yet) because they were dealing with a neutered DA. (But I got sidetracked.) The point is that we don't know what those medical records would have told us, or why the doctor was willing to risk liability himself to keep the records from being seen.

    Some have heard what I think happened, so if they want they can skip the rest of my post. I’ll try to explain how I think it happened for the sake of anyone who doesn’t.

    People are not just either good or bad -- an angel or a devil. Things aren’t always black and white. Sometimes “good people” do bad things. I don’t think BR was the epitome of evil who viciously murdered his sister. But I don’t think he was an angel either. I think there were influences in his life that caused him to act out in the ways that he did. Maybe he had himself been molested (there is evidence that makes me think that’s a possibility), but we don’t know that. Whatever the reason, he seems to have had some sexual curiosities awakened around this time in his life. Some kids do develop these curiosities earlier than others and we call them precocious. Maybe it was from one of the older boys he hung around with. Throw in here the questionable circumstances around the events of the party earlier in the week, and I have a lot of suspicion that BR and some of his friends had discovered that they could talk a younger and more naïve JonBenet into things that she would have known better than were she a little older. Patsy made her compliant and taught her what to do to “please the judges”. She taught her to act “sexy”. JonBenet even said that for Halloween she wanted to be “a sexy witch”. Just where does a six-year-old get a thought like that? (Answer: Patsy.)

    So now you have a situation where BR’s suggestion that they “play a game” could have an effect. I think he led her down to the basement (maybe even bribed her with a little kindness and pineapple) as far away from where Patsy and JR were, and where he would hear anyone coming long before they could get to where they were at. I think that it was there that he tied the cord loosely around her neck and then tied the other end to something else in the room. It could have even been the doorknob of the door going into the WC. This might have been part of the game of pretending to be a “kitty”, as Patsy said JonBenet liked to do. Once restrained like this, BR coerced her into letting him “explore” to satisfy his curiosity. I’ll leave out details of how this might have happened, but you can fill in the blanks.

    Now like this, the stage is set up for one single action that would change everything from that point on. Kids don’t realize when they do something that can haphazardly place themselves or others in a dangerous situation, and they don’t always think things out. But imagine how a wrong move by an unknowing young boy to a delicate girl that caused her a sudden pain, maybe a frightening amount of blood, and her first reaction is to scream. Not wanting to get caught and suffer the consequences, his reaction is to tell her to stop screaming. But she’s scared and keeps screaming until he grabs something and hits her over the head with it. No rage, no ill will toward his sister, no intent to cause harm, and certainly no intent to commit murder... just a quick reaction to his desire to shut her up quick. This head blow is enough to cause unconsciousness. Her body collapses, pulling on the cord. The knot capsizes making it act like a slipknot, and it tightens around her neck. Panicked, he may have tried to raise her up and get the cord from around her neck. It could have been then that her shoulder scraped against the wall causing the abrasion, or it could have happened when her body collapsed. Either one of the injuries could have caused her death, but the combination of the two worked to cause her to die in a short amount of time. Still struggling to get her loose, the cord slipped from its position below her Adam’s apple to a higher position on her neck causing the petechial hemorrhages in the midline of her neck as the cord rolled over and caught her necklace. If she was tied to something at a height of the doorknob, his trying to lift her might have continued to cause further tightening of the cord in the position it was left on her neck.

    At this point, I don’t know if he gave up and decided he should get his parents, or if someone upstairs heard the scream and decided to go investigate. But for whatever the reason, this is where PR and JR get involved and try to figure out what to do. They find their daughter dangling on the end of a cord with blood between her legs. JR would immediately cut the cord to get her down and then check to see if she was dead or still alive. [By itself, the strangulation would cause unconsciousness in ten to fifteen seconds. Respiration would decrease and stop within a few minutes, and unless there is a rare but nevertheless possible vasovagal response causing cardiac arrhythmia (Wecht’s famous vagus nerve reflex), the heart would continue beating for one or two more minutes. This can all vary on circumstances and the person’s overall health, but usually within four to five minutes the process of dying is complete.]

    Do the Ramseys call the police now and risk losing their son, their public image, their fortune... or should they try to cover it up to where no one would suspect him of molesting his sister and causing her death? Do they call anyone in the middle of the night for advice, or just wing it with what knowledge they have of what happened? I don’t think they even knew then that she had been hit over the head. It could be that BR only said that she fell while they were playing with the cord around her neck -- it was an accident. Of course, he couldn’t hide the fact of the sexual aspect, so he would have to admit to that. And therein lies the reason they decided to cover up what happened. They thought they could hide that by cleaning up the blood and changing her clothes. The obvious ligature strangulation could not be hidden (and there was also that God-awful spot on the left side of her neck caused by a burst blood vessel when the cord tightened), so they decided to leave the cord where it was around her neck, but change it just enough to throw off investigators on exactly how it happened (as well as how the paintbrush handle had actually been used). Break off the ends and tie the end of the cord around her neck to it and it then looks like it had been used to pull the cord. Use the piece of cord that was cut off when she was cut down from the suspension to tie it to her wrists and it looks like she had been restrained by some unknown assailant. Write a ransom note saying not to contact anyone or she dies, and it explains why she was killed. They desperately wanted to hide the fact that she had been sexually assaulted. It makes no sense to think that they would poke the paintbrush into her as cover for past molestations and then clean up the blood to hide it. Their thinking was to obscure how it all happened and create “evidence” that would point away from themselves.

    In order to deflect suspicion from themselves, they concocted the story that JonBenet was asleep and carried to bed when they returned home. Nothing could have happened to her in their home at the hands of any one of the family members because they all went to bed after they got home -- everyone was asleep. BR was told that he would have to stay in his bed and pretend to have been asleep all night. What they didn’t take into account was that the autopsy would show that pineapple had been consumed shortly before she died and too late for it to have been eaten at the party earlier in the evening. That is the significance of the pineapple: The pineapple is proof that she was awake after they got home, and proof also that they lied.

    BR was there in the room with them while the 911 call was made. But they lied and said he was sound asleep, thus removing him from the picture and free from any questions. Why else should they have lied about BR being their? What would be suspicious about him being up had they actually discovered that JonBenet had been kidnapped? The only reason for that lie is to shield him from suspicion and prevent him from being questioned.

    When BR heard everything his mother said on the 911 call, what did he ask? Was it, “What happened to JonBenet?” “Who took JonBenet?” “Is she gonna be alright?” No, he asked, “What did you find?” He asked that because he didn’t know anything about the ransom note. He knew what happened to JonBenet -- he just didn't know where the ransom note came from that he heard his mother tell the 911 operator about.

    There are those who will tell you there are no signs that she was ever suspended. What they won’t tell you (if they know) is that there is no difference in the manner of death between someone pulling the cord and the cord being pulled by the victim’s weight. The only difference between the neck injuries is dependent on the person remaining suspended while the neck swells and the furrow forms. If the person remains suspended, there will be an inverted “V” pattern where the knot is located because that part of the ligature is being pulled away from the victim’s neck in the opposite direction of gravity. If they remain suspended, the furrow will also be deeper and more prominent on the side opposite the knot. If however the victim is removed from the suspension, it is no longer being pulled and the ligature will distribute itself circumferentially around the neck while the furrow is formed.


    Reference:
    http://www.markwynn.com/wp-content/u...angulation.pdf
    http://medind.nic.in/jal/t05/i1/jalt05i1p10.pdf
    http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ligature.html
    http://books.google.com/books?id=GGR...page&q&f=false
    Forensic Pathology, Second Edition (Practical Aspects of Criminal & Forensic Investigations): Dominick DiMaio, Vincent J.M. DiMaio M.D.: 9780849300721: Amazon.com: Books
    Otg, you explained this better than I possibly could.

    It took me years to come to the conclusion that BDI. I don't know why. I think I just didn't want to go there. Once I did come to that conclusion it became more evident to me that BDI.

    My version of what and where things happened are a little different but it all ends up the same. I think BDI and PR and JR did the clean up. JMO


  11. #11
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    Mar 2010
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    Southern Utah
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    1,688
    I realized that I had forgotten this until I read otg's post: 35 years ago, our friends had a 6yo daughter and an 8yo son. they found out that the son and his 11yo uncle (the dad's half-brother) had been molesting the little girl for about 2 years. which means it started when she was 4 and the boys were 6 and 9. they found out because the activity was progressing to the point where she became afraid to tolerate it any longer, and she told on them. the mom wanted to call the cops but the dad was vehemently against it and he got his way. the boys got a stern lecture (BFD) and the uncle wasn't allowed access to the girl any longer but the brother, of course, lived in the home. there wasn't any counseling or professional intervention for any of the kids. the brother had been seriously defiant since he was a toddler and ruined nearly every gathering at their home with his antics, and when they came to our house I had to psych myself up to stand being around that kid. then the revelation of how the parents decided to handle the situation caused a serious rift in our friendship. and now I wonder why the dad was so against calling the cops ...
    _____________
    You may touch the dust but please don't write in it.
    _____________
    The way I see it is: if you are making a decision that will affect someone else's life, prepare for public scrutiny.
    ~ VICE journalist Tim Pool
    _____________
    Beware Of The Dog. The Cat Is Not Trustworthy Either.
    _____________
    Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow.
    Do not walk beside me either. Just pretty much leave me alone.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    7,941
    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    I've not been able to purchase the book yet, but have read everyone's accounts of the book, and didn't realize anyone thought B moved JonBenet to the basement.
    txsvicki,
    Kolar mentioned the moving of the body in one of his talks with Tricia, its available for download at talkradio.com. Kolar never mentioned BR explicitly but all his evidence points to BR.

    I doubt BR moved JonBenet to the basement, in fact I doubt a lot of stuff that people think happened in the basement ever took place there!

    I reckon Kolar has a pretty good idea what took place on 12/25/1996, and where. He just cannot refer to it directly since he is constrained by Colorado's statutes.

    .

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    3,982
    Thanks button on the fritz this morning.

    Otg: excellent post!

    For me what shows Ramsey involvement is not necessarily any one single thing. Rather it's the totality of evidence and behaviors. As for BDI, several things stand out.:

    *the parents clearly lied. How many other lies are there that we don't know about? Why do people lie? There are really only 2 motivations for lying...to deflect blame away from oneself, or to protect someone else. The lies/cover up was perpetuated for a very long time...generally speaking, this isn't too common when one spouse is covering for another.

    *evidence of JRB/BR "playing doctor." How far did that go? (This is totally MOO, and based on how I see this point relative to my own experience, but how often does such behavior happen among siblings? To me it's not common? && according to the housekeeper, it went beyond, you show me yours and I'll show you mine)

    *the medical records. They're critical, perhaps the most critical. What was being suppressed? The fact that not only were JRBs records withheld, but also Bs is highly suspicious.

    Again it's the totality of things, but these 3 points are the most critical....

    Oh, and let's not forget, Kolar knows a hell of a lot more than we do.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    3,487
    otg explained my theory on the situation better than I ever could have.
    I speak fluently in reaction gifs.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Arlington, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    So now you have a situation where BR’s suggestion that they “play a game” could have an effect. I think he led her down to the basement (maybe even bribed her with a little kindness and pineapple) as far away from where Patsy and JR were, and where he would hear anyone coming long before they could get to where they were at. I think that it was there that he tied the cord loosely around her neck and then tied the other end to something else in the room. It could have even been the doorknob of the door going into the WC. This might have been part of the game of pretending to be a “kitty”, as Patsy said JonBenet liked to do. Once restrained like this, BR coerced her into letting him “explore” to satisfy his curiosity. I’ll leave out details of how this might have happened, but you can fill in the blanks.

    Newbie poster and former lurker here. I've always found your posts insightful and well-reasoned!

    But about that garrote: wouldn't a simpler explanation be that it was used to expedite death?

    My uneducated guess: headbash occurred first. JB knocked unconscious, but still alive. The perps needed to "finish her off". Hence the strangulation. In addition, the perps were providing staging for what they imagined to be a sexual predator, so they needed to violate her sexually in some way (and also to cover up for past abuse) in order to create the narrative. It would have been far too horrific to violate JB with a paintbrush if she were still alive. The only way to do it is make sure she has passed away first, so in the perp's mind you are only violating an inanimate object, and not your daughter.

    Was it ever established if the paintbrush violation occurred prior to death? Because then that blows a hole in my theory.

    And FYI: a certain someone doesn't appear to be aging very gracefully, if you look at their current fb photo. Used to be a good looking kid, but now looks a little spazzed.

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