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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    Ahhhh the old "The DNA is crap" argument.

    Let's break it down...

    LE brought in blood and cadaver dogs.

    Neither should have alerted but Grime is on record saying Eddie the Cadaver dog got wildly excited when he entered 5a, which means he smelled cadaver. He went on to indicate in a few select spots in the apartment, Kate's clothing, cuddle cat, the Renault.

    Bear in mind the dogs were owned and trained by the British police and Grime was actually PC Grime at the time. He got paid no matter what the dogs found, there was no ulterior motive.

    So, swabs were taken at these few alert sites.

    DNA consistent with Madeleine was found at these isolated spots - exactly where the dogs said it would be.

    I could stop there - in most universes the DNA would be enough to charge the parents.

    Team McCann worked their PR magic, dismissing the DNA as rubbish, doesn't prove anything.

    The thing with the DNA is, it was low copy. This means it has to be amplified artificially which is when the scientific certainty is diluted - we had 15 out of 19 alleles belonging ONLY to Madeleine.

    Evidentiary DNA has to be 100%. The DNA in Madeleine case is not 100% certainty, more like 80%.

    What cannot be dismissed is the fact that McCann DNA existed at all in the cadaver alert sites.

    In most cases, such as Caylees, the dogs alert is sufficient for LE to lay charges, per Casey Anthony. In the McCann case the reaction was to publicly denigrate both the dogs and the science - hence the "Dogs/DNA are crap" argument we see constantly regurgitated by McCann supporters.

    All while totally ignoring genuine evidence - just like suppressing the e-fit.

    What grieving, bereft parent does THAT!???!

    The parents went out of their way to diss the dogs from the start..they initially said they were rubbish as they alerted in eugene zapata case in the usa and the courts threw then out or something then turned out zapata did kill his wife and the dogs were right

    then Kate Mccann lies in her book that cadaver scent only lasts a month and she libels imo the dog handler Mr Grime saying his dogs only barked to please him
    !!!!!

    how sad is THAT!!


    Gerry Mccann then went on tv and said cadaver dogs are "incredibly unreliable"


    Well, I think they are more reliable and credibe than HIM and is mrs LOL

  2. #62
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    Little Jedi is offline "I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally" W. C. Fields
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    Talking



    RED = EVRD - Cadaver ( Eddie )
    ORANGE = CSI - Human Blood ( Keela )

    *You'd think they could've picked better key colours !!
    " The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know. "
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchbag View Post
    The parents went out of their way to diss the dogs from the start..they initially said they were rubbish as they alerted in eugene zapata case in the usa and the courts threw then out or something then turned out zapata did kill his wife and the dogs were right

    then Kate Mccann lies in her book that cadaver scent only lasts a month and she libels imo the dog handler Mr Grime saying his dogs only barked to please him
    !!!!!

    how sad is THAT!!


    Gerry Mccann then went on tv and said cadaver dogs are "incredibly unreliable"


    Well, I think they are more reliable and credibe than HIM and is mrs LOL
    We have an example of their amazing capabilities in the Long Island SK case.

    That killing field was only located because an off duty cadaver dog and his handler were taking a stroll.

    No one even knew the victims were missing.

    How's that for "incredibly unreliable"....that dog went nuts all over the area, locating all the bodies long forgotten by the world.
    Everything I post is my opinion only, can change at any time, and is not intended to replace fact.
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  4. #64
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    Little Jedi is offline "I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally" W. C. Fields
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post

    And look at this, the fss are just the expert witnesses they do not order arrests. So why does amaral claim that when the DNA analysis said it could not be identified as madeleines prior called fss and yelled at them saying did they think the Portuguese were stupid and this would be enough to arrest someone in the UK ( which is a lie). All that comes across as is prior trying to get the fss to alter the findings which I don't believe prior did.
    [modsnip]

    BBM You've got that the wrong way around.
    Stuart Prior wanted to know why FSS had altered their Initial Report.

    ALSO

    FSS DID NOT say the "DNA could not be identified as Madelines"
    Last edited by Salem; 01-21-2014 at 11:29 PM. Reason: No need to yell and can you please link this up? Thanks!
    " The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know. "
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchbag View Post
    So many words..and jumping up and down on a trampolene.......oh well.....keep calm and carry on trying on to convince?..preferrably with just TRUTHS...that would be ok but less of the untruths thanks...

    Ps you are wrong the csi dog reacts to any blood, old and new....
    I was talking about the evrd which only alerts to old blood, and which did not alert to the DNA found in the boot. So if you think the dog is reliable it means the DNA was fresh from a living person in July months after Madeleine disappeared.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireSteel View Post
    We have an example of their amazing capabilities in the Long Island SK case.

    That killing field was only located because an off duty cadaver dog and his handler were taking a stroll.

    No one even knew the victims were missing.

    How's that for "incredibly unreliable"....that dog went nuts all over the area, locating all the bodies long forgotten by the world.
    How can you compare a dog that found several rotting corpses to a dog that barked at areas it previously ignored by saying that because one dog found bodies the other dog must be reliable at indicating where a body touched. The dog did not find the body of Madeleine McCann therefore it did not succeed.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jedi View Post


    RED = EVRD - Cadaver ( Eddie )
    ORANGE = CSI - Human Blood ( Keela )

    *You'd think they could've picked better key colours !!
    That picture states the evrd alerted in the boot, grime states it did not. It also states it alerted to cuddle cat yet a video was released showing Eddie playing with cuddle cat but not alerting.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jedi View Post
    [modsnip]

    BBM You've got that the wrong way around.
    Stuart Prior wanted to know why FSS had altered their Initial Report.

    ALSO

    FSS DID NOT say the "DNA could not be identified as Madelines"
    Yes it did, it stated it could not be said to be madeleines.
    And you quoted amaral as saying Stuart prior telephoned the expert witnesses yelling did they think the Portuguese were stupid and this would be enough to arrest someone in the UK. It would not be enough ( even if it was madeleines since her belongings were in the car) and it's nothing to do with fss if the PJ want to arrest someone. And the fss did not change their report they just pointed out that just because madeleines components were there did not mean it was hers and that the sample came from up to five people.
    Last edited by Salem; 01-21-2014 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Could you provide links, please.

  9. #69
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    Controversial FSS LCN DNA Techniques !!



    Right... this is gonna be very long & very boring explaining all details etc.

    So here's the basics :

    PART 1

    "Dozens of serious criminal cases are to be urgently reviewed after the worth of a controversial DNA technique was called into question. The spotlight will be thrown on a number of high-profile cases, including the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

    The Crown Prosecution Service ordered the re-examination of cases currently going through the courts after the judge who cleared Sean Hoey, the only man charged over the 29 Omagh bombing murders, queried its reliability.

    The Association of Chief Police Officers also announced it was suspending its use of the method called "low copy number" DNA.

    The Daily Mail (21st Dec 2007)
    " The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know. "
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  10. #70
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    And as for the off duty cadaver dog finding a body, a large number of bodies ate found by normal pet dogs. It does not mean if a pet dog or a cadaver dog barks its proof of murder.
    And Kate quoted the judge in that trial not the case itself, and Gerry us right when used in this manner the dogs are unreliable. The British police issued a report stating dogs like that hindered more than they helped. Eddie the evrd also alerted to coconut in one case.
    Last edited by Salem; 01-21-2014 at 11:32 PM. Reason: link the report please.


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    and as for the off duty cadaver dog finding a body, a large number of bodies ate found by normal pet dogs. It does not mean if a pet dog or a cadaver dog barks its proof of murder.
    And kate quoted the judge in that trial not the case itself, and gerry us right when used in this manner the dogs are unreliable. The british police issued a report stating dogs like that hindered more than they helped. Eddie the evrd also alerted to coconut in one case.
    Links ???q
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  12. #72
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    If Eddie was so reliable then why did he not find Madeleine if the McCann's hid her? They had no car, no private property, had an hour or so maximum to cover it up so she can only be thirty minutes on foot from 5a, yet she's not been found. And if he is so reliable why did he alert to a coconut in jersey just because police thought it was a skull.

    And Kate quoted the judge in the case not the case itself. And she was right the videos show that grime treated the dig differently at the McCann's car etc. It acts just the same to their car, but grime keeps calling it back time and time again. Similar story with cuddle cat, Eddie us seen ignoring it then after repeated calling barks near some wall unit and its later said he was barking at the toy which was supposedly put in the unit off camera ( we don't see it cone out of the unit until several minutes later during which Eddie and the camera are taken elsewhere).

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jedi View Post


    Right... this is gonna be very long & very boring explaining all details etc.

    So here's the basics :

    PART 1

    "Dozens of serious criminal cases are to be urgently reviewed after the worth of a controversial DNA technique was called into question. The spotlight will be thrown on a number of high-profile cases, including the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

    The Crown Prosecution Service ordered the re-examination of cases currently going through the courts after the judge who cleared Sean Hoey, the only man charged over the 29 Omagh bombing murders, queried its reliability.

    The Association of Chief Police Officers also announced it was suspending its use of the method called "low copy number" DNA.

    The Daily Mail (21st Dec 2007)
    That does not help your case as this was saying the lcn method is too innacurate to state DNA belongs to a particular person so by disgarding lcn and using other methods it means the DNA was even less likely to come back saying it belonged to Madeleine. Without lcn there is little that could be done with the DNA found as it was so small. Lcn is last chance saloon for getting a result from small amounts.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    If Eddie was so reliable then why did he not find Madeleine if the McCann's hid her? They had no car, no private property, had an hour or so maximum to cover it up so she can only be thirty minutes on foot from 5a, yet she's not been found. And if he is so reliable why did he alert to a coconut in jersey just because police thought it was a skull.

    And Kate quoted the judge in the case not the case itself. And she was right the videos show that grime treated the dig differently at the McCann's car etc. It acts just the same to their car, but grime keeps calling it back time and time again. Similar story with cuddle cat, Eddie us seen ignoring it then after repeated calling barks near some wall unit and its later said he was barking at the toy which was supposedly put in the unit off camera ( we don't see it cone out of the unit until several minutes later during which Eddie and the camera are taken elsewhere).
    Maybe if you actually read some of the info. about the dogs & the way they work, you would find the answers !
    " The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know. "
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jedi View Post


    For the LAST TIME :

    EVRD ALERTS TO SCENT
    ( kinda like a SMELL )

    THEN

    CSI brought in to search & alert for biologicals !!!

    As far as I am aware SCENT/SMELL doesn't leave DNA !!
    So what is your point regarding the DNA in the boot, could you directly state that. It comes across as if you think it was Madeleine McCann's blood in the boot and that it came from her living body since you say the evrd is reliable and he did not alert in the boot or indeed the body of the car.
    The fact is the fsS said it could be DNA from any number of people. More to the point Scotland yard and Portugal (and even amarals lawyer) said Madeleine McCann might be alive and that no hard evidence to prove her death had come to light. I think they might be a more reliable source than people unconnected to the investigation.

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