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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    Not to mention RG still had every reason in the world to lie before he was arrested. Why name anyone and have to admit his full involvement at that point? He was still playing as innocent as he could at that time. By the time he was willing to name them in that letter, his sentence was confirmed and considered definite by SCC.
    Why would he admit to his best friend he was there and in the murder room yet not be telling him "they did it, they did it" if Amanda & Raffaele had somehow correctly guessed his MO and staged the crime scene?

    He would have turned on them in a second to his best friend of all people if he was willing to admit being there yet he blames some mystery Italian dude he can't describe.
    Last edited by MichaelSmith; 11-22-2013 at 01:33 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSmith View Post
    I don't think it's cherry picking sifting through his words and statements. He is the killer who admits being in the cottage and in the murder room and to "leaning out Filomena's window" yet a lot of pro guilt posters treat him as a credible witness who just happened to see something. At one point during his appeals he was blaming the guy at the fountain on Nov 2 with the jacket and white cap being the killer while he sat on the toilet listening to an Ipod he didn't own and was never recovered.
    Regarding Guede, it seems to me that people that respect the Italian judicial system do not "treat him as a credible witness", but rather view him as one of three violent, dishonest persons involved in the brutal murder of Meredith Kercher.

  3. #48
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    He was there and in the murder room. No matter what he said that was a known.

    Blaming the other two just gets him in the problem everyone has mentioned before.
    The Seeker / Sports Freak /

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSmith View Post
    I don't think it's cherry picking sifting through his words and statements. He is the killer who admits being in the cottage and in the murder room and to "leaning out Filomena's window" yet a lot of pro guilt posters treat him as a credible witness who just happened to see something. At one point during his appeals he was blaming the guy at the fountain on Nov 2 with the jacket and white cap being the killer while he sat on the toilet listening to an Ipod he didn't own and was never recovered.
    Exactly, he is trying admit to as little involvement as he possibly can. He has to admit to being on the toilet and to being in the cottage. That is indisputable. So makes sense why he would say he was sitting on the toilet and "someone else did it."

    So if he is denying so much even when there is concrete evidence of him being directly involved in the murder, then do you really think he's gonna be telling the truth to his "best friend"? His whole point during that conversation was the same as his point now....deny, deny, deny.
    Now my philosophy is that it's never okay to kill someone. -- Convicted Murderer Jodi Arias

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSmith View Post
    Why would he admit to his best friend he was there and in the murder room yet not be telling him "they did it, they did it" if Amanda & Raffaele had somehow correctly guessed his MO and staged the crime scene?

    He would have turned on them in a second to his best friend of all people if he was willing to admit being there yet blames some mystery Italian dude he can't describe.
    I think that was very well explained upthread. Knox refused to even admit that she made the very unusual phone call (before anything happened) to her mother. She did not want to risk making any statement, or having any association, related to her knowledge of, or involvement in, the murder. Guede is no different.

    At best, they both made statements that placed themselves at the crime scene at the time of the murder. From there, they both attempt to distance themselves from the murder and from knowledge of the murder.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I think that was very well explained upthread. Knox refused to even admit that she made the very unusual phone call (before anything happened) to her mother. She did not want to risk making any statement, or having any association, related to her knowledge of, or involvement in, the murder. Guede is no different.

    At best, they both made statements that placed themselves at the crime scene at the time of the murder. From there, they both attempt to distance themselves from the murder and from knowledge of the murder.
    Yup. I just cannot see this overturning being upheld. There is just TOO MUCHthere pointing to some kind of involvement of RS and Amanda. I don't see how they could possibly go around all of that.
    Now my philosophy is that it's never okay to kill someone. -- Convicted Murderer Jodi Arias

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa9511 View Post
    Yup. I just cannot see this overturning being upheld. There is just TOO MUCHthere pointing to some kind of involvement of RS and Amanda. I don't see how they could possibly go around all of that.
    I think it they were to focus on all the various details we have been discussing, the judges would conclude some definite involvement at least. The problem is, how far did that involvement go; was it peripheral or premeditated, and how firmly is it proven might possibly be a stumbling block.

    Additionally, doubts about the forensic evidence, coupled with diverse explanations on the part of the defense as well as some errors which were made (or at least were purported to be made ) on the prosecution's part, may make them waver when it comes to a firm commitment involving these two young people. Of course, that is just the negative view, but I am one to always take the worst and best case scenarios and compare them. I still wager the ruling is up in the air at this point....

  8. #53
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    I've noticed that there seems to be some confusion regarding what it means to respect the Italian justice system.

    First, it is often suggested on this thread that respecting a justice system is equivalent to being "pro-guilt". This could not be farther from the truth. Respecting the justice system does not mean advocating guilt. Respecting the justice system means accepting that the courts are the authority regarding the evidence, the interpretation of the evidence, and the reasonings behind rulings. In this case, Guede, Sollecito and Knox were found guilty of murder. An appeal of that decision is underway regarding Sollecito and Knox. This is not a situation of being "pro-anything", but of wanting to understand the evidence in terms of ensuring that there is justice for Meredith and her family.

    To perceive Knox and Sollecito as involved in the murder (per the court rulings) does not require the premise that Guede is not guilty. It is not an either/or situation. All three have been convicted. The conviction of Knox and Sollecito does not negate the truth that Guede was involved in the murder. Guede is not white-washed due to the fact that three people were involved in the murder. He is not white-washed due to the fact that he has admitted to no more than being present during the murder. Knox is not white-washed due to the fact that she has admitted to no more than being present during the murder.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I've noticed that there seems to be some confusion regarding what it means to respect the Italian justice system.

    First, it is often suggested on this thread that respecting a justice system is equivalent to being "pro-guilt". This could not be farther from the truth. Respecting the justice system does not mean advocating guilt. Respecting the justice system means accepting that the courts are the authority regarding the evidence, the interpretation of the evidence, and the reasonings behind rulings. In this case, Guede, Sollecito and Knox were found guilty of murder. An appeal of that decision is underway regarding Sollecito and Knox. This is not a situation of being "pro-anything", but of wanting to understand the evidence in terms of ensuring that there is justice for Meredith and her family.

    To perceive Knox and Sollecito as involved in the murder (per the court rulings) does not require the premise that Guede is not guilty. It is not an either/or situation. All three have been convicted. The conviction of Knox and Sollecito does not negate the truth that Guede was involved in the murder. Guede is not white-washed due to the fact that three people were involved in the murder. He is not white-washed due to the fact that he has admitted to no more than being present during the murder. Knox is not white-washed due to the fact that she has admitted to no more than being present during the murder.
    Thanks for this illuminating information.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa9511 View Post
    Yup. I just cannot see this overturning being upheld. There is just TOO MUCHthere pointing to some kind of involvement of RS and Amanda. I don't see how they could possibly go around all of that.
    It's hard to say how it will go. It's obvious to me that the courts want to get it right, and that they will carefully examine all possible scenarios. The concern, I think, is that if the jury has to excuse one statement or action due to stress, another due to confusion, another due incompetence, another due to corruption, another due to contamination ... eventually it becomes impossible to continue excusing the evidence with reasonable doubt.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I've noticed that there seems to be some confusion regarding what it means to respect the Italian justice system.

    First, it is often suggested on this thread that respecting a justice system is equivalent to being "pro-guilt". This could not be farther from the truth. Respecting the justice system does not mean advocating guilt. Respecting the justice system means accepting that the courts are the authority regarding the evidence, the interpretation of the evidence, and the reasonings behind rulings. In this case, Guede, Sollecito and Knox were found guilty of murder. An appeal of that decision is underway regarding Sollecito and Knox. This is not a situation of being "pro-anything", but of wanting to understand the evidence in terms of ensuring that there is justice for Meredith and her family.

    To perceive Knox and Sollecito as involved in the murder (per the court rulings) does not require the premise that Guede is not guilty. It is not an either/or situation. All three have been convicted. The conviction of Knox and Sollecito does not negate the truth that Guede was involved in the murder. Guede is not white-washed due to the fact that three people were involved in the murder. He is not white-washed due to the fact that he has admitted to no more than being present during the murder. Knox is not white-washed due to the fact that she has admitted to no more than being present during the murder.
    Now my philosophy is that it's never okay to kill someone. -- Convicted Murderer Jodi Arias

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It's hard to say how it will go. It's obvious to me that the courts want to get it right, and that they will carefully examine all possible scenarios. The concern, I think, is that if the jury has to excuse one statement or action due to stress, another due to confusion, another due incompetence, another due to corruption, another due to contamination ... eventually it becomes impossible to continue excusing the evidence with reasonable doubt.
    Agreed. That's what I'm saying, that they would have to essentially toss eveyrthing out. And there is just too much there to ignore.
    Now my philosophy is that it's never okay to kill someone. -- Convicted Murderer Jodi Arias

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It's hard to say how it will go. It's obvious to me that the courts want to get it right, and that they will carefully examine all possible scenarios. The concern, I think, is that if the jury has to excuse one statement or action due to stress, another due to confusion, another due incompetence, another due to corruption, another due to contamination ... eventually it becomes impossible to continue excusing the evidence with reasonable doubt.
    So in your opinion, will the lay judges be likely to wind up:

    A. NOT having reasonable doubt due to explanations of stress, confusion, contamination, etc. ??

    Or could they:

    B. claim reasonable doubt, and excuse themselves because it was all so confusing and contradictory?

    Of course none of us can really know, but with your grasp of the Italian justice system, which scenario is more likely?

    I guess it could be said that here in the US, regarding the Casey Anthony verdict, the jury chose B. But in Italy, do they have a professional judge guiding their deliberations?

  14. #59
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by harmony2 View Post

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