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  1. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I think there needs to be a link demonstrating that what you suggest is possible. This discussion about the transfer of DNA seems to have strayed so far from reality that it simply doesn't make sense anymore.

    Could you please provide a link.
    This links says tertiary transfer is not a real possibility, but secondary is. Dr. Balding excluded Knox for the bra clasp so who is left? Meredith?
    Unlike tertiary transfer, the very real possibility of secondary transfer does pose the potential for problems both in the lab and at the crime scene.
    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...forensic-dna-a

  2. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    That's like Conti and Vecchioti, who claimed that there was no DNA on the knife. They were simply incompetent.
    Speaking of DNA on the knife. Linked table was provided by Sollecito claiming that Meredith's DNA on the knife is not reliable. Apparently they did 2 tests but on the same sample. Looks like a pretty close match to me.

    http://perugiamurderfile.org/downloa...8837&mode=view

  3. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    That's like Conti and Vecchioti, who claimed that there was no DNA on the knife. They were simply incompetent.
    The prosecution needs to prove them incompetent. It cannot just be their conclusions are wrong, they have to attack their qualifications first, then explain why they are wrong. Very rarely are court appointed experts ignored. If C&V are so incompetent , other independent experts should be appointed. That is what most courts would do in this situation, they would not just take prosecution experts at their word, there would be new experts. Why doesn't the prosecutor call for that?

    What is wrong with their qualifications? Why is the prosecution guy better? Those questions need to be addressed, and it seems to me that prosecutor is attacking thir arguments without attacking their qualifications. They have to do both. The prosecution has the burden here to show why not reliable.

    Apparently judge nenci said during one of the first hearings in this case "there's no reason to consider the independent experts unreliable." If you read Italian you can probably go to the transcript of one of those hearings and read exactly what was said

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Ap...nFlorence.html

  4. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Not at all. Conti and Vecchioti were supposed to be independent experts appointed by the court. They were not defense experts. Unfortunately, they made many mistakes. For example, they concluded that there was no DNA on the knife. We know that was not true, so that was a significant error. That places all of their results in question. Their conclusions were illogical and they did not complete the job with which they were tasked. Hellman apparently didn't care that his direction to the experts was ignored. Hellman's ruling was illogical and he viewed the case as fragments, rather than a complete picture. Therefore his decision was overturned.
    One cannot discredit an expert by pointing to a disagreement w their decision. Their was only low copy DNA on that knife, many experts would not consider that reliable under intl standards

    Expert witnesses (independent ones) are only disregarded if there is some serious qualification issue or if the experts were caught taking money from one side. The court is simply not going to disregard the C&V just bc the prosecutor says so, you need to prove that they did not do a test they should have performed, they lied about their credentials, etc

    AK and RS were intimate, RS DNA could have been on her shirt, which was in that pile. It could also be contaminated in the unaccredited lab. I do not knew all the details but there were 50 violations of DNA evidence collecting so it could have happened during any one of them as well

    Maybe RS washed his hands in the cottage after bathroom and used a towel and that towel was in that mess.

  5. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Apparently judge nenci said during one of the first hearings in this case "there's no reason to consider the independent experts unreliable." If you read Italian you can probably go to the transcript of one of those hearings and read exactly what was said

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Ap...nFlorence.html
    Snipped. Lol..so somebody on another site makes something up, and then we have to prove that it is wrong? I don't think so. That quotation should have been sourced. If you don't have a real source then we can safely assume that this never happened.

  6. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherlockh View Post
    This links says tertiary transfer is not a real possibility, but secondary is. Dr. Balding excluded Knox for the bra clasp so who is left? Meredith?

    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...forensic-dna-a

    "Moreover, Gill et al. (4) did not consider uncertain designations for peaks that are potentially due to stutter. After reclassifying as uncertain all peaks below 15% of the height at one extra repeat unit, a common stutter guideline (4), there remain four alleles not attributable to either Sollecito or Kercher"

    http://www.pnas.org/content/110/30/1...b-c5abfbd8c926

  7. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    One cannot discredit an expert by pointing to a disagreement w their decision. Their was only low copy DNA on that knife, many experts would not consider that reliable under intl standards

    Expert witnesses (independent ones) are only disregarded if there is some serious qualification issue or if the experts were caught taking money from one side. The court is simply not going to disregard the C&V just bc the prosecutor says so, you need to prove that they did not do a test they should have performed, they lied about their credentials, etc

    AK and RS were intimate, RS DNA could have been on her shirt, which was in that pile. It could also be contaminated in the unaccredited lab. I do not knew all the details but there were 50 violations of DNA evidence collecting so it could have happened during any one of them as well

    Maybe RS washed his hands in the cottage after bathroom and used a towel and that towel was in that mess.

    Knox's DNA that was recently tested on the knife was a smaller sample than that of Meredith that was on the knife.

  8. #983
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    Nov 2012
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    Scienze forensi – Validitŕ della prova del DNA (Autore: Edoardo Mori)

    http://www.earmi.it/varie/dna.htm

    Judge Mori - Forensic Science in Italy, "La disastrosa situazione delle scienze forensi in Italia"

    http://www.earmi.it/varie/scienze%20forensi.html

    "Science has now conquered science fiction. In the lab anything can be detected"!

    Now the sorcerer's apprentices have discovered DNA and believe they can easily solve any case with it. It seems that now the investigators and judges have refrained from using logic and intelligence and think they have in hand a perfect tool that exempt them from thinking.

    Unfortunately, DNA is an exceptional tool of investigation, but also subject to errors which can be avoided … only if you follow methods with strict rules, starting from the first moment of the investigation, if the scientific investigators arrive after the other investigators, you have already created an uncontrolled pollution of the crime scene.

    This problem is so complex and important that the methods and protocols of research and collection of samples, their storage, their manipulation, should be fixed by law (Standards of Evidence?), so as to ensure the authenticity of the evidence. Every action, from research and analysis, is essentially a unique operation, according to the distinction of the Code of Criminal Procedure and the ignorance of this elementary fact implies that the test with the DNA becomes uncertain.

    Much more at the links...

  9. #984
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    "Moreover, Gill et al. (4) did not consider uncertain designations for peaks that are potentially due to stutter. After reclassifying as uncertain all peaks below 15% of the height at one extra repeat unit, a common stutter guideline (4), there remain four alleles not attributable to either Sollecito or Kercher"

    http://www.pnas.org/content/110/30/1...b-c5abfbd8c926

    Thanks for the link, Otto.

    First of all, you misunderstood the article completely. The four additional peaks Balding confirmed come from autosomic STRs, not the Y chromosome. It means there were certainly some contributors (male or female) apart from Meredith and Raffaele.

    Y Chromosome amplification, which is not analysed by Balding in this article at all, provides us with evidence of several additional contributors. They are certainly male, because only males have Y chromosome:

    http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/c...-y-chromosome/

    The conclusion is:
    Balding confirms the 4 autosomic peaks not attributable to Meredith or Raffaele (i.e. additional contributors)
    Balding concludes there is Raffaele's profile in the sample nonetheless:

    Note that I cannot address here issues of how the DNA came to be in the exhibit: Possible contamination was an issue in the trial and appeal. I only consider whether there is DNA from Sollecito for which the evidence remains very strong after allowing for the additional alleles identified by Vecchiotti and Conti (2) and the possibility that apparent stutters are allelic.
    Bolding mine.

  10. #985
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    Good morning, time for a new thread,this one will be locking in 10 mins. I've moved some posts over so you can continue your discussion.

    Please start moving over:

    Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
    Last edited by KateB; 05-24-2015 at 10:46 AM. Reason: repair url tag.


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