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  1. #1
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    the "accident" victim

    Keyes indicated he committed only one murder in addition to Samantha Koenig in which the body was recovered. In this homicide, Keyes reported doing something to the victimís body or moving the body to a location where, if found, it would appear as though the victim died from an accident. In this situation, the body was recovered and authorities ruled the death accidental.
    from: http://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-re...r-israel-keyes

    While the regional threads work very well, I feel, in looking for possible victims of IK, I have been thinking a lot the past few days about the "one" victim (other than Samantha) whose body, IK told the investigative team, was recovered -- the one he did something to or moved to a location that would make the death seem accidental. The information we have is that, indeed, the death was ruled accidental.

    I thought it might be helpful to have a thread dedicated to seeing if we can identify who that victim may have been -- since we don't really have any particular geographical clue (other than the timeline).

    I think WS missing/then found deceased threads that reflect "accidental" deaths would be a great place to start -- but we may need to branch out, because we don't know if the person was ever reported missing or if, perhaps, he/she was reported missing but never made it to WS threads.

    I'm thinking we can just gather some "possibles" here in this thread -- then, for those that match up well with the timeline and such and seem very possible, we can move individual cases to the appropriate geographical region thread. (And it might be helpful, too, if there are already "accident" victims mentioned in those threads -- I can't remember for sure if there are -- that we re-list them here as well.)

    One of the places IK mentioned that he hunted victims was around boating areas. To me, that would seem a likely type of environment in which to stage an "accident" appearance. So I'm thinking that's where I will start looking -- around boating areas -- for deaths ruled drownings, one-person boat accidents, and other water-related deaths that seem unusual or mysterious. (I realize, too, that in these kinds of cases, the victim might not have been taken in the boating area, but only moved there after death.)

    That's just one idea, though, and I hope posters will come up with others regarding what kinds of "accidental" death might actually have been murder. (One that comes to mind for me is "fire" -- so I guess there might be some overlap with the arson thread, possibly.)

  2. #2
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    Gonna borrow bessie's put-the-name-in-the-post-title message for this thread, too, because it makes sense to do that here as well:


    When posting about a particular case, PLEASE type the victims' names in the title of your post.


  3. #3
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    Still working on trying to collate some reasonable possibilities for the "accident" victim, but as I do, have had a few more thoughts on this I wanted to post.

    One -- it seems IK did a lot of different kinds of body disposal. Burying, dismembering, Drano, sinking in a deep lake, and combos of these. I wonder if he planned all this out ahead of time -- thinking probably "yes" -- and if he did, was it mainly to "change things up" to avoid a pattern that might connect his murders if bodies were discovered, or was it mostly just "part of the experience" for him, an added "thrill" to try all these different methods?

    Whatever the answer there, it is interesting that he staged the one victim to appear to have died by accident. Planned, or spur-of-the-moment because the situation presented that as a viable option?

    Also, we're told IK "claimed" never to have shot any victim other than Bill Currier -- that strangulation was his main method. He talked about killing one victim by hitting the victim in the head with something in an effort at control. Could that victim be a likely one to stage as an "accident"? Car accident maybe, or...what else?

    Off the top of my head, beyond maybe covering up with arson, it's hard for me to think how he could have staged to make the death of any victim who died by strangulation look like an accident. Anybody think of any possibilities there?

  4. #4
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    When I first heard about the victim deemed an accident, the first thing that came to mind was a fall. Since he frequented trails and national forest it could be possible that one victim was trown over a cliff to appear they had fallen. This one has nagged at me because I have read or seen something in the past that fits this but for the life of me I can't figure out how to find it now.

  5. #5
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    Train accident, that would be impossible to find the real cause of death.
    Where's Logan Tucker?

  6. #6
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    Andrew Cook, 22..
    A long shot, but Who would push someone off a 125' Bridge?

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/199...-stand-owners/
    (aprox 400 miles from Colville, WA)
    April 8, 1996 in Nation/World
    Body Found May Be Coffee Stand Owner’s

    Cook disappeared Friday from his Tukwila espresso stand, and investigators feared he had been abducted during a robbery.

    A couple of hours after he had been reported missing, Cook’s car was found on fire
    behind a store in nearby Renton.

    Wills said it couldn’t immediately be determined how the man found under the bridge had died. It appeared he had been pushed and fell 125 feet to the ground, Wills said.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Still working on trying to collate some reasonable possibilities for the "accident" victim, but as I do, have had a few more thoughts on this I wanted to post.

    One -- it seems IK did a lot of different kinds of body disposal. Burying, dismembering, Drano, sinking in a deep lake, and combos of these. I wonder if he planned all this out ahead of time -- thinking probably "yes" -- and if he did, was it mainly to "change things up" to avoid a pattern that might connect his murders if bodies were discovered, or was it mostly just "part of the experience" for him, an added "thrill" to try all these different methods?

    Whatever the answer there, it is interesting that he staged the one victim to appear to have died by accident. Planned, or spur-of-the-moment because the situation presented that as a viable option?

    Also, we're told IK "claimed" never to have shot any victim other than Bill Currier -- that strangulation was his main method. He talked about killing one victim by hitting the victim in the head with something in an effort at control. Could that victim be a likely one to stage as an "accident"? Car accident maybe, or...what else?

    Off the top of my head, beyond maybe covering up with arson, it's hard for me to think how he could have staged to make the death of any victim who died by strangulation look like an accident. Anybody think of any possibilities there?
    IMO:
    http://bangordailynews.com/2012/01/2...e-than-a-year/

    Discovery of decomposed body in Stacyville remains mystery after more than a year

    The body of the man — believed to have been in his 50s, about 5 feet 9 inches and weighing about 150 pounds — was found by deer hunters on Nov. 4, 2010, in the woods off Route 11.

    Officials from the state medical examiner’s office said there are no signs of foul play and estimate the man may have died in early September 2010.
    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/8812

    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=r...ra=ls&t=m&z=10

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9801059&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Israel Keyes Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*[/ame]

    October 15, 2010: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Chicago, Illinois

    October 15, 2010: American Airlines flight (Chicago, Illinois to Boston, Massachusetts).

    October 15 - 25, 2010: Vehicle rental (Enterprise) - Boston, Massachusetts

    [no dates given]: In Maine

    October 25, 2010: American Airlines flight (Boston, Massachusetts to Chicago, Illinois).

    October 25, 2010: Alaska Airlines flight (Chicago to Anchorage).

  8. #8
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    The guy he hit in the head in Washington State was the male half of a couple, both of whom were buried, according to the Nov 29 interview.

    Therefore, for the "accident victim," and assuming Keyes did strangle all other victims, we would be looking for an "accident" that successfully disguises signs of strangulation.

    To me, that would mean something like a broken neck that ends up being attributed to a fall, or such advanced decomposition at the time the body is found that soft tissue and small bones have disappeared or been dispersed by scavenging. I also get the sense this will be in deep woods, remote, so that investigators would assume a fall or hypothermia following someone getting lost while hiking or on a fishing trip.

    And for some reason I keep thinking the accident victim is a solo male, as opposed to a woman. I am not sure why. Perhaps because I imagine a woman will have been raped and tortured prior to being killed, and that the signs would have been much more difficult to disguise as an accident.

    The Maine guy, above, is a possibility, but I wonder why investigators so confidently stated "no signs of foul play." Was the autopsy truly able to rule out strangulation?

    We only have the "accident victim" scenario second-hand; in other words, we do not have an original recording or transcript of Keyes' account, only law-enforcement-as-filtered-through-media. I am always slightly leery of those filters.

    Finally, my sense is that this murder is more likely to be near the *beginning* of Keyes' career than later. That's because there does seem to be a progressive escalation of elements, from completely invisible backwoods encounters to more deliberate kidnappings/carjackings. When I imagine the accident victim scenario, it feels to me like an earlier, random backwoods encounter in the 2000-2006 range.

    all purely my feeling, of course.

  9. #9
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    http://bangordailynews.com/2011/01/0...be-identified/

    Body in Stacyville yet to be identified

    By Jen Lynds, BDN Staff

    Posted Jan. 03, 2011, at 7:33 p.m.
    Last modified Feb. 05, 2011, at 7:05 p.m.

    STACYVILLE, Maine — The body was found in the woods in Stacyville, exactly two months ago, badly decomposed, wearing a blue and white ski hat with the name “Chris” knit into the design.

    Even though the case remains active, the few clues left in the woods where the body was discovered are virtually all that investigators have to help them identify the man.
    The body was too decomposed to identify. They still haven't identified him. I feel that he could be Dennis Kunkel from Ohio and I do feel IK was responsible for it. I called all the listed numbers for the UID and Kunkel and got exactly

    http://www.ohio.com/news/family-baff...rance-1.193932
    Family baffled by Medina man's disappearance

    By Gina Mace
    Published: June 23, 2010 - 06:10 PM | Updated: June 18, 2011 - 10:46 AM

    Dennis Kunkel, 44, of Medina, has not been seen or heard from by family or friends since May 18.

    Elliott last saw her son May 16 when he rushed to her Berea home to help pick up his stepfather, who had fallen. They made plans for Kunkel to come back May 19 so he could help move the family's boat.
    According to Medina County Common Pleas Court records, Kunkel was served with a foreclosure notice for his home May 9.

    Thomas said Kunkel's business had been slow and he had even cashed in a gold investment for about $11,000 not long before he disappeared.
    5/19 - 7/18, 2010: FBI Timeline - Midwest & Western US

    And one other fact about the UID: his hand/s were missing.

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/8812

    One or both hands not recovered

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynar View Post
    The guy he hit in the head in Washington State was the male half of a couple, both of whom were buried, according to the Nov 29 interview.

    Therefore, for the "accident victim," and assuming Keyes did strangle all other victims, we would be looking for an "accident" that successfully disguises signs of strangulation.

    To me, that would mean something like a broken neck that ends up being attributed to a fall, or such advanced decomposition at the time the body is found that soft tissue and small bones have disappeared or been dispersed by scavenging. I also get the sense this will be in deep woods, remote, so that investigators would assume a fall or hypothermia following someone getting lost while hiking or on a fishing trip.

    And for some reason I keep thinking the accident victim is a solo male, as opposed to a woman. I am not sure why. Perhaps because I imagine a woman will have been raped and tortured prior to being killed, and that the signs would have been much more difficult to disguise as an accident.

    The Maine guy, above, is a possibility, but I wonder why investigators so confidently stated "no signs of foul play." Was the autopsy truly able to rule out strangulation?

    We only have the "accident victim" scenario second-hand; in other words, we do not have an original recording or transcript of Keyes' account, only law-enforcement-as-filtered-through-media. I am always slightly leery of those filters.

    Finally, my sense is that this murder is more likely to be near the *beginning* of Keyes' career than later. That's because there does seem to be a progressive escalation of elements, from completely invisible backwoods encounters to more deliberate kidnappings/carjackings. When I imagine the accident victim scenario, it feels to me like an earlier, random backwoods encounter in the 2000-2006 range.

    all purely my feeling, of course.
    Didn't Keyes say the accident victim was a male with a blow to the head? I'll have to pull out my notes, but can't do it right now. Painful knee injury.
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwatchingeye View Post
    When I first heard about the victim deemed an accident, the first thing that came to mind was a fall. Since he frequented trails and national forest it could be possible that one victim was trown over a cliff to appear they had fallen. This one has nagged at me because I have read or seen something in the past that fits this but for the life of me I can't figure out how to find it now.
    I'm having the same problem with the account of a strange boating death that I read about somewhere, sometime -- not sure if it was on WS or elsewhere; haven't been able to find it again yet.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynar View Post
    The guy he hit in the head in Washington State was the male half of a couple, both of whom were buried, according to the Nov 29 interview.

    Therefore, for the "accident victim," and assuming Keyes did strangle all other victims, we would be looking for an "accident" that successfully disguises signs of strangulation.

    To me, that would mean something like a broken neck that ends up being attributed to a fall, or such advanced decomposition at the time the body is found that soft tissue and small bones have disappeared or been dispersed by scavenging. I also get the sense this will be in deep woods, remote, so that investigators would assume a fall or hypothermia following someone getting lost while hiking or on a fishing trip.

    And for some reason I keep thinking the accident victim is a solo male, as opposed to a woman. I am not sure why. Perhaps because I imagine a woman will have been raped and tortured prior to being killed, and that the signs would have been much more difficult to disguise as an accident.

    The Maine guy, above, is a possibility, but I wonder why investigators so confidently stated "no signs of foul play." Was the autopsy truly able to rule out strangulation?

    We only have the "accident victim" scenario second-hand; in other words, we do not have an original recording or transcript of Keyes' account, only law-enforcement-as-filtered-through-media. I am always slightly leery of those filters.

    Finally, my sense is that this murder is more likely to be near the *beginning* of Keyes' career than later. That's because there does seem to be a progressive escalation of elements, from completely invisible backwoods encounters to more deliberate kidnappings/carjackings. When I imagine the accident victim scenario, it feels to me like an earlier, random backwoods encounter in the 2000-2006 range.

    all purely my feeling, of course.
    Yes, you are right about IK saying the person he hit in the head was the male of the Washington couple. (And didn't he also strike Bill Currier in the head before shooting him?) I had forgotten that he specifically said he buried them...

    I have the same feeling as you that the "accident" victim was likely a lone male. Not sure, of course.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    Didn't Keyes say the accident victim was a male with a blow to the head? I'll have to pull out my notes, but can't do it right now. Painful knee injury.
    No, I think, now that cynar mentioned it, that the victim he said he struck in the head was the male of a man/woman couple, whose bodies have never been recovered.

    I think the "accident" victim is someone else -- and the body was recovered, how IK told things, anyhow.

  14. #14
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    Katherine Huether she went hiking march of 2010 and apparently fell over a cliff and died. I will link the story below. Seems to fit the timeline and location but you guys can correct me if it doesn't

    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index..._kathrine.html

  15. #15
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    Katherine Huether, 24, March 2010, Skamania County, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by jkloc420 View Post
    Katherine Huether she went hiking march of 2010 and apparently fell over a cliff and died. I will link the story below. Seems to fit the timeline and location but you guys can correct me if it doesn't

    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index..._kathrine.html

    Yes, she could fit the timeline, depending on how one defines "Western U.S." (and I think the label has been somewhat flexible in IK's case):


    3/1 - 10, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
    FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 3/1 - 3/10 2010
    <snipped from GGE's post at the beginning of the Timeline thread>
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9801059&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Israel Keyes Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*[/ame]



    More coverage:

    Article from when the initial search was called off:
    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index...upport_bu.html


    Another after she was found:


    Autopsy ordered on hiker's body

    STEVENSON, Wash. -- Blunt trauma killed Kate Huether, according to the Skamania County coroner, but an autopsy was ordered Monday afternoon to reveal more specifics into how she died. ...


    ...Huether had severe injuries to her head and torso, according to Banks, who delivered the cause-of-death statement. They were the injuries of someone who fell some 400 feet down a rock wall, he said. ...


    ... Huether missing since March 4
    During a weeklong search, the only information that authorities had to go on was her car found at a trailhead and a credit card receipt with her name found about four miles north of Bonneville Dam. ...
    more at: http://www.kgw.com/news/Lost-Hikers-...-87411072.html


    I wonder what the results of the autopsy were? (So far, have not found coverage.)



    Interesting about the trailhead -- one of the other links says she texted a friend from there, saying she was about to take a short hike. IK mentioned trailheads as one of his "hunting" spots.


    Some of the stories show Katherine with her beautiful dog -- but I have not so far seen mention that the dog was with her when she was disappeared.


    RIP Katherine.


    ETA: Hmmm -- possibly there turned out not to be a full autopsy done, after all?

    Coroner: Trauma of fall down rock face killed Gorge hiker

    ...
    Huether had severe injuries to her head and torso, according to Skamania County Coroner Peter Banks, who examined the body. He said it appeared that she had sustained the blunt trauma injuries while falling some 400 feet down a rock face. Banks said without a complete autopsy, he could not determine if she had died instantly but a formal autopsy will not be conducted since there was no indication of foul play....
    more at: http://www.nwcn.com/home/Medical-exa...-87659512.html
    Last edited by Backwoods; 12-29-2013 at 04:41 AM. Reason: ETA: add comment, quote and link; correct state in title

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