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  1. #1
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    Wolf v. Ramsey - a second look

    To anyone who has not read the FULL opinion by Judge Carnes in the Wolf v. Ramsey case, I recommend it. I know many disagree with some of the conclusions and feel that the evidence was incomplete that was shown in that case, it does offer a few tidbits that I was unaware of. I don't know where you can find the full text online as I accessed it through a legal database I have access to. Here are some of the highlights of info I find to be interesting...

    "As Andrew Louis Smit, a respected homicide detective hired by the Boulder Police Department to investigate this crime, has noted, there are only two possible solutions to this crime: that is, either someone in the Ramsey household committed the crime or an intruder did it."

    It is worth noting that the opinion sourced this to Smit's deposition. It is interesting that when under oath, Mr. Smit seems to lend credence to the RDI theory.

    "Likewise a leaf and white styro-foam packing peanuts, consistent with the leaves and packing peanuts found pooled in the window-well, were found in the wine-cellar room of the basement where JonBenet's body was discovered."

    I've heard of the leaves near the window, but never in the wine cellar. That is interesting.

    "Further, fibers consistent with those of the cord used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed."

    This seems to point clearly towards the tying of JBR occurring upstairs. As to whether it says IDI or RDI is up in the air based on this, IMO.

    "Mrs. Ramsey's admi[tted] that she destroyed her handwritten book notes."

    I wonder what was in those notes?

    "Plaintiff has the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that the Ramseys murdered their child."

    Allow me to supply the legal background. Wolfe is suing for libel. The court found the Ramsey's statements to be libelous, however, a defense to libel is that the defendants honestly believed the statements they made. To counter, Wolf claimed that PR could not honestly believe the statements since she murdered JBR. The judge made Wolfe stick to this theory as though he were the prosecutor and the judge was the jury. In my mind, this was a bit of a tight squeeze. Furthermore, the Ramseys were granted summary judgment. This means that no genuine issue of material fact existed as to the plaintiff's claims. So, to me, it seems odd that Judge Carnes thought it significant to state that plaintiff has not shown clear and convincing evidence. That is not the standard for summary judgment. Plaintiff needs to show a genuine issue of material fact. Clear and convincing evidence is necessary for a favorable jury verdict, but a judge is premature to grant summary judgment for lack of clear and convincing evidence if a genuince issue of material fact is shown. Hopefully, I didn't lose too many of you in my legal ramblings...

  2. #2
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    Didn't strike me as "rambling," but in any event I appreciate the explanation.

  3. #3
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    Judge Carnes' judgement was based upon two sources - Lou Smit's PowerPoint Presentation which at the point of the Wolf suit, was several years out of date (Lou Smit had resigned in 1998 and had not yet been rehired). - and also Steve Thomas' book. She did not have access to the police files. When Beckner was deposed, he refused to answer some of the questions about the evidence.

    I can also see one glaring error straight away - Lou SMit wasn't hired by the BPD at all, he was hired by the BDA.

    The window in the basement was broken and John Ramsey admitted breaking it himself the previous summer. Leaves and debris could easily have blown in threw a broken window and I do not think this in itself is evidence of any intruder.

    I think the only interesting thing to come out of the Wolf case was the animal hairs and the existence of DNA-x. The rest of it is of little consequence sadly.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  4. #4
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    I have updated the Resource thread to include Judge Carnes Order in the Wolf case.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20136

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I can also see one glaring error straight away - Lou SMit wasn't hired by the BPD at all, he was hired by the BDA.

    The window in the basement was broken and John Ramsey admitted breaking it himself the previous summer. Leaves and debris could easily have blown in threw a broken window and I do not think this in itself is evidence of any intruder.
    Actually Jayelles, Lou Smit was hired by the Boulder DA's office in 3/1997. I understand the reasons for questioning his presentation as he seemed to represent the Ramseys from day one, but he was a part of the official investigation for a while.

    As for the debris from the window, if you re-read my post, you will see that it discusses debris found INSIDE the wine cellar. Not near the window. That I find interesting.

  6. #6
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    What are IDI and RDI?

    Thanks again V.O.R. for an insightful post. I don't know if there's a glossary of abbreviations on site, but I'm not sure what RDI and IDI mean. Could you tell us newer folks?

    It seemed strange the judge singled out the "respected homicide detective" Smit for the notion that, simply stated, is that it was the Ramseys or someone else.

    I knew a lot of the facts several years ago, but have forgotten some of the players...was Wolf the housekeeper who thought that noone but Patsy could have known of, or found, the pocketknife she had concealed in the laundry supplies and was found in the room with the body?

  7. #7
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    RDI=Ramsey Did It
    IDI=Intruder Did It

    Chris Wolf was not the housekeeper. He was a Boulder journalist who was brought under suspicion because of his live-in girlfriend. There is a bit more to it than that, but I'm sure that Google can help you out...

  8. #8
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    Voice of Reason,

    I'm glad you noted that Lou Smit, when under oath, seems to believe the Ramseys are involved in the death of JonBenet. IMO Lou Smit knows exactly what happened, but he is protecting the identities of the children in accordance with Colorado law while trying to rehabilitate the parents. In private Lou Smit, IMO, believes children were involved and has been known to say:

    "**** ***** should be looked at. The intruder could be a kid."

    Source: Spade
    Last edited by JBRMod2; 05-02-2005 at 02:51 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Voice of Reason,

    I'm glad you noted that Lou Smit, when under oath, seems to believe the Ramseys are involved in the death of JonBenet. IMO Lou Smit knows exactly what happened, but he is protecting the identities of the children in accordance with Colorado law while trying to rehabilitate the parents. In private Lou Smit, IMO, believes children were involved and has been known to say:

    "**** ***** should be looked at. The intruder could be a kid."

    Source: Spade
    Bluecrab-
    Do you have any idea what is **** ***** is up to these days?

    thanks-
    Last edited by JBRMod2; 05-02-2005 at 02:53 PM.

  10. #10
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    Do not name private individuals as having involvement in the Ramsey murder.

    Last edited by JBRMod2; 05-02-2005 at 05:12 PM.


  11. #11
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    I thought that was why we were here to discuss who we think was involved in the Ramsey murder.

  12. #12
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    IrishMist is offline You can't control the wind - but you can adjust your sails
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    Just out of curiosity, can we use initials?

    I say just out of curiosity, because I can never focus on ONE person/theory long enough to name anyone!!

  13. #13
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    You can discuss the Ramsey case without naming private individuals as suspects. Use a pseudonym.

    There are legal and moral implications involved here.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensmom98
    Bluecrab-
    Do you have any idea what is **** ***** is up to these days?

    thanks-

    bensmom98,

    DS is a high-achieving 18-year-old student in Atlanta.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    bensmom98,

    DS is a high-achieving 18-year-old student in Atlanta.
    Hmmm ... what's this??
    I'm not up on that one ... can some one pm me and fill me in??

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