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  1. #1
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    Normal Hymenal Configuration

    Probably more than you wanted to know, but necessary to clarify some misunderstandings in regard to Meyer's description of JonBenet's hymen.

    "Surrounding the mouth of the vaginal orifice is the rim of tissue called the hymen. The once thick, redundant hymen becomes thin and translucent with varying configurations. The hymen may be annular, crescent-shaped, redundant, and irregular or teardrop-shaped[1] (Fig. 5). Some less common variations of the hymen include the imperforate hymen, microperforate, and the septated hymen. In most instances, correction of these variations is not necessary until the girl reaches puberty."
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468258_print


    "Many people are under the impression that the hymen is located within the vagina. It is not. Itís part of the vulva, the external genital organs. Itís located outside the vagina. The hymen is a layer of tissue, just like the tissue around the opening of your vagina that partially conceals the vaginal orifice. You may or may not have one, most females do. The hymen is named after the Greek God Hymenaeus -- the God of marriage and weddings, FYI.

    During the early stages of fetal development there is no opening into the vagina at all. The thin layer of tissue that conceals the vagina at this time usually divides incompletely prior to birth, forming the hymen. The size and shape of this opening (or openings) varies greatly from person to person.

    Sometimes this formation of an opening does not occur, resulting in an imperforated hymen (it lacks the more common opening). Some females have no hymen at birth at all, since the tissue divided completely while they were still in the womb."
    http://www.coolnurse.com/hymen.htm

    Rainsong

  2. #2
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    Several instigating factors that can contribute to nonspecific vulvovaginitis include:

    Poor hygiene practices at home or daycare program

    Inadequate front-to-back wiping

    Smaller labia minora, which are less protective of the vestibule, with a short distance from the anus to vagina

    Vulvovaginal epithelium that is not well estrogenized and thus thinner and more prone to irritation

    Foreign body such as toilet paper, small toys, or pieces of cloth, which may be inadvertently inserted in the vagina by the child

    Chemical irritants such as bubble baths, shampoos, or bath oils, and certain deodorant soaps

    Dermatologic conditions such as eczema and seborrhea

    Chronic disease and altered immune status

    Sexual abuse



    There are many reasons for chronic irritation, why choose the last.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainsong
    Probably more than you wanted to know, but necessary to clarify some misunderstandings in regard to Meyer's description of JonBenet's hymen.

    http://www.coolnurse.com/hymen.htm

    Rainsong
    Hello Rainsong,

    Welcome and thanks for the info re' hymens. It's something I've always wondered about but was afraid to ask. (Sort of like the King's physician who examined Snow White and wondered what caused those seven little dimples on her hymen.)

    I agree with you that Meyer's description of JonBenet's hymen is debatable --
    "The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosaL tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions." By itself, that could mean almost anything. That's why other evidence has to also be considered to help reach a conclusion, such as:

    o The hyperemia (excess blood in the tissue) is extensive and extends into the vaginal orifice.

    0 The hymenal orifice measures 1x1 cm, about twice the size it should measure.

    o There are abrasions (acute and chronic) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina.

    Therefore, although not conclusive, there is evidence the hymen was likely lost as a result of these intrusions into the vagina, and it was not a "natural" condition of the vagina.

    BlueCrab

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    560
    Welcome Rainsong and any recent other new members.

    Please be sure to check out the Ramsey Links and Resources thread at the top and to be careful not to name private individuals as suspects in the Ramsey case.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2005
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    "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl. There are significant differences of opinion regarding what is the normal size of the hymenal opening and this, of course, bears directly on the question of abuse. Most agree that there have not been large studies of many children at different ages with regard to what the normal hymen looks like, its size, and whether or not it is indeed circular."
    http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume2/j2_4_2.htm

    "Active hyperemia is the increase in organ blood flow that is associated with increased metabolic activity of an organ or tissue. With increased metabolic activity, vascular resistance decreases due to both vasodilation and vascular recruitment (particularly in skeletal muscle). Active hyperemia occurs during muscle contraction (also termed exercise or functional hyperemia), increased cardiac activity, increased mental activity, and increased gastrointestinal activity during food absorption."
    http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/CVPhysiology/BF005.htm

    The last statement, "There are abrasions (acute and chronic) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina" .is incorrect.

    From the autopsy report:"The area of abrasion is present at approximately
    the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right
    lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen."

    No mention is made of chronic abrasions. What is stated under MICROSCOPIC DESCRIPTION is, "Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation.

    This is at the cellular level.

    The hymen was not 'lost' any more than was the pineapple. Compare the following, both from the autopsy report:

    The yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may
    represent fragments of pineapple.

    The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions.

    One cannot conclude the hymen was 'lost' when Meyer clearly states it is present and in a crescent configuration as per previous citations regarding various hymenal configurations.

    Rainsong

  6. #6
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    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBRMod2
    Welcome Rainsong and any recent other new members.

    Please be sure to check out the Ramsey Links and Resources thread at the top and to be careful not to name private individuals as suspects in the Ramsey case.
    Thank you and BlueCrab both for the welcome.

    Rainsong

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainsong

    The last statement, "There are abrasions (acute and chronic) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina" .is incorrect.
    Rainsong,

    From the autopsy report:

    "Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflamation. The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion."

    Epithelial erosion is an abrasion created over time that, due to repetition, gradually removes the top layer of skin (called mucosa when referring to the vagina's interior), thus revealing the chronic injury (inflicted 1 to 3 days prior to the murder) at the same 7:00 position as is the acute injury (inflicted the same day as the murder).

    BlueCrab

  8. #8
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    Mar 2005
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    I will repeat: "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl."
    http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume2/j2_4_2.htm

    And :
    "Causes, incidence, and risk factors

    Cervical erosion may be caused by trauma (through intercourse, tampon insertion, foreign objects in the vagina, or speculum insertion), or infection (herpes, early syphilis, tampons that were not removed, severe vaginal infections), and sometimes chemicals (spermaticidal contraceptive creams or foams, douches).

    There is an increased risk associated with vaginal use of chemical agents or multiple sexual partners; however, the condition is seen in women without these risk factors."
    http://health.yahoo.com/ency/adam/001492

    As stated in the excerpt from the IPT, this condition is also seen in young children.

    Given no history of prior abuse on the part of either parent, nor any indication per JonBenet's pediatrician and the history of previous vaginal inflammations/infections, there is no valid reason to suspect sex abuse.

    From the autopsy report: No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified.

    The inflammation was chronic. The abrasion was not. Abrasions and erosions are not the same thing. They may appear to be the same, superficially, but there are not since their causes are not the same.

    Edited to add:
    Nonspecific Vulvovaginitis

    Vulvovaginal inflammation is the most common gynecological disorder of prepubertal girls and accounts for over 50% of visits to pediatric gynecological clinics.[15] Inflammation may involve the vulva or vagina or both and can result from a variety of stimuli. Several instigating factors that can contribute to nonspecific vulvovaginitis include:

    1.Poor hygiene practices at home or daycare program
    2. Inadequate front-to-back wiping
    3.Smaller labia minora, which are less protective of the vestibule, with a short distance from the anus to vagina
    4.Vulvovaginal epithelium that is not well estrogenized and thus thinner and more prone to irritation
    5.Foreign body such as toilet paper, small toys, or pieces of cloth, which may be inadvertently inserted in the vagina by the child
    6.Chemical irritants such as bubble baths, shampoos, or bath oils, and certain deodorant soaps
    7.Dermatologic conditions such as eczema and seborrhea
    8.Chronic disease and altered immune status
    9.Sexual abuse

    Rainsong

  9. #9

    Question Huh????

    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

    When the hymen is torn...you "lose" your virginity. I do not recall losing my virginity at such a young age.

    When the hymen is torn...you bleed...you know...bleed like as in your monthly period!

    The hymen is inside the female orifice...not outside.

    You've heard the term "deflowered"...well that comes from tearing your hymen....as in losing your virginity...as in having sex.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  10. #10
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    Mar 2005
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    JonBenet's hymen was not torn.

    Rainsong


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainsong
    JonBenet's hymen was not torn.

    Rainsong,

    True. At autopsy JonBenet's hymen was not torn. That's because the hymen didn't even exist except for a rim of mucosal tissue that "represented" the hymen, so it's unclear whether it had been torn away at an earlier date or had never existed. But the peripheral evidence (abrasions, size of the hymenal orifice, etc.) suggests the hymen had likely been physically eliminated.

  12. #12
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    Aug 2003
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    1.Poor hygiene practices at home or daycare program
    2. Inadequate front-to-back wiping
    JB would call for anyone within earshot to come and wipe her. Someone who was leary of being called a baby raper may have been afraid to wipe her and left her wet instead even when he gave her a clean pair of his own daughter's panties to change into.

    5.Foreign body such as toilet paper, small toys, or pieces of cloth, which may be inadvertently inserted in the vagina by the child
    Or a paitbrush handle....

    6.Chemical irritants such as bubble baths, shampoos, or bath oils, and certain deodorant soaps
    Didn't JB's (allegedly seen by the BPD as well before they vanished into the ether) medical records indicate that she had vaginal problems due to the irritation of bubble baths?

  13. #13
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    Mar 2005
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    225
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Rainsong,

    True. At autopsy JonBenet's hymen was not torn. That's because the hymen didn't even exist except for a rim of mucosal tissue that "represented" the hymen, so it's unclear whether it had been torn away at an earlier date or had never existed. But the peripheral evidence (abrasions, size of the hymenal orifice, etc.) suggests the hymen had likely been physically eliminated.
    One more time: The hymen may be annular, crescent-shaped, redundant, and irregular or teardrop-shaped[1] (Fig. 5).

    JonBenet's hymen was present: The hymen itself is represented
    by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and
    10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately
    the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right
    lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen.

    Now, if JonBenet's hymen was not present, just how was it abraded as per the autopsy report?

    Rainsong

  14. #14
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    Rainsong,

    Don't mean to badger you, but almost all of the medical experts who studied the autopsy report and the associated microscopic slides concluded that JonBenet had suffered prior sexual abuse. These included Dr. David Jones; Dr. James Monteleone; Dr. John McCann; Dr. Cyril Wecht; Dr. Ronald Wright; and many others.

    Dr. Wecht, who is a medical doctor, a lawyer, and a coroner, told the Daily Camera in 1997, "Chronic inflammation and epithelial erosion of the vagina indicates sexual abuse more than two days old."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Rainsong,

    Don't mean to badger you, but almost all of the medical experts who studied the autopsy report and the associated microscopic slides concluded that JonBenet had suffered prior sexual abuse. These included Dr. David Jones; Dr. James Monteleone; Dr. John McCann; Dr. Cyril Wecht; Dr. Ronald Wright; and many others.

    Dr. Wecht, who is a medical doctor, a lawyer, and a coroner, told the Daily Camera in 1997, "Chronic inflammation and epithelial erosion of the vagina indicates sexual abuse more than two days old."
    Wecht is entitled to his opinion and like the other experts,he did not examine JonBenet's body. All he--and they--had were photos and the autopsy report.

    Again: "There are doctors (even pediatricians) who claim that any inflammation of a little girl's vulva is a manifestation of sex abuse. Most, however, claim that this is an extremely common finding and can result from sweat, tight pants, certain kinds of soap, and the occasional mild rubbing (and masturbatory) activity of the normal girl."

    Per Schiller: Without semen or some other hard evidence, the incest theory went nowhere. A careful review of Dr. Beuf''s medical record gave no indication of prior abuse. Nor could the police find any indication of suspicious behavior on the part of JonBenet's parents.

    The only reason to conclude--in the face of the LACK of corroborating evidence--that JonBenet was a victim of sexual abuse is to claim one of the parents perpetrated the murder.

    Rainsong

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