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  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    I doubt they left full tracks of blood considering we know it fades off.
    Yes, but the bathmat print is quite intensive, isn't it? And it's the end of a trail that started in Meredith's room. So, Raffaele stepped barefoot (that's interesting also) in blood, made some quite intensive traces through the area where Guede's traces and a small luminol footprint are untouched and ended up in the bathroom. Do I understand correctly?


    Some of their prints couldve been left while doing the clean up with trace amounts on their feet,I don't know.
    That's good observation. That would mean they were doing also the clean up barefoot. That makes me wonder about Filomena's room. DO you think the traces in there are also part of a footprint trail that was later cleaned up?

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    IMO they were leaving evidence of the lone burglar. So why would they mop the entire floor? Same with the poo left in the toilet that AK made sure everyone knew about.
    Going back to this for a moment. Clearly they took a lot of care not to disturb Guede's shoeprints while cleaning their own bloody prints and also their own residual prints they made during the clean up (they missed only two or three, apart from the bathmat but that one was intentional).

    Now, it's interesting that in the morning they pointed out the carefully preserved poo and bathmat print to the police but not the shoeprints.

  3. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katody View Post
    Yes, but the bathmat print is quite intensive, isn't it? And it's the end of a trail that started in Meredith's room. So, Raffaele stepped barefoot (that's interesting also) in blood, made some quite intensive traces through the area where Guede's traces and a small luminol footprint are untouched and ended up in the bathroom. Do I understand correctly?



    That's good observation. That would mean they were doing also the clean up barefoot. That makes me wonder about Filomena's room. DO you think the traces in there are also part of a footprint trail that was later cleaned up?
    Sure but it's also watered down and not a full print, as whoever made it was careful not to step off the mat or let his heel touch the tile.

    I have never said they wore shoes during the cleanup in fact I've never commented about shoes/barefoot during the attack. So I don't know where the "also doing the clean up barefoot" comes from.

    I have already said multiple times that I don't think there was a "full" trail of prints in the corridor. So no I don't think the trace in Filomenas room was part of a trail that led there, considering it wasn't a footprint. I don't know exactly how that was left but it had both Meredith and Amandas DNA iirc.

    I have never claimed to have all the answers, I am trying to answer your questions for what I believe about the evidence. That is all.

  4. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katody View Post
    Going back to this for a moment. Clearly they took a lot of care not to disturb Guede's shoeprints while cleaning their own bloody prints and also their own residual prints they made during the clean up (they missed only two or three, apart from the bathmat but that one was intentional).

    Now, it's interesting that in the morning they pointed out the carefully preserved poo and bathmat print to the police but not the shoeprints.
    Do you think if Amanda had acknowledged the bloody shoeprints in the "things that shocked" her, them waiting 2.5 hours to call the police would've been acceptable? Or would those have been a sure sign something was really wrong.

    Again I don't think AK realized the bathmat print was identifiable. Clearly she never described a bloody footprint on the mat did she?

  5. #1055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    Sure but it's also watered down and not a full print, as whoever made it was careful not to step off the mat or let his heel touch the tile.
    Yes, but it did originate in Meredith's room? It became watered down later. There was no water in the murder room, there was water in the bathroom, after all. So Raffaele had to step into a lot of blood and track it down to the bathroom, right?

    I have never said they wore shoes during the cleanup in fact I've never commented about shoes/barefoot during the attack. So I don't know where the "also doing the clean up barefoot" comes from.
    Maybe I was too fast with the inference from your words. Bathmat print is barefoot = barefoot during the attack. Residual luminol prints left during cleaning are also bare feet. You don't agree?



    I have already said multiple times that I don't think there was a "full" trail of prints in the corridor.
    But there must have been at some point, and it was cleaned up, leaving just 3 prints. Or were they sweeping their own prints while walking?


    So no I don't think the trace in Filomenas room was part of a trail that led there, considering it wasn't a footprint. I don't know exactly how that was left but it had both Meredith and Amandas DNA iirc.
    If it was not a foot, it would seem Amanda touched the floor with some other body part that had Meredith's blood on it, leaving her own and Meredith's DNA. Do I make sense?

    I have never claimed to have all the answers, I am trying to answer your questions for what I believe about the evidence. That is all.
    I know we don't have all answers, I assure you. Don't worry about it. I'm trying to connect the dots and fill in the gaps together with you, to arrive at a scenario of what happened.

  6. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    Do you think if Amanda had acknowledged the bloody shoeprints in the "things that shocked" her, them waiting 2.5 hours to call the police would've been acceptable? Or would those have been a sure sign something was really wrong.
    Yes, quite a pitfall and that was very cunning to avoid it.

    Again I don't think AK realized the bathmat print was identifiable. Clearly she never described a bloody footprint on the mat did she?
    If she was hoping others won't notice it's a print it was very dumb.

    BTW "things that shocked her" is a mistranslation

  7. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katody View Post
    Yes, but it did originate in Meredith's room? It became watered down later. There was no water in the murder room, there was water in the bathroom, after all. So Raffaele had to step into a lot of blood and track it down to the bathroom, right?


    Maybe I was too fast with the inference from your words. Bathmat print is barefoot = barefoot during the attack. Residual luminol prints left during cleaning are also bare feet. You don't agree?




    But there must have been at some point, and it was cleaned up, leaving just 3 prints. Or were they sweeping their own prints while walking?



    If it was not a foot, it would seem Amanda touched the floor with some other body part that had Meredith's blood on it, leaving her own and Meredith's DNA. Do I make sense?



    I know we don't have all answers, I assure you. Don't worry about it. I'm trying to connect the dots and fill in the gaps together with you, to arrive at a scenario of what happened.
    Sure

    Yes but I've also said its possible they didn't step in blood during the attack as RG apparently was able to avoid it as well.

    I've covered this over and over

    Yes I can see what you're saying but I've already said I don't know how that trace was left.

    I don't know about connecting the dots, we disagree completely. You think RG was the lone wolf and I don't. I don't actually feel like I have holes to fill in.

  8. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katody View Post
    Yes, quite a pitfall and that was very cunning to avoid it.


    If she was hoping others won't notice it's a print it was very dumb.

    BTW "things that shocked her" is a mistranslation
    I don't think it was cunning at all, seems obvious that bloody shoeprints would mean something serious had happened and there could be no waiting around for hours before calling the police. In fact acknowledging bloody footprints would've warranted an immediate call to the roommates and police IMO. Amanda never even thought to call Meredith from the cottage to see if her phones were behind her locked door, though she was so panicked at one point she tried to climb from the balcony to see in her room. Quite the contradiction.

    I never said she didn't think others would notice it as a print, I said IMO they didn't think it would be identifiable. It would only add that someone else had been there. I never said she was the brightest crayon.

    Btw that was a figure of speech, my speech and reference to the blood,poo and open front door list.

  9. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    Amanda never even thought to call Meredith from the cottage to see if her phones were behind her locked door, though she was so panicked at one point she tried to climb from the balcony to see in her room. Quite the contradiction.
    Amber , did you read this part in the book? Where AK climbs out onto the ledge and holds onto the railing, and leans at a 45 degree angle to see in the window, poised dangerously above the gravel walkway far below - and Raffaele yells at her that she may fall and hurt herself?......It had struck me, intuitively, that she may have been checking to see if she'd left the lamp in the room. Also, she may have seen it and RS tried to kick in the door, before they realized it was a bad idea..... just speculation.....

  10. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Amber , did you read this part in the book? Where AK climbs out onto the ledge and holds onto the railing, and leans at a 45 degree angle to see in the window, poised dangerously above the gravel walkway far below - and Raffaele yells at her that she may fall and hurt herself?......It had struck me, intuitively, that she may have been checking to see if she'd left the lamp in the room. Also, she may have seen it and RS tried to kick in the door, before they realized it was a bad idea..... just speculation.....
    I've done so much reading I can't really recall where I read it but I agree with your thoughts, that very well could be.


  11. #1061
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    The lamp that was on the floor at the foot of the bed? One thinks that by looking into a window one can see the lamp there? Somehow I doubt that unless of course one can see through things and if one can then one could see through the door without need of a window.

    MOO

  12. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    The lamp that was on the floor at the foot of the bed? One thinks that by looking into a window one can see the lamp there? Somehow I doubt that unless of course one can see through things and if one can then one could see through the door without need of a window.

    MOO
    I have no idea what MK's window looked like, how big it was, where it was placed, etc. I would hope you could see a great deal of that tiny bedroom through the window, if you looked through it and down to the floor.

  13. #1063
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    Here is the layout of the cottage. Also included is the window of Meredith's room. If AK leaned over from the patio to look into the window there is no way that she was able to see the foot of the bed that is by the bedroom door. The lamp was on the floor at the foot of the bed, behind the door when the door was open.

    Links for photos:
    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery5.html
    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    Here is the layout of the cottage. Also included is the window of Meredith's room. If AK leaned over from the patio to look into the window there is no way that she was able to see the foot of the bed that is by the bedroom door. The lamp was on the floor at the foot of the bed, behind the door when the door was open.

    Links for photos:
    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery5.html
    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html
    Thanks for this: Most appreciated. However, perhaps she forgot where they had left it.......

  15. #1065
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    Last edited by KateB; 05-24-2015 at 10:45 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

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