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  1. #1
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    Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

    We are opening up this thread with new rules.

    If you are a "Ramseys did it" poster then you are not allowed to post on this thread. The IDI's get one thread and the "RDI's" get many.

    If you are posting on the "Intruder" thread please remember your posts must be reasonable and you cannot point fingers at innocent people.

    Until the police either solve the case or there is a real confession the "Intruder" shall remain nameless.

    If you are an IDI person and you want to post in a reasonable manner on the RDI thread then you may do so but I am telling you I will not tolerate any sort of disruption no matter what the post is disguised to look like.

    Hopefully this will keep the peace.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
    Help our Administrator Bessie
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    Tricia Griffith
    triciastruecrimeradio@gmail.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098






  2. #2
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    Where was the old elevator shaft located? In JR's '98 interview, he mentions a basement storage area/closet that was situated within the old elevator shaft. He also mentions the door appeared damaged after the crime. This excerpt has me really curious:

    "5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. The thing that always
    6 puzzled me was, when we had the house living room
    7 was all done and we were trying to get it back
    8 together, we kept talking about that we needed to
    9 replace the closet doors that's damaged in the
    10 basement. Couldn't fix it. I can remember what
    11 closet door was damaged.
    12 Apparently I finally found it; Ellis had cut in
    13 half. But I think it was either this door or this
    14 door. It was a heavy door. Because we had an
    15 elevator here and we took it out.
    16 LOU SMIT: Right. Right.
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: And it was one of those
    18 heavy doors. And I was very curious as to what
    19 were they talking about the door was damaged, they
    20 had to replace it. And I looked at that door in
    21 Ellis's office and it was slit. But it didn't look
    22 like it was -- I mean my suspicion was, that it
    23 was an elevator door that you can open from the
    24 outside but I don't think you can open it from the
    25 inside. So I was just wondering that if something
    0223
    1 got in there and couldn't get out, did they --
    2 LOU SMIT: Push it.
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: -- push and break it open.
    4 It didn't look like that to me. But paneling was
    5 split. But I couldn't tell what was going on
    6 around the latch. But that was very perplexing to
    7 me. Why was that door damaged? Because it was not
    8 damaged, to my knowledge.
    9 LOU SMIT: Have you run any tests on that
    10 to see if it was from the inside or outside or
    11 anything?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Ellis has it. Now it's in
    13 storage. But that's an item of curiosity.
    14 LOU SMIT: And, like anything else, those
    15 items can be attached. You know, they got great
    16 labs and the labs are free, and all of that stuff
    17 can be done. And it would be interesting to see if
    18 it was from the inside or the outside.
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. Because if it was that
    20 door, and it was from the inside --
    21 LOU SMIT: It may or may not show you
    22 something.
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    24 LOU SMIT: But at least it would be
    25 something that you should look at.
    0224
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    2 LOU SMIT: And has the door fingerprinted
    3 anyway?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know.
    5 BRYAN MORGAN: I don't believe we have. I
    6 think when we discovered it, it was something was
    7 unfamiliar with. We gave Ellis instructions to get
    8 it and preserve it in whatever state it was that
    9 he found it. I don't know exactly when detectives
    10 (INAUDIBLE) but that was some time after the house
    11 was released to us.
    12 LOU SMIT: Right.
    13 BRYAN MORGAN: We would be happy to turn
    14 over the door who wants to do any kind tests.
    15 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE). In fact, that's
    16 something that laboratories could do and they got
    17 the equipment to do all the fingerprinting stuff
    18 on three. Again, if we can speak with him.
    19 BRYAN MORGAN: When he got it, then how
    20 he tried to preserve it. Sure. But we are happy to
    21 make that available.
    22 LOU SMIT: Great. Great."

  3. #3
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    So what happened to the door and any evidence that may have been on it?
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    So what happened to the door and any evidence that may have been on it?
    I don't know. It could be nothing. There are many curious bits of information in these transcripts.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    It's not in the autopsy report because it wasn't part of the autopsy.
    I'd have thought that was obvious.

    Personal question here. Do you have a reason to distrust police?
    I mean, I don't trust politicians, but I trust police. So is there an actual reason, or is it just police associated with this case?
    Okay, yes, I do! Back in 1993 a cops wife was murdered in my small town, and I being the town hairdresser I heard a lot of gossip. I knew most of the main suspects and was a little un-nerved by one in particular. Mentioning this to a customer with details only LE knew[my ex sis in law was married to an officer! and she told me if I guessed initials she'd tell me everything she knew] the police were at the salon and questioned me for 2+ hours. They tried many times to get me to confess to the murder and I didn't even know the woman. Plus my alibi was solid I was working a 12 hour day and had been seen by many people. So yeah, cops can be snaky just to get it solved. It happens all the time. There are innocent people in prison right now. It's common sense.

  6. #6
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    I take the police on a case by case basis. I never hold one depts mistakes against another one.
    In this case the police and investigators made a mess all on their own. No one needs to look to far to see the mistakes that most likely caused this case to be cold.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  7. #7
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    I thought I knew everything about this case but this is the first time I have heard about an "elevator" in the house. What are we talking about here ... a people elevator . or a Dumbwaiter (I think that is what they are called ... sending meal trays etc from floor to floor)

    Thank you

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie M View Post
    I thought I knew everything about this case but this is the first time I have heard about an "elevator" in the house. What are we talking about here ... a people elevator . or a Dumbwaiter (I think that is what they are called ... sending meal trays etc from floor to floor)

    Thank you
    According to JR, in his 1998 LE interview, the elevator was an actual "people elevator" installed for the previous owner's use:

    "0373
    1 MIKE KANE: Were there additions on there
    2 at the time you bought the house?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: That was on.
    4 MIKE KANE: It just hadn't been finished?
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, that part of it was
    6 actually okay. What hadn't been finished was the
    7 third floor bedroom area. It was finished but it
    8 wasn't done very well.
    9 They kind of gutted the second floor, the old part
    10 of the second floor and made one big room. And we
    11 wanted bedrooms there. They had elevator shafts
    12 right through the middle of the house. It was just
    13 put in the worst spot because it tore up the every
    14 floor it went through. And that had to go.
    15 So it was just really, it was an older couple and
    16 she had a bad leg, and they put the elevator so
    17 that she could get up and down. It was made for
    18 them and nobody else. And we tore it out once we
    19 bought it.
    20 MIKE KANE: When did you start remodeling
    21 that?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably shortly after we
    23 bought it. And it went on for quite two or three
    24 years in bits and pieces. We had it totally
    25 finished before this Historic Home Tour, which I

    0374
    1 think was in '94.
    2 One of the reasons I wanted to be in the Historic
    3 Home Tour was so we'd get it finished. And we'd
    4 draw a line in the sand and say, it's done. I
    5 remember that."

  9. #9
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    IDI Theory... Please correct with known facts

    Here is a pretty lame "Friendly" IDI theory (best I could come up with):

    1) Perp enters the house at while Ramsey's are away on Christmas day, through the metal grate and basement window.
    2) He is wearing gloves, has a brown bag with a rope, cord, a rag and a flash light in it. His motive is to sexually abuse JBR.
    3) He hides in JAR's room, knowing it is empty and a good hiding place but also a good place to hear everything going on in the house.
    4) Ramsey's arrive home, JBR and BR are put to bed and JR and PR go off to bed too. Perp patiently waits for all things to go quite.
    5) Perp then goes to the next room which belongs to JBR. He leaves the brown bag and the rope in the room but brings the flashlight and the rag. Wakes her up using the flashlight to shine on her face. She is surprised to see him there and doesn't get scared as she knows him.
    6) Perp says "Lets go eat pineapple!" They go to the kitchen, perp grabs bowl, spoon and pineapple and sets it out. No fingerprints on the bowl/spoon as he is wearing gloves. Either JBR eats the pineapple with her fingers or the perp spoon feeds her.
    7) After she has had enough pineapple, perp asks if she wants to go down to basement for "playtime". Perp has already grabbed her favorite doll and blanket from her room so JBR doesn't get too afraid.
    8) They go down to the basement and Perp starts to get pervy on JBR. Like stripping her, tying her and using a paint brush from the near by art supply box, to molest her. JBR starts to get really uncomfortable and before she gets into a full blown panic and screams, she is hit on the head with the flashlight and is knocked out.
    9) Perp realizes she is still alive and makes the garrote using the cord he brought and chokes her, resulting in her death.
    10) Perp is now overcome with guilt. He wants to leave the body with some dignity, so he wipes the blood with the rag, goes to JBRs room and grabs the first underwear he can find (doesn't care if they are size 12), returns and dresses her in them, wraps her in the blanket.
    11) He now knows that if the body is found, he can come under suspicion as he is known by JBR and the rest of the Ramsey's and wont have an alibi.
    12) So he heads up to the main floor, grabs a pen and a pad, and writes the ransom note, and leaves it on the steps (so anyone coming down the steps immediately finds the note).
    13) Next he heads down again, tries to carry the body out of the tiny window and fails. Tries again by using a suitcase to get better elevation, but fails again.
    14) Murder being on his conscience, he is not as steel nerved as he was when he entered the house. So he leaves the body and flees though the window and grate. Leaves doll in basement and brown bag in JAR's room.
    15) Spider makes a web on the window corner after he is gone.


    Feel free to blow holes in this theory. I don't know all the facts by heart so there are probably a 100 different mistakes in there. But if you can correct those mistakes by plugging in the correct facts, maybe this becomes a plausible theory.

    Thanks for reading.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesetup85 View Post
    Here is a pretty lame "Friendly" IDI theory (best I could come up with):

    1) Perp enters the house at while Ramsey's are away on Christmas day, through the metal grate and basement window.
    2) He is wearing gloves, has a brown bag with a rope, cord, a rag and a flash light in it. His motive is to sexually abuse JBR.
    3) He hides in JAR's room, knowing it is empty and a good hiding place but also a good place to hear everything going on in the house.
    4) Ramsey's arrive home, JBR and BR are put to bed and JR and PR go off to bed too. Perp patiently waits for all things to go quite.
    5) Perp then goes to the next room which belongs to JBR. He leaves the brown bag and the rope in the room but brings the flashlight and the rag. Wakes her up using the flashlight to shine on her face. She is surprised to see him there and doesn't get scared as she knows him.
    6) Perp says "Lets go eat pineapple!" They go to the kitchen, perp grabs bowl, spoon and pineapple and sets it out. No fingerprints on the bowl/spoon as he is wearing gloves. Either JBR eats the pineapple with her fingers or the perp spoon feeds her.
    7) After she has had enough pineapple, perp asks if she wants to go down to basement for "playtime". Perp has already grabbed her favorite doll and blanket from her room so JBR doesn't get too afraid.
    8) They go down to the basement and Perp starts to get pervy on JBR. Like stripping her, tying her and using a paint brush from the near by art supply box, to molest her. JBR starts to get really uncomfortable and before she gets into a full blown panic and screams, she is hit on the head with the flashlight and is knocked out.
    9) Perp realizes she is still alive and makes the garrote using the cord he brought and chokes her, resulting in her death.
    10) Perp is now overcome with guilt. He wants to leave the body with some dignity, so he wipes the blood with the rag, goes to JBRs room and grabs the first underwear he can find (doesn't care if they are size 12), returns and dresses her in them, wraps her in the blanket.
    11) He now knows that if the body is found, he can come under suspicion as he is known by JBR and the rest of the Ramsey's and wont have an alibi.
    12) So he heads up to the main floor, grabs a pen and a pad, and writes the ransom note, and leaves it on the steps (so anyone coming down the steps immediately finds the note).
    13) Next he heads down again, tries to carry the body out of the tiny window and fails. Tries again by using a suitcase to get better elevation, but fails again.
    14) Murder being on his conscience, he is not as steel nerved as he was when he entered the house. So he leaves the body and flees though the window and grate. Leaves doll in basement and brown bag in JAR's room.
    15) Spider makes a web on the window corner after he is gone.


    Feel free to blow holes in this theory. I don't know all the facts by heart so there are probably a 100 different mistakes in there. But if you can correct those mistakes by plugging in the correct facts, maybe this becomes a plausible theory.

    Thanks for reading.
    I think you present a plausible scenario. I'm not so sure JB knew her killer, and I don't think "guilt" was weighing heavily on his mind. The bat is a likely choice, opposed to the flashlight. ...another likely choice. I think the RN may have been written beforehand, while waiting in the house. I'm also unsure that she ate pineapple after returning from the Whites. The oversized panties may have been in the wine cellar?... AND, I think she was strangled before she was bludgeoned. I haven't come across any information that leads me to believe the perp brought a doll with him. I think he may have exited through the butler's pantry/kitchen. As well, I certainly have suspicions about some POIs, but I believe the evidentiary DNA is crucial to solving this case.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama2JML View Post
    I think you present a plausible scenario. I'm not so sure JB knew her killer, and I don't think "guilt" was weighing heavily on his mind. The bat is a likely choice, opposed to the flashlight. ...another likely choice. I think the RN may have been written beforehand, while waiting in the house. I'm also unsure that she ate pineapple after returning from the Whites. The oversized panties may have been in the wine cellar?... AND, I think she was strangled before she was bludgeoned. I haven't come across any information that leads me to believe the perp brought a doll with him. I think he may have exited through the butler's pantry/kitchen. As well, I certainly have suspicions about some POIs, but I believe the evidentiary DNA is crucial to solving this case.

    Since this is an IDI theory, we have to believe that PR had no reason to lie when she says that JBR was not fed pineapple before or after the party and she did not put the bowl out. The Whites also said they didn't have pineapple served in the party. So I am left with the option that the perp put out the bowl and fed JBR.

    As for the dolls, some one suggested that their may be one of JBRs dolls in the basement:
    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=185013"]A Doll Was Placed Next To JonBenet's Body In The Cellar! - Page 5 - Forums For Justice[/ame]

    Also, I think she was hit before the choking, for the following reason:
    The tape (which I left out, but in my theory the perp brought with him), on JBRs mouth had a perfect impression of her lips. Which means she did not struggle when the tape was applied to her mouth. The perp knocked her out, and while he was preparing the garrote, he put the tape on her mouth in case she woke up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesetup85 View Post
    Since this is an IDI theory, we have to believe that PR had no reason to lie when she says that JBR was not fed pineapple before or after the party and she did not put the bowl out. The Whites also said they didn't have pineapple served in the party. So I am left with the option that the perp put out the bowl and fed JBR.

    As for the dolls, some one suggested that their may be one of JBRs dolls in the basement:
    A Doll Was Placed Next To JonBenet's Body In The Cellar! - Page 5 - Forums For Justice

    Also, I think she was hit before the choking, for the following reason:
    The tape (which I left out, but in my theory the perp brought with him), on JBRs mouth had a perfect impression of her lips. Which means she did not struggle when the tape was applied to her mouth. The perp knocked her out, and while he was preparing the garrote, he put the tape on her mouth in case she woke up.
    Re: the pineapple
    What makes you think we'd have to believe Patsy lied?

    Re: a doll
    I've read the thread. I don't think a perp would have to account for the doll in the photograph.

    Re: the tape
    You've based this portion of your theory on something ST wrote, but that I've not seen corroborated.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama2JML View Post
    Re: the pineapple
    What makes you think we'd have to believe Patsy lied?

    Re: a doll
    I've read the thread. I don't think a perp would have to account for the doll in the photograph.


    Re: the tape
    You've based this portion of your theory on something ST wrote, but that I've not seen corroborated.
    I'm not even sure the doll in question (wine cellar photo) exists.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama2JML View Post
    Re: the pineapple
    What makes you think we'd have to believe Patsy lied?

    Re: a doll
    I've read the thread. I don't think a perp would have to account for the doll in the photograph.

    Re: the tape
    You've based this portion of your theory on something ST wrote, but that I've not seen corroborated.
    From what I see there is no proof there was no pineapple at the Whites.

    I don't believe that Patsy lied about the pineapple. I think that if JBR ate it, she just did. It was not given to her. It could have been sitting out and she walked by and got some and ate it.

    I can not see any reason for PR to lie about this. It just has no bearing on making anything better for them. She could have just said she did not know. But she said no which meant she had no knowledge of it and did not think JBR would have eaten it at any time at their house that day.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama2JML View Post
    I think you present a plausible scenario. I'm not so sure JB knew her killer, and I don't think "guilt" was weighing heavily on his mind. The bat is a likely choice, opposed to the flashlight. ...another likely choice. I think the RN may have been written beforehand, while waiting in the house. I'm also unsure that she ate pineapple after returning from the Whites. The oversized panties may have been in the wine cellar?... AND, I think she was strangled before she was bludgeoned. I haven't come across any information that leads me to believe the perp brought a doll with him. I think he may have exited through the butler's pantry/kitchen. As well, I certainly have suspicions about some POIs, but I believe the evidentiary DNA is crucial to solving this case.

    I believe the intruder is someone who lived fairly close, 22 to 40 and coveted having JBR. I also believe he was in the house when they returned home and probably intended on taking her out of the house. But I don't know that as this case has lots of sides that just don't make much sense.

    I believe that if LE would have found JBR in the house upon their initial dispatch, maybe LE wouldn't have been put under so much criticism and there would have been more cooperation and the case may have been solved.

    I think talking about Pineapple is ridiculous as well.

    Merry Xmas!
    The discovery of additional matching DNA in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case is important information that raises more questions in the search for JonBenet's killer. The BPD concurs with the Boulder District Attorney's Office that this is a significant finding. The PD has continued to look diligently for the source of the foreign DNA, and to date, we have compared DNA samples taken from more than 200 people. Finding the source of the DNA is key to helping us determine who killed JonBenet

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