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Thread: MI - Dr. Teleka Patrick, 30, Kalamazoo, 5 Dec 2013 - #2

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaStar View Post
    I wonder about the clothing items. Did she go back to her apartment to get clothes? No indication that she did. Did she take clothes with her because she was planning on going away for an extended time?

    So many questions and so few answers. This one is a real mystery. What was she running away from?
    I keep thinking about those clothes in the car too! Did they match the clothes she was wearing in the surveillance video from Radisson? If so, were there additional clothes in the car? Was the clothing strewn about? Packed neatly in an overnight case?
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenbear View Post
    I have to leave immediatly will be back later. The family is not in Michigan now. I will look up the post later.
    Tenesha Patrick said the family will spend Christmas at the home of Irene and Mattahais Patrick in Florida, and then travel back to Kalamazoo after the holiday.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ka_patric.html

    Irene Patrick said, as she sat Wednesday inside a Kalamazoo hotel where she and her husband, Mattahais, and the couple’s daughter, Tenesha, have set up camp waiting to hear word on Teleka Patrick’s whereabouts.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ts_wonder.html
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    Sorry BDE couldnt find the post on them leaving town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBrew View Post
    With respect, this isn't always - or even frequently - the case. Psychosis can be internalized and hidden, externalized and subtle, or overt and full blown (like your husband in your example). Even trained mental health professionals can have issues distinguishing it from what would seem like otherwise 'normal' behavior. There is no way to tell from looking at that video whether she was in a state of psychosis. In fact, whereas most folks are saying she looks 'normal' and 'under control' in that video, I'm seeing someone perhaps agitated and incapable of communicating her needs adequately.
    I agree. She doesn't appear to be in fear of someone who may be following her. No glancing around, no looking over her shoulder. What I do see in this footage and stills taken from a different angle is something in the set of her mouth, her stance, that tells me she is irritated, angry, the sense that 'I don't have time for this.' Anger will impair ones ability to communicate effectively.

    As for the hood being up, if it wasn't because she wanted to avoid being recognized, my guess is she was worried about her hair. Looking back through her photos, she appears to make use of extensions and hair pieces. A long shift, sleeping in the call room, crappy weather can wreak havoc on a woman's 'do.

    She also seems to have lost a fair bit of weight I between convocation at LLMU and videos/pics taken up to and including the end of Novembet 2013.

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  8. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheese View Post
    I can't think of a single case of a mentally ill person being put the FBI's Kidnappings & Missing Persons list. If they did put missing people having psychotic breaks on that list, it would be way way longer than it is.

    Out of the hundreds of thousands of missing person cases, only a rare 71 - and that's adults and children combined - have made that list. Psychosis and voluntary missing isn't going to cut it.
    Oh, I'd venture to guess the FBI gets involved in hundreds of cases of mentally ill, missing adults each year:
    Boulet, Rowe, and Hogan are among thousands of mentally ill men and women who disappear each year -- barely noticed outside of their families and a clutch of organizations devoted to keeping their hopes alive. Their advocates believe that most of the 8,000 missing adults listed by the FBI as ''endangered" or ''disabled" suffer from some kind of mental illness and may have experienced a psychological break with reality that prompts them to abandon their former lives or attempt suicide. http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com...ssing.html?m=1.
    Also, there could be a combination of factors in this case. Mentally I'll women are quite vulnerable to predation. Surely the FBI shouldn't abandon or refuse to take a case merely because a victim might be mentally ill?

    The FBI is likely trying to figure this case out. It's a complex one. I don't think anything is totally clear yet but we know a young professional went missing, perhaps off the interstate, near state borders, etc. so it makes sense they are involved.

    Finally, I would never characterize a mentally ill person who disappears while in the throes of paranoia or psychosis as "voluntary missing". It's not the same as a person in their right mind making a concrete decision to disappear.

    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    Someone pointed out on the previous thread that if she was showing signs of a breakdown that her colleagues and supervisors would have been on top of it, considering they are all in psychiatry. Stressed and agitated doesn't point to psychotic breakdown. Neurotic, maybe. But not psychotic.

    If she were having a psychotic episode, she wouldn't have been able to hide it, IMO.

    (I'm not in the field of psychiatry like pensfan but I'm a psychologist. I have no idea what really is going on with Teleka but psychosis is very low on my list of possibilities.)
    Caveat: I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist or even close. But I have had occasion to do quite a bit of "research", in relation to my child custody cases (evals often deal with mental issues, stability questions, etc., and I've had to educate myself to be able to defend reports or cross examine the evaluator). Also, I've researched a bit in relation to a few cases in here (Elisa Lam, Bryce Laspisa).

    As I cited earlier, even psychiatrists, trained and actively assessing a new patient, can miss signs of psychosis. It's not always, apparently, the florid, typical presentation (a la Amanda Bynes, Jason Russell), that leads to hospitalizations. From what I've seen, it can manifest itself in hidden paranoid thinking, voices no one is aware of, more subtle signs. Most people become aware of psychosis when it's at the Jason Russell stage. But there are earlier stages, particularly with initial onset. There is something called the prodromal stage:
    The At-Risk or Prodrome Phase – 'Something is not quite right'
    *
    Psychotic illnesses rarely present out of the blue. Almost always, these disorders are preceded by a gradual change in psychosocial functioning, often over an extended period. This is the period during which the individual may start to experience a change in themselves, but have not yet started experiencing clear-cut psychotic symptoms. This is the prodromal phase of the illness, which is known as the "at risk mental state" phase.
    Changes in this phase vary from person to person and the duration of this phase is also quite variable, although it is usually over several months. In general, the at risk phase is a fluctuating and fluid process, with symptoms gradually appearing and changing over time.
    *
    Some of the changes seen during this phase include:

    Changes in affect such as anxiety, irritability and depression
    Changes in cognition such as difficulty in concentration or memory
    Changes in thought content, such as a preoccupation with new ideas often of an unusual nature
    Physical changes such as sleep disturbance and loss of energy
    Social withdrawal and impairment of role functioning, which can include deterioration in school or work performance
    *
    The person may also experience some attenuated positive symptoms such as mild thought disorder, ideas of reference, suspiciousness, odd beliefs and perceptual distortions which are not quite of psychotic intensity or duration.
    These may be brief and intermittent at first, escalating during times of stress or substance abuse and then perhaps subsiding, before eventually becoming sustained with the emergence of clear-cut psychosis. http://eppic.org.au/phases-psychosis
    I see people assuming a lot that if a person is psychotic, everyone would know and they would likely have a diagnosis. But few consider initial onset: Someone's normal, then slight changes occur and then eventually it can morph into a sudden, full blown psychosis. Dr. Patrick may have been experiencing issues that aren't totally apparent, that suddenly morphed into something that was, but too late. She's already gone. There have been so many cases of mass murderers, like Charles Whitman or Aaron Alexis, who managed to keep their psychotic thoughts relatively hidden, even worked, etc., until suddenly they couldn't.

    I don't know if that's what was happening here. I can't tell. Some things don't fit with that scenario. But I still can't rule it out as a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogwai View Post
    Just a quick note on psychosis - have any of you ever seen someone in a psychotic break? My husband has bipolar disorder and has gone psychotic. There is no way he could check into a hotel in that state. And if he did end up at a hotel, he would be incapable of being that calm. It would be more like running in frantically telling the clerk he needs a room to get away from the aliens, ending up with the cops being called.

    She does not look like she is in psychosis. Nervous breakdown is completely different, and could always be a possibility. In a nervous breakdown you're still on planet Earth and could get it together enough to rent a hotel room without the clerk panicking.

    I don't believe either of these happened, personally. I still think she was running from someone familiar with her car, and who had access to her accounts, including cell phone. Just my opinion.
    That's one experience. There are others. Some people experiencing a mental break can seem totally calm. Also, it doesn't have to be psychosis. It could be another mental issue. I don't know what the diagnosis would be for "nervous breakdown", but there could be various possibilities like disassociative fugue, or whatever. With that, people often show zero outward signs, forget who they are, assume a new identity and have the compulsion to travel far distances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Friday View Post
    Teleka's phone was found at the hospital along with her purse the day after she was last seen at the hotel. No doubt the phone was turned over to LE at that time.

    Having the phone in hand, I don't think LE needed a search warrant to look at the phone to see who Teleka would have received calls from, if that information was still stored on the phone in the call log.

    Now if the call log had been erased then yes a warrant (or at least some paper work) would have been needed to get the information for the service provider for her phone.

    I think LE knew early on who Teleka talked with regarding the disturbing phone call she received on the 4th.

    JMO
    My phone becomes locked within a few minutes of inactivity. They would've needed a warrant if that happened with hers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Back from a quick trip to the market. DH and I talked about Teleka on our way. Could the erratic driving have been due to TP hitting a patch of black ice? This is not at all uncommon on Michigan roads during the winter.
    I wondered that from the start.
    Last edited by gitana1; 12-24-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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  10. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheese View Post
    I can't think of a single case of a mentally ill person being put the FBI's Kidnappings & Missing Persons list. If they did put missing people having psychotic breaks on that list, it would be way way longer than it is.

    Out of the hundreds of thousands of missing person cases, only a rare 71 - and that's adults and children combined - have made that list. Psychosis and voluntary missing isn't going to cut it.
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Oh, I'd venture to guess the FBI gets involved in hundreds of cases of mentally ill, missing adults each year:
    Oh yes, I know. But I didn't say gets involved in, I said placed on the FBI Kidnappings & Missing Person list.

    Very, very few of the missing person cases the FBI gets involved in get placed on their Kidnappings & Missing Persons list. Currently only 71. That's total including adults and children.

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
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  12. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftybatchy View Post
    I agree. She doesn't appear to be in fear of someone who may be following her. No glancing around, no looking over her shoulder. What I do see in this footage and stills taken from a different angle is something in the set of her mouth, her stance, that tells me she is irritated, angry, the sense that 'I don't have time for this.' Anger will impair ones ability to communicate effectively.

    As for the hood being up, if it wasn't because she wanted to avoid being recognized, my guess is she was worried about her hair. Looking back through her photos, she appears to make use of extensions and hair pieces. A long shift, sleeping in the call room, crappy weather can wreak havoc on a woman's 'do.

    She also seems to have lost a fair bit of weight I between convocation at LLMU and videos/pics taken up to and including the end of Novembet 2013.
    I thought she seemed angry too. Not totally calm, but not scared.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cheese View Post
    Oh yes, I know. But I didn't say gets involved in, I said placed on the FBI Kidnappings & Missing Person list.

    Very, very few of the missing person cases the FBI gets involved in get placed on their Kidnappings & Missing Persons list. Currently only 71. That's total including adults and children.

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
    If the FBI had figured out what happened, they wouldn't need to continue to investigate. There are circumstances that point to a possibility that she was abducted or transported across state lines. That possibility doesn't rule out mental issues occurring at the same time, though. Also, there are other possibilities entirely, such as just mental illness and hiding.

    But until they know for sure, we are talking about a promising, young professional here who has vanished. She is the type of person the country becomes concerned with. The decision of the FBI to become involved in a case can be influenced by political ramifications, and the disappearance of a young doctor would be such a ramification. People tend to ignore, more, the plights of people on welfare, troubled teens, etc., but the more attractive the subject is, the more upper class, the more attention the case gets and sadly, public interest definitely is a factor in how cases are investigated and by whom.

    I think this case may possibly not have been given enough attention by the authorities until the public became aware and interested. (For example, the first news reports I can find began on 12-10 and 12-12-13, days after she was reported missing and "foul play is not suspected in her disappearance." http://www.woodtv.com/web/woodtv/new...cember-12-2013).

    Hence, the family became VERY proactive in trying to get publicity, hiring a PI, etc. And now the FBI is involved. I could be wrong but it's my sense, based on LE activity and statements and the timeline of those.

    But people can't ignore the disappearance of a doctor. People understand teens running away or poor people getting into scrapes and taking off or being victims of domestic violence. It's almost expected in the latter, sadly. But when a pretty and intelligent doctor disappears? Under mysterious circumstances? That's becomes an attractive case to the public and then suddenly, to the authorities.
    KALAMAZOO, MI — On the night she went missing, Dr. Teleka Patrick was stressed and experiencing “a level of agitation,” a private investigator hired by Patrick’s family said Monday.
    However, the source of that stress and its connection to Patrick’s disappearance on Dec. 5 remain a mystery, said Carl H. Clatterbuck III, who runs a private investigation agency in Kalamazoo.
    “What I do know is there was a level of agitation she was experiencing and if I knew specifically what was causing the stress, I might be able to better understand how she was thinking and how that thinking got her into the car moving westerly,” Clatterbuck said. “That is the mystery that we are trying to unravel.


    “Why was she agitated?, Why did she head west? Why did she do any of these things? … That’s the core of what this is about.”
    As he seeks answers, Clatterbuck declined to discuss the specifics of what he believes may have been causing Patrick’s stress and agitation.


    Since being hired, Clatterbuck said he has interviewed Patrick’s family members to try to understand her state of mind leading up to her going missing.


    Clatterbuck said Patrick leaving behind items like her purse, cellphone and wallet is “perplexing.”
    “I have some theories but at this point it’s really premature to say what they are,” he said. “I don’t know for a fact why she left that stuff there … but I really feel that she drove herself to Porter, Ind., and I am interested in her state of mind.”http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ka_patric.html
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    I'm thinking there were potentially dangerous psychological factors from the get go in this situation, meaning that it was quite possibly evident (though subtly and only after the fact) to the coworker who dropped her off, and to the front desk clerk at the hotel, that she was not 'all there'. Perhaps she told the coworker that she was in fear to go home (paranoia) due to something or someone that police later confirmed didn't exist. Perhaps her behavior at the hotel was a little off or bizarre (re: didn't add up/unsettling), so the clerk (and manager) told her that they could not offer her services. She then frustratingly gets onto the shuttle to go to her car so she can high tail it out of town, because even these people are complicit (re: delusions of persecution).

    As she goes down the road, she very well could have been getting into an increasingly psychotic/confused/amnesiac state, and it culminated with the erratic driving and subsequent accident. She gets out of the car, begins walking, and either hitches a ride to no place in particular or succumbs to the cold in one of those snowbanks that are apparently still on the side of the road.

    I doubt - though it is possible - that she met up with an evil stranger who was at that place and at the perfect time (6-10 minutes before police arrived?). Though we see these stranger monster abductions quite a bit, the odds are astronomical, IMO, that this could've occurred with the set of facts that we have.

    I believe, at this time, that the chances of her being alive are just as good (or perhaps better!) as the odds of her being deceased.

    Mostly hypothetical jibber jabber, and as always IMO.

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    (I'm not asking the content of the twitters.)

    What was the last date on Dr. Patrick's twitter? Was that the only deleted SM account? Her FB page wasn't deleted, but she could have two FB pages. tia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensfan View Post
    (I'm not asking the content of the twitters.)

    What was the last date on Dr. Patrick's twitter? Was that the only deleted SM account? Her FB page wasn't deleted, but she could have two FB pages. tia
    I don't know the answer to your questions unfortunately, but IMO her deleting her social media is another potential marker to her state of mind. It could indicate a paranoid shift, meaning that she believed folks were tracking her/spying on her, etc. This could also explain her reasons for abandoning her phone.

    I wonder if she had talked to anyone lately about government spying/the NSA and whether her thoughts on that were a bit hyperbolic/grandiose?

    JMO.

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  20. #261
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    Anyone besides me kind of disappointed that Taleka did not show up for her flight back to Florida? A little part of me hoped she would somehow show up at the airport..

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    Hello,

    First post, been a long time lurker in the forums, particularly when I get sucked into a case and Google everything, I usually find myself here.

    I have been following Teleka's disappearance because I am from Kalamazoo. Here are a few things I have noticed tossed around and would like to give my 2.

    - I don't think it is abnormal at all that her hood was up. Regardless of how others were, its cold here. Some handle it better than others. I am always bundled and almost always have my hood up when I am in places because I kept myself warm for the walk in- and want to be warm for the walk out.

    - The "cash" she displays, I very much agree looked like pieces of paper, but I doubt a prescription pad, prescriptions, especially at Borgess and Bronson are all computerized. If they don't just call it in, you get a full size piece of paper per prescription. Prescription pads are practically non existent in these hospitals, they are very focused on technology.

    - One thing I have ALWAYS told my husband is what a creepy place Borgess was. The whole set up is eery, its also right next to a big cemetery. I also did notice that in comparison to Bronson, Borgess had little to no security measures. I walked in through the main entrance open 24/7 and had to find someone to direct me to the maternity ward. The parking lots/garages are dark, that area of Kalamazoo honestly makes me slightly uncomfortable. Its right near the line of the area that makes the crime rate so high.

    - I see a lot of confusion with Portage/Porter Indiana, they are right near each other, also, there is an area called Portage that many people refer to as Kalamazoo, either one could have been referenced, either way, they are both directly next to the other.

    - It would not surprise me if it took Teleka just over 2 hours to reach the mileage point she did. I have often gone to exit 16 (which has a big truck stop) and it takes me about 2 hours, sometimes a little more. Usually I stop for gas or something along the way, which she very well may have done, we have no clue.

    -Although I wasn't big on the psychosis ordeal, it is starting to make sense. I know it is strange that she may have hit her peak of crazy into a 2 hour drive, but is it that strange? If she was upset about something, maybe even driving to confront someone, 2 hours is a LONG time to sit and think alone (assuming she was in this scenario), the possibility of hitting a boiling point and snapping is not impossible for anyone if the conditions are right (stress, lack of sleep, depression, etc.)

    I am going to be driving past where Teleka presumably went missing later tonight, its eery, as much as I want to investigate, being a girl on the side of 94 at night is not a good idea.

    Also, one more thing. The fact of the timing between the erratic driver to police responding on the scene just seems like she was gone from the scene WAY too fast. Could someone random have really just popped up in that time frame? Was someone following her? Did she run? I know that if I were to go off of 94 late at night I would be sitting in my car with flashers probably for a LONG while before getting out and searching for help. Also, say she DID have a residency cell phone, why couldn't she have called for help?


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    I have been following these boards for a while. My heart goes out to Teleka's family. I cannot imagine what it must feel like to not know where your loved one is at this time of year. But something has really been troubling me about this case. I have not read that LE has not made a specific statement stating that the ex-husband has been ruled out as a suspect? Don't they usually make such a statement? If anything, just so that people do not think that he had anything to do with it?

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    mrssmith23 Welcome and glad you came out of lurking.

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    FBI's Kidnappings & missing persons list is pretty special. Only 5 from 2013. Many from 10 to 20 years ago. 44 are children (19 or younger). 8 adults missing outside the country. That leaves TP one of nineteen adults on the list.

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    Welcome to Websleuths, jean123, mrssmith23, and all the other new posters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jean123 View Post
    I have been following these boards for a while. My heart goes out to Teleka's family. I cannot imagine what it must feel like to not know where your loved one is at this time of year. But something has really been troubling me about this case. I have not read that LE has not made a specific statement stating that the ex-husband has been ruled out as a suspect? Don't they usually make such a statement? If anything, just so that people do not think that he had anything to do with it?
    They really have given no information about relationships, current or past but I'm sure they are looking into these. I wish we could discuss this further but we can't at this time.

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    The point I was trying to make earlier is the father,mother,sister is in one state Florida,the PI in another state Michigan, and Dr Patrick is probably in Indiana as her car was found there. It makes it harder to find her with everyone spread out in different states.

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    Pensfan, I can't say for certain but if I recall correctly I want to say the date that stands out to me for some reason regarding the tweets I saw was November 20. I could easily be wrong though.
    "Everything is ok in the end, if it's not ok, it's not the end."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingJuicy View Post
    Pensfan, I can't say for certain but if I recall correctly I want to say the date that stands out to me for some reason regarding the tweets I saw was November 20. I could easily be wrong though.
    IIRC, November 25, 2013 was her last (that I could find) indication of an active social media presence.

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  39. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftybatchy View Post


    IIRC, November 25, 2013 was her last (that I could find) indication of an active social media presence.
    Thanks! I knew it was November for sure!
    "Everything is ok in the end, if it's not ok, it's not the end."

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    Does anyone know if the PI has announced any new searches for Dr Patrick in Indiana?

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    MI - Dr. Teleka Patrick, 30, Kalamazoo, 5 Dec 2013 - #2

    Quote Originally Posted by saba View Post
    Stress



    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ka_patric.html



    Teleka Patrick was stressed, agitated but reason why remains mystery, private investigator says

    This article really makes the mental illness possibility is more likely. I have never described someone as "agitated" except for when I rotated on the psych wards. And the PI is wondering about her "state of mind". I could be reading into it but I think she may be suffering from some kind of mental illness but that still doesn't explain how she could just disappear


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by danzn16; 12-25-2013 at 12:06 AM.

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    If the PI went to the hotel and spoke to the clerk, he should know the conversation. Does LE tell people not to speak to PIs like they tell them not to speak to the media... to protect the case? Even if family has hired them to get the needed answers? I have never had contact with a PI so I don't know if they go behind the police and ask the same things, and if this makes LE mad??

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    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/..._to_check.html
    Four searches have been made for Dr Patrick in Indiana. Three searchhes by the state police and one by the family. The result of the searches have been the tracking by the dog of Dr Patrick from where the car was found to the highway. Nothing has been found in a 1 mile radius around the car.

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