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  1. #1
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    Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

    OAKLAND -- The family of Jahi McMath was scrambling Monday to find a facility that will take the brain-dead Oakland girl as a 5 p.m. deadline to remove her from a ventilator approaches.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...-be?source=rss

    Continue discussion here...

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    Last edited by Harmony2; 12-30-2013 at 03:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Jahi McMath is brain dead; hopes for life are futile, experts say

    With the clock winding down on a court order keeping 13-year-old Jahi McMath on a ventilator, medical ethicists say the public drama over the brain-dead girl has fueled a misconception that her condition is somehow treatable.

    Multiple doctors, including a Stanford neurologist, have concluded that Jahi is brain-dead -- the result of complications from having her tonsils removed at Childrenís Hospital & Research Center Oakland early this month. But her parents have fought to keep her on a ventilator, telling reporters they believe "there's still life there."

    Arthur Caplan, director of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center, told CNN last week that the case is "giving the impression that dead people can come back to life."

    That, in turn, has fueled the falsehood that brain death isn't as final as cardiac death.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#ixzz2ozX7rR12
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Softail View Post
    Jahi McMath is brain dead; hopes for life are futile, experts say

    With the clock winding down on a court order keeping 13-year-old Jahi McMath on a ventilator, medical ethicists say the public drama over the brain-dead girl has fueled a misconception that her condition is somehow treatable.

    Multiple doctors, including a Stanford neurologist, have concluded that Jahi is brain-dead -- the result of complications from having her tonsils removed at Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland early this month. But her parents have fought to keep her on a ventilator, telling reporters they believe "there's still life there."

    Arthur Caplan, director of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center, told CNN last week that the case is "giving the impression that dead people can come back to life."

    That, in turn, has fueled the falsehood that brain death isn't as final as cardiac death.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#ixzz2ozX7rR12
    bbm yellow

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/futile
    futile
    : having no result or effect : pointless or useless
    Last edited by Elley Mae; 12-30-2013 at 04:25 PM. Reason: add color


    You don't know what you don't know.

  4. #4
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    Ii was wondering what will happen with the donations already given to the fund the family created when no facility takes Jahi's body? Will they return those funds?
    Don't take yourself so seriously... nobody else does.

  5. #5
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    Whew, what an emotional first thread that was, as well as very informative (so many sleuthers in health care and law, y'all rock my socks!).

    Has there been any information today about the family's attorney filing an appeal? Would he wait until the last minute?

    As far as an autopsy goes, wouldn't there have to be one if the family decides to pursue a lawsuit for malpractice, or anything else, for that matter? That would be one of the biggest pieces of evidence to bring to the table. Although, from what I've read here, with the length of time it's been since she legally died an autopsy may not show why.

    IMO, I really hope that the family lets her pass this afternoon. She, and they, need peace, and the craziness surrounding this case is not exactly peaceful Prolonging the inevitable while the whole country watches and offers its opinions isn't benefiting anyone, especially Jahi.
    Life is an attitude... have a good one :Bananahi:

  6. #6
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    Jahi's attorney, Chris Dolan, had said he may consider filing a federal lawsuit on behalf of the girl's family. But on Monday morning, no such suit had been filed.

    "This is one of the most tragic situations imaginable," Sam Singer, a public relations consultant hired by Children's Hospital, said Monday morning. "A family has long their young daughter. But unfortunately, Jahi is deceased. No amount of hope, prayer or medical procedures will bring her back.
    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...237994871.html

    The hospital spokesman speaks in the video. He looks odd because the audio is not in sync with the lip movements. Maybe it's just me and my computer.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattlechiquita View Post
    Ii was wondering what will happen with the donations already given to the fund the family created when no facility takes Jahi's body? Will they return those funds?
    I think it's impossible to return donations on sites like that. I am not for sure, but I did donate to a cause earlier this month, through the same site, and the person wanted to give back the surplus of donations she had received as she didn't anticipate the amount she got. She had issue figuring out if she could do that, but haven't checked if that had actually transpired.

    If Jahi's family cannot refund, I think it would be best to have a nice funeral for Jahi with a considerate headstone.

    That's what I would do here. That's how I always envisioned this money playing out.
    "Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." - James Dewar

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leilei View Post
    Whew, what an emotional first thread that was, as well as very informative (so many sleuthers in health care and law, y'all rock my socks!).

    Has there been any information today about the family's attorney filing an appeal? Would he wait until the last minute?

    As far as an autopsy goes, wouldn't there have to be one if the family decides to pursue a lawsuit for malpractice, or anything else, for that matter? That would be one of the biggest pieces of evidence to bring to the table. Although, from what I've read here, with the length of time it's been since she legally died an autopsy may not show why.

    IMO, I really hope that the family lets her pass this afternoon. She, and they, need peace, and the craziness surrounding this case is not exactly peaceful Prolonging the inevitable while the whole country watches and offers its opinions isn't benefiting anyone, especially Jahi.

    OMG can they actually do that?
    Don't take yourself so seriously... nobody else does.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherbetjello View Post
    I think it's impossible to return donations on sites like that. I am not for sure, but I did donate to a cause earlier this month, through the same site, and the person wanted to give back the surplus of donations she had received as she didn't anticipate the amount she got. She had issue figuring out if she could do that, but haven't checked if that had actually transpired.

    If Jahi's family cannot refund, I think it would be best to have a nice funeral for Jahi with a considerate headstone.

    That's what I would do here. That's how I always envisioned this money playing out.
    True - they can also donate it to brain research, but something tells me it will not happen.

    They are past their 20K goal now.
    Don't take yourself so seriously... nobody else does.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattlechiquita View Post
    Ii was wondering what will happen with the donations already given to the fund the family created when no facility takes Jahi's body? Will they return those funds?
    Aren't we all wondering? Maybe for funeral expenses?


  11. #11
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    I have nothing scientific to add to this discussion, but I have to say that this is the most bizarre case I have ever heard of. Maybe I have missed some of the facts, but I am wondering what makes this event different from any other death in a hospital. Why does this family think she is any different than any other patient that dies. I really don't get it.

    41 years ago when my oldest son had his tonsils and adenoids removed, I was warned that the surgery was dangerous because a bleeder could break lose and he could bleed to death in a matter of minutes. Even after 3 or 4 days this could happen. If this is what happened I don't know how they can blame the doc.

    If they think there was negligence how will keeping her on a vent correct that? Who is paying for this? Do they have insurance? So many questions. There are so many issues here. jmo
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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  12. #12
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    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/30/he...rl-brain-dead/
    CNN has obtained a copy of a medical report, contained in a court filing, that lays out in extensive detail the testing that supports the hospital's conclusion that McMath has no hope of recovery.
    The report was prepared by Dr. Paul Fisher, Chief of Pediatric Neurology at Stanford University, who was appointed by Alameda Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo to examine the girl and report his findings to the court.
    Fisher found that the girl's pupils were fully dilated and unresponsive to light and that she did not respond to a variety of intense stimuli.
    His report also says McMath showed no sign of breathing on her own when a ventilator was removed: "Patient failed apnea test." While the family has referred to Jahi's heart beating, the report says it is only beating because of the mechanical ventilator.
    In addition, an imaging test showed no blood flow to Jahi's brain, while another showed no sign of electrical activity.
    Fisher's conclusion: "Overall, unfortunate circumstances in 13-year-old with known, irreversible brain injury and now complete absence of cerebral function and complete absence of brainstem function, child
    meets all criteria for brain death, by professional societies and state of California."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattlechiquita View Post
    Ii was wondering what will happen with the donations already given to the fund the family created when no facility takes Jahi's body? Will they return those funds?
    Hopefully they will donate it to a children's charity, in her name. But, I am not sure what the state laws say about what happens to that money, since it was donated for transportation costs.
    Life is an attitude... have a good one :Bananahi:

  14. #14
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    Oh you guys, this is all so freaking sad.
    Don't take yourself so seriously... nobody else does.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaMoon View Post
    After reading all the discussion of the family wanting to find another facility to take Jahi and keep her on life support, I am totally puzzled.

    I can, on some level, deal with the intense belief of the family that Jahi is still with them. However, once they contacted an attorney to represent their case to keep her on life support, the media was continuously blasted with reports, a Facebook page was established to espouse the cause and raise money.

    The family, from the get-go have taken an extremely adversarial position to anything the hospital has done or said. They have refused to allow the hospital to comment on Jahi's case in terms of her medical condition and treatment from the moment she walked in the door. Her doctors cannot ethically discuss why she had the surgery.

    We only know their side of the story, which is fraught with their own emotions and the opinions of their attorney, family members, and a fanatical doctor who does not believe in brain death.

    Even if another institution were to accept a brain dead person for the maintenance she would need to keep breathing, why would they want to? First, there is the ethical component. That's been discussed in depth here. Then, based on the direction the family is going, there are litigious issues as well. It's overly obvious that the family wants to sue the hospital for malpractice. What would stop them from doing the same with another institution willing to take her on? If she were to "die" there, would they be sued for malpractice for their neglect?

    Also, you have to know that the hospital's insurer will probably want to settle the case quietly out of court. It would probably be much less expensive to do that then to go through a circus trial.

    Medical complications do occur after surgery and many times, it leads to death. It's unfortunate fact, it's reality.

    My father died in 1954 at the age of 34. He'd had surgery to repair a hole in his heart. It was very dangerous back in the days before open-heart surgery. He died when he aspirated. There was no lawsuit. My mother knew that the operation was a last-ditch attempt to keep him alive and something bad happened. His surgery had gone just fine, the surgeon did a fantastic job. I'm sure that, since Jahi seemed to be fine immediately after the surgery, everything went fine. Then, something bad happened.

    In this case, there will be litigation against the hospital. There is a good chance it is too late for the ME to determine exactly what happened. Even so, the doctors will not have the chance to defend themselves because the insurance company would prefer to put up the cash rather than to try the case in open court.

    A friend who is a retired pediatrician was sued once by the parents of a child who had died of a condition that was never diagnosed. My friend wanted to fight in court to keep his reputation. He had all the documentation and could show that, in his work-up, he had seen no signs of the condition. The insurance company didn't allow him to do that. They settled, he retired in disgust.

    Sorry for the long post, but this case brings back so many sad memories. But at least we grieved at our loss and eventually moved on with our lives and good memories. We didn't have to add tremendous anger to that pain.
    I think that your experience is the way most people handle situations like this.

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