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  1. #1
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    Canada - Joe Grozelle, 21, RMC student, Kingston, Ont, 22 Oct 2003

    A classic cold case with a possible military cover-up. My cousin was super-close to this guy, and I'd do anything to get his family the justice they deserve. Here are some specs on the case.

    http://www.queensjournal.ca/articlep...21/news/story1

    They originally said he drowned, but no one believes that is the case. They have just started to delve into this further as of the 19th of April.

    "


    GROZELLE INVESTIGATION GOES LONGER
    by Erica Brown.

    The investigation into the disappearance of Joe Grozelle will likely extend into May.

    "We are still plugging along with followups and leads" said Detective Insp. Ian Grant of the Ontario Provincial Police.

    Ontario's deputy chief coroner Dr. Jim Cairns expects to meet with the OPP about the death investigation in early May.

    "That will be a private meeting to discuss how we finish the investigation" he told the CHATHAM DAILY NEWS.

    Grozelle vanished from his RMC dorm room on October 22, 2003.

    His body was found 22 days later near the college in Lake Ontario. {the paper's error}

    The oroginal autopsy listed Grozelle's cause of death as drowning. A second autopsy was conducted after the exhumation of his body from a Ridgetown cemetary late last year.

    Cairns would not comment on the results of the second autopsy.

    "The findings and what they mean are dependent on the autopsies and the police investigation" he said.

    The coroner had originally had expected to wrap up the case in early March.

    "It has taken the police longer to do what they thought was necessary" he explained.

    Cairns said the coroner's part of the investigation is complete at this point. However, he said it could re-opened if the OPP's investigation makes it necessary.

    He won't know that until the May meeting. In February, OPP issued a public appeal to speak to people involved in three separate and unrelated incidents, in hopes they could help solve the mysterious death of the Ridgetown native. "

    Sorry for the lack of the link, couldn't get it to work. But I'd love to hear some theories on whether or not you think if was suicide or murder?
    ~Mekena Sarah Gracie Carmichael~
    2007-2011
    West Elgin's Precious Angel

  2. #2
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    Jun 2004
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    Interesting info out there on the Web

    if you Google "Joe Grozelle"-there are several articles referring to the quickness with which the original autopsy concluded "suicide" AFTER the investigators had already stated it was a suicide. This was given as a reason for not thoroughly examining the body for signs of a struggle. It's hard to believe someone who had passed their required swimming test accidentally drowned UNLESS they were under the influence. Since he was not failing and apparently had no reason to commit suicide, it appears that homicide may very well be involved. I'd sure like to know if water was found in the lungs at the first autopsy and if so if the water was examined for diatoms, etc. Every body of water like a lake, river, etc. has its own specific diatoms present.
    Sure wish I could see a copy of the original autopsy report!


    Bring Maura home!

  3. #3
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    Apr 2005
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    Salem, OR
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    Where was Joe's body really found?


    The passer-by initially who observed the body several hundred feet offshore called Kingston City police, who attended the scene with CFB Kingston Military Police and recovered the body around 8:30 a.m.


    But the description of the location was changed to be near HMCS Cataraqui, that is, close to RMC. This looks more like the Kingston Waterfront park. And Ron Grozelle states that Joe's body was orginally found *south* of La Salle Parkway.

    So where was his body really found?


    RstJ

  4. #4
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    Jun 2004
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    Question Does anyone have any add'l info?

    The last thing I saw was the Joe's father had seen the second autopsy report but couldn't comment on it. Since the report is finished(apparently in late March) what EXACTLY is going on since then? I tried to search the web, buta lot of the info is in French-and the latest English report was March 19!
    Anyone have anything additional?


    Bring Maura home!

  5. #5
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    Jun 2004
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    A little more recent news...

    Just found this info-posting the link. At least it sounds like authorities are trying to be more thorough this time around!

    http://www.rmcclub.ca/eVeritas/2005/Issue017/200517.htm


    Hopefully some definitive answers soon!


    Bring Maura home!

  6. #6
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    Jun 2004
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    Bump...Bump...Bump...

    any more news? There has been precious little since the second autopsy was completed/does anyone(especially in Canada)have any additional info or news? CyberLaw, this would be a good place for you to get constructive...


    Bring Maura home!

  7. #7
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    I sent a PM to coldcasedetective, the reason that I have not been "as constructive" because there is nothing new to report.

    But there was an article published today regarding this case............

    The OPP(Ontario Poovincial Police) just wrapped up their investigation last month and a Coroners Inquest has been scheduled. No date as yet.........

    There has been no public release of that investigation and it was not reported if the cause of death of suicide was affirmed or if the death was deemed accidential.

    But just off the cuff, I really don't know of any Coroners Inquest that has been convened if the cause of death was suicide..........but then again I don't know if the Military College has anything to do with the circumstances surroundng this case or the cause of death.........

    I will post again when the Coroners Inquest is schedule.....no time, date or location has been determined as yet.

    Will keep you informed.........

  8. #8
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    Apr 2006
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    Northern Virginia
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    Update...wonder why the original inquest was halted? Apparently this second inquest ended without any conclusion about cause of death. This is an interesting case, both because it seems that there is a gap in the timeline between when he disappeared and when he died (1-2 weeks!), and also that there are allegations of tampering with evidence on behalf of the Canadian military, specifically his computer.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/stor.../grozelle.html

    RMC cadet death inquest likely on hold until 2007
    Last Updated: Friday, November 17, 2006 | 12:31 PM ET
    CBC News
    Joe Grozelle's father says he is frustrated by delays and a lack of information regarding the coroner's inquest into his son's mysterious disappearance and death three years ago.

    Grozelle, a 21-year-old Royal Military College cadet, disappeared from his Kingston, Ont., dormitory room in October 2003, and his body was found floating in the Cataraqui River three weeks later.

    Joe Grozelle's body was found in the Cataraqui River three weeks after he went missing from his Royal Military College dormitory room.
    The Canadian Press
    Initially, the death was ruled a suicide, but Grozelle's family insisted the cadet would never have taken his own life. They have been waiting three years to learn the real circumstances surrounding Grozelle's death.

    A coroner's inquest into how Grozelle died began last month, but was halted on Oct. 26 by the presiding coroner after only five days of hearings.

    Coroner Dr. David Eden said the inquest would start over with a new jury, and it was anticipated that might happen in as soon as Nov. 20.

    But earlier this week, the coroner's office announced that the inquest would be delayed again.

    Grozelle's father, Ron Grozelle, said his family has not been told when a new date might be.

    "We don't have any definitive answers from the Coroner's office. We're just having to wait like everyone else," he said. "It's terribly frustrating that we're having to go through this process."

    Dr. Benita Porter, an official with the coroner's office, said the delay is because dozens of witnesses and lawyers must be available over a two-month period and five people must be selected to form a new jury.

    "It is not likely at all that will happen before the end of 2006," she said. "And when in 2007 the inquest will begin, we just are not able to say."

    Meanwhile, Ron Grozelle said the family still does not know why the presiding coroner shut down the original inquest.

    At the time, Eden said the jury was "discharged in public interest of a fair hearing."

    Many members of the Grozelle family travelled to Kingston from Southwestern Ontario to attend the original hearings.

  9. #9
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    Bumping...here is the timeline I found on CBC.ca. They did an episode on his case a while back.

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/shadowsofdoubt/timeline.html

  10. #10
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    I can tell you I would NOT be suprized at all if there was a military cover-up involved. I have an older cousin that was in the Marines, and died while on duty. For years the military told the family that Butch accidently shot himself while cleaning his gun, but our family never believed it. A good friend that had been stationed with Butch told the family years later that he infact did not shoot himself, but would not say anything further except the family needed to ask to see the official reports. I am not too familiar with what my great aunt and my aunt had to go through to see the reports (they never when into to that part in detail) but when they were finally able to see it, they found out that Butch had actually been coming to the defence of a Commissioned Officer's wife whose husband was beating her severely. The CO shot Butch because he tried to intervene. The incident was explained away as 'accidental' to cover for the CO.
    God Grant me the serenity to accept those things which I cannot change, the strength to change those things which I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    There comes a point in your life when you realize who matters, who never did, who won't anymore, and who always will. So don't worry about people from your past; there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future.


  11. #11
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  12. #12
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    FWIW, i highly doubt they would hold an inquest if they really believed it was a suicide.

    In reading the jury's recommendations, #8 is interesting

    We recommend all investigative agencies (federal, provincial and municipal) review or develop, and educate investigators on best practices regarding computer and other data storage hardware, which may be used as evidence in an investigation
    Something tells me that computer files were "missing".
    Last edited by sillybilly; 03-02-2010 at 02:21 AM.

  13. #13
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    definately suspicious
    feel bad for his parents

  14. #14
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    For those of you who may be checking into Joe's thread, please visit the thread on Lachlan Cranswick, the scientist who is missing from Deep River, Ontario. We are discussing an interesting coincidence of the Grozelle surname in relation to Lachlan and the ex-Colonel Russ Williams who is charged with the murders of Jessica Lloyd and Marie-France Comeau and 2 home invasions:

    Starting at post #161 on Pg 7:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=95134&page=7

  15. #15
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    How could one ever conclude "suicide" for this case??? It's beyond me...Sounds like they couldn't figure it out so they made something up. I have read extensively about Joe's case and his disappearance and there is not a shred of information that is publicly available to lead one to deduct such a conclusion. To his family, my condolences. It is my hope that information that has very recently come to light will assist them in better understanding the circumstances around their beloved son's demise!

    This case makes me so angry. What on earth was everyone doing - apart from protecting "turf"!???

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