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  1. #1
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    A new thought

    I read something on another forum that made something click in my head, and I want to run it by you.

    What I read was on the following link: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...d.php?t=10158:

    In his book, Kolar lays out the "organized" vs "disorganized" elements of this crime scene. It got me to thinking about that. I believe it's very likely the head blow was from a disorganized, blitz attack, and the strangulation, staging, and ransom note were organized.

    So, here is my thought: While I am still very much RDI, I am confused by the combination of the head bash and the strangulation. Either one would be understandable to me, but both of them together confound me. Why do they confound me? Because they do not appear to go together and because I have always assumed that the same person did them both.

    But that link above got me thinking, what if two different people, with two very different personalities, did them? What if one person did the head bash, and then another person did the strangulation? To me, that fits much better than thinking the same person did both the head bash and the strangulation.

    Now my intuition tells me that the person who did the head bash was either BR or PR, and the person who did the strangulation was JR. I have never really understood the strangulation, but here is my thought: Suppose JR is made aware of the head bash sometime after it happens. He assesses the situation and realizes that the head injury so severe that nothing can be done to save JB. She is not dead yet but she might as well be. He also assesses that one of his other family members (PR or BR) is going to be in serious legal trouble over this unless he does something to divert suspicion away from the family. But back to the strangulation: I can see JR coldly and efficiently dispatching JBR by strangling her to death once he realized the seriousness of the head wound. Perhaps he wanted to put her out of her misery and thought this was the quickest way of doing it. But his other motivation was to do whatever it took to protect the other family member(s). He was willing to do whatever had to be done to do that.

    So to summarize, either PR or BR inflicts the near fatal head wound, and then JR finishes off the damage by strangulation and also directs the staging and cover-up afterwards. To me this makes sense. Can you see this? Does it make sense to you?

  2. #2
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    I absolutely believe the head bash and strangulation were two different individuals, and your last sentence is precisely what I believe. I lean toward BR for the first part, but am not decided completely.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I read something on another forum that made something click in my head, and I want to run it by you.

    What I read was on the following link: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...d.php?t=10158:

    In his book, Kolar lays out the "organized" vs "disorganized" elements of this crime scene. It got me to thinking about that. I believe it's very likely the head blow was from a disorganized, blitz attack, and the strangulation, staging, and ransom note were organized.

    So, here is my thought: While I am still very much RDI, I am confused by the combination of the head bash and the strangulation. Either one would be understandable to me, but both of them together confound me. Why do they confound me? Because they do not appear to go together and because I have always assumed that the same person did them both.

    But that link above got me thinking, what if two different people, with two very different personalities, did them? What if one person did the head bash, and then another person did the strangulation? To me, that fits much better than thinking the same person did both the head bash and the strangulation.

    Now my intuition tells me that the person who did the head bash was either BR or PR, and the person who did the strangulation was JR. I have never really understood the strangulation, but here is my thought: Suppose JR is made aware of the head bash sometime after it happens. He assesses the situation and realizes that the head injury so severe that nothing can be done to save JB. She is not dead yet but she might as well be. He also assesses that one of his other family members (PR or BR) is going to be in serious legal trouble over this unless he does something to divert suspicion away from the family. But back to the strangulation: I can see JR coldly and efficiently dispatching JBR by strangling her to death once he realized the seriousness of the head wound. Perhaps he wanted to put her out of her misery and thought this was the quickest way of doing it. But his other motivation was to do whatever it took to protect the other family member(s). He was willing to do whatever had to be done to do that.

    So to summarize, either PR or BR inflicts the near fatal head wound, and then JR finishes off the damage by strangulation and also directs the staging and cover-up afterwards. To me this makes sense. Can you see this? Does it make sense to you?
    ITA. I've always felt they were done by different people. In my theory, PR does the head bash & JR the strangulation.

    A little off topic, but the only part I partially disagree with is that JR was protecting a family member. Yes, I think he was protecting PR in a way, but mostly he was protecting himself. I believe the head bash came as the result of PR's rage and jealousy over JR's sexual attraction and activity with JB. If that's true, JR was CYA. He couldn't have the abuse discovered, at least not THAT way. I think he knew it would be discovered one way or the other, but in his mind it was far better to try and blame the sexual abuse on an intruder rather than have the hospital discover it, report it, and he would almost surely be arrested for it. If he had no reason to fear the abuse discovery, he might have called 911. Of course, in that scenario, the head bash wouldn't have happened at all (in my theory). I truly believe he murdered his daughter in cold blood to save his own backside.

    The only other reason I could see him covering for PR or BR would be because of how it affected HIM. It would shed a bad light on HIM. It would damage HIS reputation in business, and the community. It would make HIM look bad for being married to/fathering a murderer.

    IMO, ice water runs through that man's veins. I don't believe he's capable of having genuine love and concern for any other human being but himself, even Beth. I think his grief over her death stemmed from the loss of HIS first victim, HIS possession. It's all about JR. The All JR Show, on the All JR Channel, on All the time.

    All JMO.
    **MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE COPIED OR LINKED TO IN ANY OTHER FORUMS OR WEBSITES!!**

  4. #4
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    Also the FBI..."look to the parents" and "two hands". I must defer to their early opinion, especially now that we know AH stifled the GJ vote on top of backing out of going to Quantico to meet with Feds for further case review and also refusing to call them in for additional assistance knowing they were on standby. AH was all about keeping both of the Rs away from scrutiny.
    We want the truth, but can we handle the truth?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nom de plume View Post
    ITA. I've always felt they were done by different people. In my theory, PR does the head bash & JR the strangulation.

    A little off topic, but the only part I partially disagree with is that JR was protecting a family member. Yes, I think he was protecting PR in a way, but mostly he was protecting himself. I believe the head bash came as the result of PR's rage and jealousy over JR's sexual attraction and activity with JB. If that's true, JR was CYA. He couldn't have the abuse discovered, at least not THAT way. I think he knew it would be discovered one way or the other, but in his mind it was far better to try and blame the sexual abuse on an intruder rather than have the hospital discover it, report it, and he would almost surely be arrested for it. If he had no reason to fear the abuse discovery, he might have called 911. Of course, in that scenario, the head bash wouldn't have happened at all (in my theory). I truly believe he murdered his daughter in cold blood to save his own backside.

    The only other reason I could see him covering for PR or BR would be because of how it affected HIM. It would shed a bad light on HIM. It would damage HIS reputation in business, and the community. It would make HIM look bad for being married to/fathering a murderer.

    IMO, ice water runs through that man's veins. I don't believe he's capable of having genuine love and concern for any other human being but himself, even Beth. I think his grief over her death stemmed from the loss of HIS first victim, HIS possession. It's all about JR. The All JR Show, on the All JR Channel, on All the time.

    All JMO.
    The All JR Show, on the All JR Channel, on All the time.


    One difficult issue, imo, in analyzing the staging and the intent of the perpetrator(s) is that we do not know for a certainty what personality disorders existed and how it affected their choices. While I’m fully on board with the numerous conclusions of posters who’ve connected narcissism with JR (there’s an excellent thread on FFJ about this), the presentation of that personality disorder can be confusing. For example, there’s enormous evidence of the narcissist’s inclination for lying and manipulation in order to present themselves to others in the way that benefits themselves. But that’s a partial explanation for the lies.

    Here’s a quote describing what I’m trying to convey: Les Carter in his book, Why Is It Always About You?: The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism writes (p 17):

    "In a sense, narcissists are out of touch with reality. They are not mentally ill, like a psychotic; they are just unwilling to acknowledge truth that doesn't match their preferences. While normal people can weigh events rationally and draw fair conclusions about themselves, narcissists do not. They lack the objectivity to live with reasonable insight because their need for self exaltation does not allow them to accept that their perceptions might not be the ultimate truth."

    If, for example, JR says, well we thought the head strike killed her, is that what he believed because he later heard it from someone who said the hit killed her? Is he believing it because they could not revive her - a phone call to a close doctor friend in the middle of the night? Or does he just believe it impossible that he (and/or PR) may have unintentionally or intentionally ended their daughter’s life? (A second thought with this, does the musing of JR also lead away from the idea that a BR wrapped ligature accidentally strangled JB or put her into a coma from a vagus nerve injury? IDK. And why are there PR’s jacket fibers in the knot of the neck ligature if JR was the one who pulled the cord? Did JR ask PR to fetch a cord to stage a horrible scene? Unknown.) Yet . . .

    Whatever one’s theory, what JR is leaving out of the narrative is that he and, imo, PR, decided to stage this homicide, hiding the connection to their family and not calling for help for JB, whether she was really deceased when they found her or not. Neither PR or JR made that call. Since I’m featuring JR in this post, that has to be telling that JR interprets this situation and he acts according to how it will benefit himself. The behavior of a narcissist.

    Reminder about the sequence of lawyering:
    1st – a lawyer for JR
    2nd – a lawyer for PR
    And then as the Bonita Papers state: “Eventually a lawyer for BR”

    All of this, as always, jmho.

  6. #6
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    Personally for me, the photos of the garrote and how it is tightly and neatly tied around the handle of the paintbrush strike me as being done by someone that understands knots, rope, and is strong. I don't see PR or BR being that person but from all accounts JR fits the bill.


    Posted comments are my personal opinion only and have been derived as a result of reviewing information publicly available to all.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by questfortrue View Post
    <snip> While I’m fully on board with the numerous conclusions of posters who’ve connected narcissism with JR (there’s an excellent thread on FFJ about this), <snip>
    Slightly off topic. Does anyone know how to register for an account at ffj? I just tried and it says registration is closed at the moment. ???
    Thanks in advance.
    The above mentioned text and views are my opinion and mine alone.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by questfortrue View Post
    The All JR Show, on the All JR Channel, on All the time.


    One difficult issue, imo, in analyzing the staging and the intent of the perpetrator(s) is that we do not know for a certainty what personality disorders existed and how it affected their choices. While I’m fully on board with the numerous conclusions of posters who’ve connected narcissism with JR (there’s an excellent thread on FFJ about this), the presentation of that personality disorder can be confusing. For example, there’s enormous evidence of the narcissist’s inclination for lying and manipulation in order to present themselves to others in the way that benefits themselves. But that’s a partial explanation for the lies.

    Here’s a quote describing what I’m trying to convey: Les Carter in his book, Why Is It Always About You?: The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism writes (p 17):

    "In a sense, narcissists are out of touch with reality. They are not mentally ill, like a psychotic; they are just unwilling to acknowledge truth that doesn't match their preferences. While normal people can weigh events rationally and draw fair conclusions about themselves, narcissists do not. They lack the objectivity to live with reasonable insight because their need for self exaltation does not allow them to accept that their perceptions might not be the ultimate truth."

    If, for example, JR says, well we thought the head strike killed her, is that what he believed because he later heard it from someone who said the hit killed her? Is he believing it because they could not revive her - a phone call to a close doctor friend in the middle of the night? Or does he just believe it impossible that he (and/or PR) may have unintentionally or intentionally ended their daughter’s life? (A second thought with this, does the musing of JR also lead away from the idea that a BR wrapped ligature accidentally strangled JB or put her into a coma from a vagus nerve injury? IDK. And why are there PR’s jacket fibers in the knot of the neck ligature if JR was the one who pulled the cord? Did JR ask PR to fetch a cord to stage a horrible scene? Unknown.) Yet . . .

    Whatever one’s theory, what JR is leaving out of the narrative is that he and, imo, PR, decided to stage this homicide, hiding the connection to their family and not calling for help for JB, whether she was really deceased when they found her or not. Neither PR or JR made that call. Since I’m featuring JR in this post, that has to be telling that JR interprets this situation and he acts according to how it will benefit himself. The behavior of a narcissist.

    Reminder about the sequence of lawyering:
    1st – a lawyer for JR
    2nd – a lawyer for PR
    And then as the Bonita Papers state: “Eventually a lawyer for BR”

    All of this, as always, jmho.
    Thanks for this thoughtful response.

    While I don't know the exact circumstances of the crime, my thought is that JR did not kill JB strictly for himself. My thought is that, at least in his own mind, he killed JB to put her out of her misery and also to protect another family member who inflicted the head bash. In that sense he was not doing it for himself but for others. He was acting in a purely logical way, but not a moral, lawful way, if that makes sense. He believed, in his own way, that he was doing the right thing by taking the actions that he did. That is the way I read JR, not as a narcissist but as a misguided, coldly intelligent person who used logic to react to the horrible situation he was faced with instead of emotion/panic.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZBob View Post
    Personally for me, the photos of the garrote and how it is tightly and neatly tied around the handle of the paintbrush strike me as being done by someone that understands knots, rope, and is strong. I don't see PR or BR being that person but from all accounts JR fits the bill.
    I agree 100% with that assessment. Many posters who have said PR did the strangulation completely misunderstand PR IMO. She was not the deranged psychopath who would do that. She couldn't even bring herself to come out of the sitting room to see her dead daughter again when JR brought her upstairs, and people actually think she could strangle her daughter to death? No way. Likewise with BR. To say he inflicted the strangulation is a complete misread of BR. He may have had issues, but he was not the sibling murdering psychopath who strangled his sister to death to get rid of her and eliminate his competition. IMO that strangulation was done by an adult who knew exactly what they were doing (and why they were doing it) and did it coldly and efficiently, operating under logic and not emotion. Again, it all points to JR.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    Slightly off topic. Does anyone know how to register for an account at ffj? I just tried and it says registration is closed at the moment. ???
    Thanks in advance.
    FFJ is not accepting any new registrations. Not enough mods to handle newbies.
    ​Blessed are they with nothing to say and the wisdom not to say it.

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba - never forget.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    FFJ is not accepting any new registrations. Not enough mods to handle newbies.
    Thanks.
    The above mentioned text and views are my opinion and mine alone.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    Thanks.
    You're not really a newbie, though. You've been HERE for a while. Try a PM to one of the mods.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  13. #13
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    I've never posted but have lurked about for a while and have read several books. I think this is spot on; I've always believed that the way in which any perpetrator hurts someone is linked to their personality. I do believe the head wound and strangulation were caused by two different people, the strangulation being part of the cover-up.

    One thing has always got me though; I do think RDI BUT I have always felt adamant that a parent would only cover up something this serious for their child, NOT for the spouse. This leads to me believe that there was some accident between jonbenet and BR, the head bash, which initiated the terrible sequence of events. Just some of my thoughts.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jal1128 View Post
    I've never posted but have lurked about for a while and have read several books. I think this is spot on; I've always believed that the way in which any perpetrator hurts someone is linked to their personality. I do believe the head wound and strangulation were caused by two different people, the strangulation being part of the cover-up.

    One thing has always got me though; I do think RDI BUT I have always felt adamant that a parent would only cover up something this serious for their child, NOT for the spouse. This leads to me believe that there was some accident between jonbenet and BR, the head bash, which initiated the terrible sequence of events. Just some of my thoughts.
    I don't know who inflicted the head wound or why but the two suspects are PR and BR. As for what you said, I believe JR would absolutely cover up for PR. She was his wife. She had cancer. He loved and empathized with her. He did not want her go to prison. He would stage and help her stage to avoid that. Absolutely.

    Edit to add: I do not see the strangulation as staging. The garrote maybe but not the actual strangulation that ended JB's life. No parent could be so cold-blooded as to do that. The motivation for the strangulation was not staging. I think it was to end JB's suffering and to protect the inflictor of the head bash. But whatever the motivation, this makes JR guilty of first degree murder.

  15. #15
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    Something that just popped into my head, I always felt that JR woke up that morning to PR and just kind of stepped in the mess, I got that feeling mostly from Steve Thomas' book. I thought that PR had come upon jonbenet and BR that night, after an accident or whatever caused the head wound, and did the staging, and woke JR when the 911 call was placed, when she felt her staging was finished with. But I don't see PR doing the garrotte. I wonder if JR woke up, realized what the situation was, added the garrotte thinking PR didn't do enough to cover up, and then everything went from there.

    I just can't see PR or JR covering for each other after all these years. I can only see them covering for a child. But, I can see JR waking up to a dead jonbenet, panicking with PR screaming all sorts of things about what may have happened, JR helping the staging before he fully realized what had happened (maybe PR killed jonbenet in a fit of rage, would JR have helped staged if he had realized that?) and then after being locked into lying all these years with PR because of the fact that he DID help in staging that morning in the panic. Who knows! Most likely no one ever will.

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