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  1. #1
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    JonBenet sitting up front with John and Judith having to squeeze in the back seat

    I am trying to remember what book this is from.
    Ive read alot of books on the JonBenet case and as I read them I always take notes of different things that stand out in the case.
    Yesterday i was looking through my notes and found a page from years ago that stood out to me.
    At the top it said:
    Page 198
    (In the fall of another year, Judith had dropped by Patsy's house at 7:30 one morning to measure a wall for several of Judith's photographs, which Patsy intended to hang. She had walked a few blocks from the house and although the weather was cool John Ramsey asked Judith if he could drop her off at home on his way to take JonBenet to school. Judith accepted John's offer, he was driving a small Jeep which had only 2 doors and a tiny back seat. Assuming JonBenet would get in the back, Judith waited on her but JonBenet had no intention of sitting anywhere but upfront next to her father. Judith couldnt believe what she was seeing. She stood and stared at John and JonBenet for a moment. Neither of them moved, they just sat there looking at the waiting woman. Until this day Judith has never forgotten how she had to squeeze pass JonBenet to get in the small back seat)
    My question is: What book is this from? And did this really happen?
    If it did, John being the adult or rather ANY adult would have told their child to get in the back seat right away so the other adult could sit up front.
    That had to be embarrasing for Judith to stand there and watch a child look at her as if she were the child that belonged in the back seat.
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
    I am trying to remember what book this is from.
    Ive read alot of books on the JonBenet case and as I read them I always take notes of different things that stand out in the case.
    Yesterday i was looking through my notes and found a page from years ago that stood out to me.
    At the top it said:
    Page 198
    (In the fall of another year, Judith had dropped by Patsy's house at 7:30 one morning to measure a wall for several of Judith's photographs, which Patsy intended to hang. She had walked a few blocks from the house and although the weather was cool John Ramsey asked Judith if he could drop her off at home on his way to take JonBenet to school. Judith accepted John's offer, he was driving a small Jeep which had only 2 doors and a tiny back seat. Assuming JonBenet would get in the back, Judith waited on her but JonBenet had no intention of sitting anywhere but upfront next to her father. Judith couldnt believe what she was seeing. She stood and stared at John and JonBenet for a moment. Neither of them moved, they just sat there looking at the waiting woman. Until this day Judith has never forgotten how she had to squeeze pass JonBenet to get in the small back seat)
    My question is: What book is this from? And did this really happen?
    If it did, John being the adult or rather ANY adult would have told their child to get in the back seat right away so the other adult could sit up front.
    That had to be embarrasing for Judith to stand there and watch a child look at her as if she were the child that belonged in the back seat.
    If this happened, it is very odd. I think any parent in that situation who had a guest riding in their jeep would ask their young daughter to sit in the back. To me it possibly reveals something about a secret relationship between JR and JB that they only shared in private (by in private, I mean absent PR). JR appeared to be treating JB not as a child but as an adult, and not just as his daughter but as someone he preferred above Judith. I would not expect JB to know better, being so young, but JR definitely.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    If this happened, it is very odd. I think any parent in that situation who had a guest riding in their jeep would ask their young daughter to sit in the back. To me it possibly reveals something about a secret relationship between JR and JB that they only shared in private (by in private, I mean absent PR). JR appeared to be treating JB not as a child but as an adult, and not just as his daughter but as someone he preferred above Judith. I would not expect JB to know better, being so young, but JR definitely.
    If it is even true. Before we analyze things, we should make sure they are true and founded first.

    And even then, It sounds to me more like a woman who felt she was entitled to something she was not. He offered her a ride, She could have said no, Or you climb in the back and go.

    This to me is a nonstarter.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  4. #4
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    If anything it was very unsafe. JB would have been 5 or 6 years old, she should have been in the backseat and with a booster seat. JMO
    The above mentioned text and views are my opinion and mine alone.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    If it is even true. Before we analyze things, we should make sure they are true and founded first.

    And even then, It sounds to me more like a woman who felt she was entitled to something she was not. He offered her a ride, She could have said no, Or you climb in the back and go.

    This to me is a nonstarter.
    That's kind of mean...imo

    Apparently the op thought it was a "starter". If you don't want to contribute then don't...

    but don't dis...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    If anything it was very unsafe. JB would have been 5 or 6 years old, she should have been in the backseat and with a booster seat. JMO
    In 1995 this was not a law nor probably the norm. Car seat safety had grown immensely but at that point there were not front air bags.
    If this was a Jeep wrangler as she is describing. they did not put airbags in them until 1997 and then I am still not sure it was standard.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  7. #7
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    I don't care how you try to spin it- this is not normal- or polite. Give me a break. You don't make a grown woman- friend, employee, family member whatever sit in a small back seat and a child in the front, and certainly not a man with southern inclinations. I was raised in laid back California and wouldn't even consider it. I know better and I was raised well after John Ramsey and the generation he was raised in held manners way above my own!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frigga View Post
    I don't care how you try to spin it- this is not normal- or polite. Give me a break. You don't make a grown woman- friend, employee, family member whatever sit in a small back seat and a child in the front, and certainly not a man with southern inclinations. I was raised in laid back California and wouldn't even consider it. I know better and I was raised well after John Ramsey and the generation he was raised in held manners way above my own!
    Which is another reason I don't believe it. There is so much that people just post and it becomes fact. To consider this it has to be proven to be true.

    Right now it just seems as something that would rile people but has no proof and no provenance.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    In 1995 this was not a law nor probably the norm. Car seat safety had grown immensely but at that point there were not front air bags.
    If this was a Jeep wrangler as she is describing. they did not put airbags in them until 1997 and then I am still not sure it was standard.
    Early 1980s: Studies showed that CRS use in certain states is higher after CPS laws are
    introduced. More states pass child passenger safety laws.

    1984: Decision of NHTSA pushes states to adopt safety belt laws that will cover adults and
    children over the age covered by the child passenger safety laws. Same decision requires
    installation of air bags if sufficiently strict laws are not adopted by a majority of states by
    1990

    1985: Final state passes child passenger safety law. All states plus District of Columbia and
    Puerto Rico have requirements, but many have limitations, such as applying only to
    parents or guardians or allowing lap belt use as an alternative for very young children.
    All are primary laws (allowing police to stop a vehicle for the violation).


    1993: Passenger air bags begin to be installed in increasing numbers of vehicles. April: First
    child killed by passenger air bag; a 6 years old riding unbelted.

    1996: January: NHTSA and National Safety Council rally support for major campaign to alert
    vehicle users about hazard of passenger air bags to infants and children and to upgrade
    safety belt laws and enforcement.
    The above mentioned text and views are my opinion and mine alone.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    Early 1980s: Studies showed that CRS use in certain states is higher after CPS laws are
    introduced. More states pass child passenger safety laws.

    1984: Decision of NHTSA pushes states to adopt safety belt laws that will cover adults and
    children over the age covered by the child passenger safety laws. Same decision requires
    installation of air bags if sufficiently strict laws are not adopted by a majority of states by
    1990

    1985: Final state passes child passenger safety law. All states plus District of Columbia and
    Puerto Rico have requirements, but many have limitations, such as applying only to
    parents or guardians or allowing lap belt use as an alternative for very young children.
    All are primary laws (allowing police to stop a vehicle for the violation).


    1993: Passenger air bags begin to be installed in increasing numbers of vehicles. April: First
    child killed by passenger air bag; a 6 years old riding unbelted.

    1996: January: NHTSA and National Safety Council rally support for major campaign to alert
    vehicle users about hazard of passenger air bags to infants and children and to upgrade
    safety belt laws and enforcement.

    However none of this has any bearing on this case. Airbags were not installed on passenger front sides in this vehicle until 1997.

    It was not illegal for a child to sit in the front of the car. Many people today in spite of all the education and information still stick their kids in the front seat and drive them without seat belts.

    In 1994-6 it was more the norm.

    And again, this is not really the issue. IS this even true? That is the issue. Not the interpretation of the maybe and could have beens. Until this there is proof, This is rumor.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.


  11. #11
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    I agree we don't know that it's true, but if it is true it is not a question of safety but a question of common decency and politeness and respect that a female adult guest who was riding in the jeep would be offered the large, adult-sized front seat and not the tiny back seat not appropriate for an adult but appropriate for a child. Any adult male in that situation with any common decency would do that and if this did happen it would be significant.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyhoo View Post
    I agree we don't know that it's true, but if it is true it is not a question of safety but a question of common decency and politeness and respect that a female adult guest who was riding in the jeep would be offered the large, adult-sized front seat and not the tiny back seat not appropriate for an adult but appropriate for a child. Any adult male in that situation with any common decency would do that and if this did happen it would be significant.
    How can we even debate a point that is not even proven to be true. AT most it says that JBR liked to ride up front and was used to it. She was just hopping in and out, so I don't see the big deal really.. Not proof of anything malicious or tawdry.

    Just maybe bad manners?? And that is not proof of murder.
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  13. #13
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    I never stated it as true. I stated "If anything" meaning even if it is indeed true, it's not safe. It's my opinion that it wasn't safe. That was my first thought before making a grown up sit in a small backseat of a jeep. An old friend of mine had a wrangler, she went off the road and rolled it. Everytime we would be out and she'd see a wrangler, she would say to me how unsafe they are and that it bothered her to see kids in them after her backseat ended up being thrown out of the jeep and in a field.
    It was 1996, not in the 60's, child safety was known in regard to cars and seat belts.

    I kept my opinion to myself about the fact that (IF this is a true story) it's disrespectful to make a grown up scrunch into a tiny backseat. But it's incomprehensible to me that anyone would not find this unsafe in the slightest.

    I'd better just scroll and roll.

    JMO
    The above mentioned text and views are my opinion and mine alone.

  14. #14
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    In 1995 this was not a law nor probably the norm. Car seat safety had grown immensely but at that point there were not front air bags.
    If this was a Jeep wrangler as she is describing. they did not put airbags in them until 1997 and then I am still not sure it was standard.
    But it was commonly known then not to let children ride in the front. I remember thereabouts not being allowed to ride in the front, and neither were my friends, regardless of whether the cars had airbags or not. I was born in 1985, and I remember not being allowed to sit in the front seat until I was eleven or twelve, and that was the same rule for all of my friends.

    Like others have said, it wasn't the sixties. There was a lot of common knowledge about keeping your kids safe when riding in the car in the nineties. It wasn't common at all to let a small child ride in the front seat.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  15. #15
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    Nov 2013
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    The story was posted at FFJ by Judith Philips herself:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...?t=6429&page=3

    It's post #26. Thank you, Shanny, for bringing this to our attention.

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