Burke

capps · May 10, 2005

I've been thinking about Burke lately. He's getting older now, I believe he's 18 now.

No matter what happened on Dec.25/26,it has to have deep lasting effects on him.

If he is guilty - even though he could not be charged,who could live with that?

If he isn't guilty - he knows some secrets that is too much to bare,who can live with that?

Either way the kid is screwed ...
Do you think he is/will be in therapy for life?

Can't help but feel sorry for him.

Pocono Sleuther · May 10, 2005

I'd say he's in therapy for life no matter what he knows. I seriously hope someone from that family breaks their silence. I'm praying Burke can bring justice for JonBenet. I'm not convinced he murdered her, but I do feel he knows who did...at the very least. I just find it incredibly sad. JBR may never get justice if he doesn't speak.

PS...mourning the loss of Kenny on the single train.

capps · May 12, 2005

Let's get back to Burke for a moment ...

When Burke was sent to stay with the Ramsey friends on Dec 26,he left with his N64.It was cold out,so I'm assuming he wore a jacket.Was this a bulky jacket? Could this jacket maybe hide a ... oh I dunno ... roll of duck tape,roll of cord ... I think you know where I'm going with this ...

Is this a crazy thought?

tipper · May 12, 2005

capps said:
I've been thinking about Burke lately. He's getting older now, I believe he's 18 now.

No matter what happened on Dec.25/26,it has to have deep lasting effects on him.

If he is guilty - even though he could not be charged,who could live with that?

If he isn't guilty - he knows some secrets that is too much to bare,who can live with that?

Either way the kid is screwed ...
Do you think he is/will be in therapy for life?

Can't help but feel sorry for him.

You left out the possibility someone unknown to either his parents or himself came in and killed his sister.

I don't think he's necessarily screwed or will be in therapy for life any more than Martha Moxley's brother was.

capps · May 12, 2005

One big difference though ....
Martha Moxley's parents weren't prime suspects and suspiciously being evasive and covering up.

tipper · May 12, 2005

capps said:
One big difference though ....
Martha Moxley's parents weren't prime suspects and suspiciously being evasive and covering up.

I'll bet they would have been in Boulder...

luvbeaches · May 12, 2005

capps said:
One big difference though ....
Martha Moxley's parents weren't prime suspects and suspiciously being evasive and covering up.

Exactly. Did the Moxley's laywer-up and lawyer-up all their relatives? Nope. I think Burke's going to talk one of these days. Soon enough, he'll be off to college, and I would guess frat life. All it's going to take is a party and some booze, and I think poor Burke is going to talk. I feel so sorry for him.

luvbeaches · May 12, 2005

tipper said:
I'll bet they would have been in Boulder...

Nevermind...no use arguing. Until Patsy confesses on her death bed, some will never believe her...and even then, some still won't believe it.

narlacat · May 12, 2005

tipper said:
You left out the possibility someone unknown to either his parents or himself came in and killed his sister.

I don't think he's necessarily screwed or will be in therapy for life any more than Martha Moxley's brother was.

I dont know anything about Martha Moxley's brother, but I think Burke is going to be one troubled person his whole life, whether or not he chooses to seek therapy. Regardless of whether or not he was directly involved in Jonbenet's death, he is still going to bear the scars of what happened to his little sister his whole life. More than 1/2 of his life he has had to deal with what happened there that night and the aftermath.
I wonder if he gets online and visits these forums or if he has ever looked at the autopsy photo's...you cant help but wonder.

capps · May 12, 2005

tipper said:
I'll bet they would have been in Boulder...

I'm not sure I'm understanding your statement? Can you briefly elaborate please?

tipper · May 12, 2005

Martha Moxley was killed on her lawn. Her mother was home alone when it happened. Martha and her mother had argued earlier in the week. Based on how quickly BPD made up their minds about the Ramseys, I think they might just as easily have jumped for Dorthy Moxley as the killer of Martha.

The Greenwich PD didn't have trouble going to the Moxley's house to interview the parents and whatever suspicions they might have harboured early on re the parents they always treated them kindly and respectfully. Perhaps if BPD had treated the Ramseys the same way they wouldn't have had the problem they did have. I suspect if the Moxleys had been treated as the Ramseys were you'd have had similar behavior from them.

capps · May 13, 2005

tipper said:
Martha Moxley was killed on her lawn. Her mother was home alone when it happened. Martha and her mother had argued earlier in the week. Based on how quickly BPD made up their minds about the Ramseys, I think they might just as easily have jumped for Dorthy Moxley as the killer of Martha.

The Greenwich PD didn't have trouble going to the Moxley's house to interview the parents and whatever suspicions they might have harboured early on re the parents they always treated them kindly and respectfully. Perhaps if BPD had treated the Ramseys the same way they wouldn't have had the problem they did have. I suspect if the Moxleys had been treated as the Ramseys were you'd have had similar behavior from them.

The BPD didn't treat the Ramsey's kindly??
If you remember,the BPD let them do whatever they pleased when they first came to the house. They were allowed to walk around,let all their friends and the preacher stay,why ... they even told JR,"why don't you look around to see if there's any thing that looks suspicious." (Big mistake). Why those mean 'ole police!!!!

Believe me ... if the only problem the BPD had with the Ramsey's is that Patsy had an argument with JB in the beginnig of the week ... the Ramsey's would no be in the mess they're in right now.

tipper · May 13, 2005

You're leaving out the heavy-handed way they interviewed JAR and Melinda, the intimating to reporters from day 1 that no intruders were involved, threatening to refuse to release her body etc, etc, etc.

capps · May 14, 2005

tipper said:
You're leaving out the heavy-handed way they interviewed JAR and Melinda, the intimating to reporters from day 1 that no intruders were involved, threatening to refuse to release her body etc, etc, etc.

Tipper,

I'm not disputing that the BPD didn't always use the right approach, refusing to release JB's body was not a good tactic. But,the reason for these tactics (albeit not always the correct ones),were started only because the Ramsey's were almost immediately hiding behind their lawyers and refusing to give any more interviews to the authorities. That makes one suspicious.Remember,as per my pior post, it did not start out that way. That's the difference between this case and the Moxley case.

I know JAR and Melinda were questioned,but I'm not aware of any heavy handedness,can you give me a source for that?

Toltec · May 14, 2005

tipper said:
Martha Moxley was killed on her lawn. Her mother was home alone when it happened. Martha and her mother had argued earlier in the week. Based on how quickly BPD made up their minds about the Ramseys, I think they might just as easily have jumped for Dorthy Moxley as the killer of Martha.

The Greenwich PD didn't have trouble going to the Moxley's house to interview the parents and whatever suspicions they might have harboured early on re the parents they always treated them kindly and respectfully. Perhaps if BPD had treated the Ramseys the same way they wouldn't have had the problem they did have. I suspect if the Moxleys had been treated as the Ramseys were you'd have had similar behavior from them.

The BPD had trouble going to the Fernie home to interview the Ramseys and whatever suspicions they might have harboured early on re the parents they always treated them kindly and respectuflly.

John told the BPD....give us a day. The next day he was all lawyered up and the BPD didn't have a chance in Hades!

K777angel · May 14, 2005

This is what John Ramsey said in the Jan. 1, 1997 CNN interview.
Keep in mind this is AFTER they've left Boulder and buried their daughter:

"Boulder police have been absolutely marvelous. They were there instantly, they were with us, they were caring, compassionate, and I know this has hurt them in their hearts - they're parents as well, and I know they're working very hard..."

Patsy: "I had questions all day the day of her death. For hours they (police) asked us questions and questions trying to get a chronology or a sense...you know we were so... I mean I feel like I'm just now coming out of the shock of it all so I can scarcely recall exactly what happened, it was just that they were very compassionate and trying to help us help them, and they did a wonderful job."

tipper · May 14, 2005

capps said:
Tipper,

...
I know JAR and Melinda were questioned,but I'm not aware of any heavy handedness,can you give me a source for that?

I was thinking it was in PMPT but a quick check didn't find it. Unfortunately I replaced my original (VERY tattered!) paperback with a newer version so I can't be positive that it wasn't in the older one. ST makes a brief reference to it in his book. (But no index - so I can't check quickly) He may have said something like harsh or rough questioning/interview. The gist of what I remember was BPD tried to make Melinda and JAR say their father had molested or abused them. Melinda was in tears by the time they were finished with her and JAR was pretty upset too.

I've got some painting to do today but if I get a chance I'll poke around and see if I can unearth a source.

BlueCrab · May 14, 2005

K777angel said:
This is what John Ramsey said in the Jan. 1, 1997 CNN interview.
Keep in mind this is AFTER they've left Boulder and buried their daughter:

"Boulder police have been absolutely marvelous. They were there instantly, they were with us, they were caring, compassionate, and I know this has hurt them in their hearts - they're parents as well, and I know they're working very hard..."

Patsy: "I had questions all day the day of her death. For hours they (police) asked us questions and questions trying to get a chronology or a sense...you know we were so... I mean I feel like I'm just now coming out of the shock of it all so I can scarcely recall exactly what happened, it was just that they were very compassionate and trying to help us help them, and they did a wonderful job."

Angel,

Excellent post. It proves the Ramseys changed their story.

And Toltec,

You're on target about John suckering in the BPD on day one with the sad-faced "give us some time" baloney in order to delay the questioning, and then stabbing the BPD in the back. Actually, the Ramseys had lawyered up by 5:00 PM on day one (December 26), but didn't let it be known. Hal Haddon and Brian Morgan, John's new attorneys obtained for John by Michael Bynum, had private investigators knocking on doors by daybreak the next morning (December 27), locking in the testimony of witnesses even before the BPD investigators could get to them.

BlueCrab

K777angel · May 14, 2005

BlueCrab said:
Angel,

Excellent post. It proves the Ramseys changed their story.

And Toltec,

You're on target about John suckering in the BPD on day one with the sad-faced "give us some time" baloney in order to delay the questioning, and then stabbing the BPD in the back. Actually, the Ramseys had lawyered up by 5:00 PM on day one (December 26), but didn't let it be known. Hal Haddon and Brian Morgan, John's new attorneys obtained for John by Michael Bynum, had private investigators knocking on doors by daybreak the next morning (December 27), locking in the testimony of witnesses even before the BPD investigators could get to them.

BlueCrab

You better believe John Ramsey was on top of lawyering up from the get-go.
In his own words, again from the CNN interview:

"Well, we were fortunate from almost the moment we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney and uh, we relied on their guidance almost from that moment on....."

There it is.
Now WHY would it even be in your frame of mind to call an ATTORNEY "almost from the moment we found the note?" In that situation?? Not to mention why when the note EMPHASIZED that they'd KILL their daughter if they spoke to anyone about it - they would call dozens of people!!
No fear. Note was fake and they knew it.
It makes you think of another statement Schiller made on a t.v. interview with Matt Laurer when asked about the police report stating that the Ramseys
acted more like people "mourning a death" than a kidnapping.
Schiller stated that there is some "validity to that."
Mr. Cautious wouldn't even get that close if it weren't somehow true.

K777angel · May 14, 2005

One more note about John Ramsey's relationship with Mike Bynum.
He states in this CNN interview that Bynum is a "personal friend of mine."
Yet in his depostion from October 1998, this is what John Ramsey says regarding his relationship with Bynum:

First, regarding John Ramsey's characterization of the level of friendship with the Stines:

(John Ramsey) A: "....we lived with some people."

Q: "Who were these people?"

A: "Susan and Glen Stine"

Q: "Should I add them to your list of close friends?"

A: "They were not close friends, believe it or not."
They were friends, but we didn't socialize alot with them."

And then regarding Mike Bynum:

A: "Well, my friend Mike Bynum, basically asked me would you trust me to do some things that I feel need to be done for your family? And I said yes.

Q: "When did he ask that?"

A: "That was probably the 26th or 27th "

Q: "How long had you known Bynum?"

A: "I had known him for 2 or 3 years I guess."

Q: "Was he a professional associate or a social friend?"

A: "He was I guess more of a professional associate ."

Q: "Also something of a friend?"

A: "Sure."

Q: "What strata would he belong in? Would he be roughly in the same
category as the Stines?"

A: "Uh-huh."

Q: "Yes?"

A: "Yes."

So - we have, in John Ramseys OWN words from interviews, that Mike Bynum was basically a "professional associate." Now why in the world would you even THINK to pick up the phone and call a "professional associate" at a time like it was - in the middle of a supposed life or death situation for your daughter?? WHY A LAWYER?

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