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  1. #1
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    John & the Basement

    There has long been speculation about what John Ramsey did down in the basement the morning of the 26th when he was "missing." Det. Linda Arndt stated that when he came back up from the basement that morning he was more visibly shaken and upset.

    In looking over some of my old copies of transcripts last night I came upon this statement from Larry Schiller. It's from his Barnes & Noble on-line chat discussing his new book.

    The question posed to Schiller was this:
    Q: "At 10am on Dec. 26th, the morning of the murder, John Ramsey disappeared for awhile. Where do YOU think he went? Was he possibly tampering with evidence or moving JonBenet's body?

    A: (Schiller) "I know that he went into the basement and found the broken window open. He himself told this to the police on April 30, 1997. What ELSE he did in the basement I have been asked by law enforcement to exclude from the book to protect the investigation."

    And later Schiller stated, "My book contains only about 10% of what I know of the investigation..."

    Two things stand out to me. One, it is pretty clear that John Ramsey did indeed DO something down in that basement that morning (or it would not have been requested of Schiller to EXCLUDE it from his book to protect the investigation).
    And secondly - the question has been raised before as to why John Ramsey, when prompted by Det. Linda Ardnt to "search the house top to bottom" - chose to make a bee-line straight for the basement - not to mention straight to the tucked away room where JonBenet's body lay - he didn't start at the "top" and work his way down?
    In light of the fact that he was down in that basement messing around not too long before Arndt's suggestion - makes it even more curious and frankly very suspicious.

    In addition, we've often heard different crime experts say that usually if a parent has been involved in the death of their child that they are not the ones to "find" the body. This is been promoted as being in John Ramsey's favor as he was the one who "found" the body.
    We know now this is not always true as little Laura Hobbs evil father who stabbed her (and her friend) to death on Mother's Day - was the one who "found" his daughter's body. They had a crime expert on t.v. saying the reason he did this was to contaminate the crime scene with HIS forensics and evidence to explain why it was there at the crime scene.

    Did John Ramsey feel "safer" finding the body since he had 2 friends with him this time down to the basement?? (Mr. Hobbs had someone else with him upon his "discovery" as well).
    And by the way - we've heard alot about Fleet White's reaction and observation of John Ramsey's "discovery" of JonBenet' body. Along with the account of him running up the stairs and grabbing a phone and shouting for someone to call 911... but why have we never heard anything from John Fernie who was right there with Fleet?? The affadavit states that John Fernie was right there. It states: "John Ramsey immediately went to the basement of the house, followed by Fleet White and John Fernie."
    This post is my opinion.

  2. #2
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    Just my two cents:

    John HAD to find JonBenet. Both a police officer and FW missed finding her.

    Great post K77Angel. So many tiny little details that add up to so much.


    Jubie

  3. #3
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    Hmmm

    I would wonder if Mr. Hobbs, had been an avid TV crime show watcher?

    He may have just had a pang of conscience about what he had done. He may in fact be a new factor in case studies of murdering fathers.

    Yep Linda Arndt may have truly noted JR's unsettling look upon coming up from the basement the first time. JR could have hollered when he was down there the first time, but didn't, perhaps because he thought the police would then focus on him if he had.

    BUT of course the police focused on him and family anyhow. They were the only people in the house, with no visible signs of forced entry. Hmmm.


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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  4. #4
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    What DID JR do down there that was excluded to protect the investigation?

    Later information came out about the chair that was pushed up against the door (actually eliminating the broken window as a means of exit for an intruder). Perhaps that was investigative info...that JR had to remove the chair to see the broken window --

    But then, didn't FW have to remove the chair as well - and replace it, again.

    Did FW say he saw the suitcase under the window when he saw the broken window earlier?

    Fernie...it's reported that JR was first, then FW - was Fernie way behind in the route to the basement? Therefore, witnessing nothing -
    IMO -

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    The question posed to Schiller was this:
    Q: "At 10am on Dec. 26th, the morning of the murder, John Ramsey disappeared for awhile. Where do YOU think he went? Was he possibly tampering with evidence or moving JonBenet's body?

    A: (Schiller) "I know that he went into the basement and found the broken window open. He himself told this to the police on April 30, 1997. What ELSE he did in the basement I have been asked by law enforcement to exclude from the book to protect the investigation."

    K777angel

    When Schiller refers to "law enforcement" do you know specifically to which law enforcement body he was referring to?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    K777angel

    When Schiller refers to "law enforcement" do you know specifically to which law enforcement body he was referring to?
    I am sure he is referring to the Boulder Police Department as they were the overseeing law enforcement and investigative body at that time.
    This post is my opinion.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    I am sure he is referring to the Boulder Police Department as they were the overseeing law enforcement and investigative body at that time.
    Thanks for your reply K777angel. It is what I expected to be the case. I think the BPD are doing this because they are being pressured by someone close to the perpetrators to stop the truth coming out. Acting under instruction, the BPD are trying to keep the true perpetrators free from suspicion, which is why they are trying to make the Ramseys look like the guilty ones. And why would they want to do this you ask? It all goes back to the power held by the kind of group to which the perpetrators belong. They have influential people in high places who can apply pressure and affect the outcome of police investigations so that their groups and their practices are kept hidden from the general public IMO.

  8. #8
    What Schiller excluded could have been what John did when he discovered the broken window...he closed and locked it.

    John Ramsey made two KNOWN trips to the basement...once around 7-10am...and then the 1pm.

    But let's not forget what he told Melinda's fiancee Stuart Long...that he discovered the body around 11am. This peaked Stuart Long's interest so he called BPD and talked to Steve Thomas about it.

    My guess is that Fleet White suspects John only because Fleet did not see JonBenet's white blanket when he opened the wine cellar door. I'm sure this has bothered Fleet to this day.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel

    Did John Ramsey feel "safer" finding the body since he had 2 friends with him this time down to the basement?? (Mr. Hobbs had someone else with him upon his "discovery" as well).
    And by the way - we've heard alot about Fleet White's reaction and observation of John Ramsey's "discovery" of JonBenet' body. Along with the account of him running up the stairs and grabbing a phone and shouting for someone to call 911... but why have we never heard anything from John Fernie who was right there with Fleet?? The affadavit states that John Fernie was right there. It states: "John Ramsey immediately went to the basement of the house, followed by Fleet White and John Fernie."
    I'm not sure what affidavit you are referring to, but Fernie was not down in the basement with John & Fleet. Fernie went upstairs while John & Fleet went down...

    Many parents who kill their kids are the ones to "find" them, or lead authorities to them (usually inadvertantly) by going back to where they left the body.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    Thanks for your reply K777angel. It is what I expected to be the case. I think the BPD are doing this because they are being pressured by someone close to the perpetrators to stop the truth coming out. Acting under instruction, the BPD are trying to keep the true perpetrators free from suspicion, which is why they are trying to make the Ramseys look like the guilty ones. And why would they want to do this you ask? It all goes back to the power held by the kind of group to which the perpetrators belong. They have influential people in high places who can apply pressure and affect the outcome of police investigations so that their groups and their practices are kept hidden from the general public IMO.
    I think the BPD was frustrated beyond belief because of how the DA's office chose to (mis)handle the case. I think the DA's office knew they were a knat on the wall ready to be squashed by the Ramsey's powerful set of attorneys so made sure this case would never go to trial.
    I agree that the Ramseys were protected from places high up.
    The question is - why?
    This post is my opinion.


  11. #11
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    chair

    If somone is not too busy, could they please reply with the story about the chair behind the door. I remember reading about this years ago about how the chair was placed was unfavorable for the intruder theory.
    Thanks!

  12. #12
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie
    If somone is not too busy, could they please reply with the story about the chair behind the door. I remember reading about this years ago about how the chair was placed was unfavorable for the intruder theory.
    Thanks!



    ------------->>>
    Charlie, I am sorry I don't remember the complete details about the chair, but someone will.

    Wonder if Stuart's call to Steve Thomas about the time frame that JR found the body, caused any discomfort in the Ramsey family, OR OR IF IF JR never knew that Stuart had ratted on JR? OF course by now JR must know.

    IF IF JR seemed unsettled by Linda Arndt, when he came up from basement on his first trip, it would seem to me that JR either did NOT know about JonBenet lying dead in his basement, THAT would be my first guess about his behavior.

    OTHERWISE why would JR have even gone to the basement that first time, IF IF he already knew JonBenet was down there and was in fact dead.

    OF course someone HAD to find JonBenet, BEFORE the BPD LEFT THE HOUSE, yes/no, well maybe not since BPD missed the body in their search, and the note 'was' a ransom note for heavens sake, which in normal language would MEAN that JonBenet WAS GONE - AND NOT IN THE HOUSE.

    Linda Arndt set the entire fiasco in motion, by asking JR to look around ? for anything that seemed out of order, duh, er, huh. JR and Fleet speed to the basement and Fernie goes upstairs. I had not remembered that about Fernie, and how the heck could Fernie know IF IF something did not look right???

    I don't know how many of us would have done any better, when Arndt was there with zero police backup!!!

    OR Fleet either for that matter.

    The chair IF IF it was pushed against the door of the room with the broken window, I do not remember with clarity which room it was against. HOW come a chair was pushed up against the door, since the door in most homes push in toward the inner part of a room. IF the chair was under the doorknob, it would not have kept the door from being opened from within the room. Yep I need my memory refreshed about which door, which room, in the room OR?

    BUT, IF IF PR had for example put the chair there as a reminder to the children to KEEP the door closed since the broken window would be letting in COLD air, it was winter after all.



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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLynn
    What DID JR do down there that was excluded to protect the investigation?

    Later information came out about the chair that was pushed up against the door (actually eliminating the broken window as a means of exit for an intruder). Perhaps that was investigative info...that JR had to remove the chair to see the broken window --

    But then, didn't FW have to remove the chair as well - and replace it, again.

    Did FW say he saw the suitcase under the window when he saw the broken window earlier?

    Fernie...it's reported that JR was first, then FW - was Fernie way behind in the route to the basement? Therefore, witnessing nothing -
    Regarding the suitcase being staged....

    We've discussed the suitcase ad nauseum, I know. But something occurred to me. Maybe the contents of the suitcase were purposely placed inside, to make the police think the contents were a part of luring JB out. We know that the comforter was JAR's and had his semen. The semen stain may have not been visible and whoever did the staging may not have known it was even there. Plus, the Dr. Seuss book is suggestive of a child, even though it did belong to JAR, maybe the stager just grabbed it out of JB's bedroom not thinking that it did belong to JAR. Maybe the stager wanted the BPD to think that "here's evidence that a pedophile was in the house"; he took the time to gather up items of interest to a child in order to get her to go with him?

  14. #14
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    A detail but... The chair wasn't blocking a door. It was blocking a doorway. The door was open.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker
    I'm not sure what affidavit you are referring to, but Fernie was not down in the basement with John & Fleet. Fernie went upstairs while John & Fleet went down...

    Many parents who kill their kids are the ones to "find" them, or lead authorities to them (usually inadvertantly) by going back to where they left the body.
    This is in the affadavit for the first search warrant they applied for.
    It details the events recorded of that day from the police reports.
    This post is my opinion.

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