Fantasy Island, 'DA Plane, Da Plane'

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Camper

Camper

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Thought it might be interesting to re-re-visit the Ramsey Plane.

John had done re configurations on 'Da Plane' that made it the fastest of its kind of that particular make and model. Info can be found in DOI on the ramifications and the comment about HOW fast it was.

Question: Does anyone have transcripts of interview with Ramseys concerning WHAT TIME they were to leave on 'DA Plane' the 26th??

The family Ramsey were up at the crack of dawn the 26th. (not Burke and certainly NOT JonBenet) PR full makeup when the BPD came.

My memory may be failing, correct me if I err, BUT I am remembering that when JR tried to call 'the private pilot' the pilot was not available. I am remembering the plane WAS NOT ready at 10 AM, do I err in my memory???

IF IF it was NOT ready at 10 AM WHERE HAD IT BEEN. JR was at the airport Christmas Day prepping their early AM takeoff, DID HE fuel 'DA Plane the 25th?

JUST WHAT did he do the 25th with DA Plane.

I don't know the set up at the airport on re-fueling, (??were the fueling pumps accessible with a credit card er how 'was' payment made for fueling??) was 'da pilots' credit card used on the 26th or was JR's card used on the 25th?

IF IF IF one of the 'things' JR did at the airport on the 25th was checking the fuel, and 'DA Plane', how come the 'DA Plane' was NOT ready on the 26th at 10AM (IF 10AM is correct as I am remembering.)

Keep in mind that JR had to (his words in DOI) sell 'DA Plane' shortly after Susannah Chase murder in 1997, to cover his legal expenses as I recall. 'DA Plane was sold at a considerable discount to 'da pilot' at that time. The sale info was online at one time, I don't have a source for the figure it was sold for.

(Another co-hort on WS, and I yahoo chatted together on the speed of the plane, and the distance as a crow would fly to GA, and it was a workable time frame to have transported someone away from Boulder.) Don't bother arguing with me, WE did it. I had a source in the FAA who checked the model of plane JR had, FAA has a huge book with every make and type of plane and all technical info about the planes, in the event of an in air 'situation' that requires immediate assistance) and the speed. Plus we factored in the added features JR had redone on 'DA Plane' to make it even faster.



.
 
Rod Westmoreland is the one who was not available, not Archuleta. John Ramsey asked Archuleta to contact the older children to call immediately when they arrive in Minneapolis.

Rainsong
 
Your WS cohort was probably MJenn, part of her long JAR theory? I remember it too. She proved that there was indeed time for JAR to have flown to Boulder, maybe with a pal, and back to Atlanta in time to board a plane with his sister as had been planned, approximately 6 AM if I remember correctly.

Maybe you also remember that at the time I said "Listen carefully" is a favorite saying of a TV preacher in Atlanta, Charles Stanley. He was one of the original 3 founders of the so-called Moral Majority, along with Falwell and Presbyterian D. James Kennedy. Forum people apparently are not taking this possible connection seriously. It may be a good, even major, clue. Someone who'd sat in church in Atlanta and heard this phrase, maybe for a lifetime, may have written the note. I'm not Baptist and only know about the program because it comes on right after one that I do watch most every week.

Chris Stanley was one of JAR's pals, probably a relative of the TV preacher. I probably asked at the time, could this buddy have written the ransom note after the accident and unintentionally ID'd himself by using the Atlanta church phrase Listen Carefully? JAR had said Patsy was "flashy" as if he didn't "particularly like" her.

I don't think he or anyone at the rumored party would have intended to kill JonBenet. Maybe he didn't even actually go there. But there are RUMORS of a FW party late that night, according to another forum, so JAR and his friend and all the others COULD have looked in on the party, if there was a party. Burke's statement that JonBenet went home with them and walked upstairs seems honest and spontaneous. If there was this party, maybe someone from it came and got JonBenet from her bed, returned her to the bsmt room as if she'd never left the house, to cover for themselves. Or, come to think of it, "We didn't mean for this to happen" and "I'm so sorry" certianly could have meant the parents rationalized that JonBenet could catch up on her sleep on the way to Charlevoix and gave their consent. So that now they feel so guilty and can't expose that. Also, as a former LE person at another forum suggested, someone too high up in gov't to tangle with may have been involved.

Wish we knew where JAR and his pals are now, if they're now married with children, what they're doing, etc.
 
Rainsong said:
Rod Westmoreland is the one who was not available, not Archuleta. John Ramsey asked Archuleta to contact the older children to call immediately when they arrive in Minneapolis.

Rainsong
Click to expand...
I have a vague memory that Archuleta wasn't immediately available for one of the times John called him and had to call John back. I think we talked about it on Jayelles site. I also have an even vaguer memory that the prep for the plane included fueling and the de-prep (as it were) included draining the fuel out. It would make sense that they don't want a bunch of planes sitting around a runway full of combustible fuel.
 
I sure thought it was Archuletta himself who wasn't available on time. We talked about his possibly having flown JAR to Atlanta and that he badly needed a few z's.

One of JAR's Atlanta pals had relatives who owned a small airport, and we speculated that he flew JAR to Boulder, correct?
 
DOI pb, page 15

This phone call to Archuleta is after John Ramsey attempted to call Westmoreland and before he (JR) received a return call from him (RW) informing him a $118, 000 line of credit has been made available. This phone call to Archuleta is prior to 10AM.

John Ramsey, according to DOI, did not call Archuleta again until after finding JonBenet.

Rainsong
 
The first time JR tried calling Archuletta was right after Fernie arrived at the home...PMPT paperback, page 78...

"A few minutes later, John Ramsey tried to phone his pilot, Mike Archuletta to tell him what had happened and learned that the pilot was already on his way to the airport..."


PMPT...page(s) 135

"About 10 minutes after Patsy Ramsey called 911, and three minutes after Officer French arrived at the Ramsey house, John tried to call Archuletta at the airport. Instead he reached co-pilot Bjelkovig..."


PMPT...page 136

By 6:05, the police, the Fernies, the Whites, and the Ramsey's pilots all knew about the kidnapping, though the ransom note had threatened that JonBenet would die if Ramsey informed anyone. The police were puzzled about why John Ramsey was in such a hurry to tell his pilot that his daughter had been kidnapped. When Ramsey finally talked to Archuletta that morning, he instructed the pilot not to fly to Minneapolis. Instead, Archuletta was to notify the commercial airline on which Ramsey's children were arriving from Atlanta, and leave word for them to call their father. At 1:30 pm, just 25 minutes after JonBenet's body was found, John Ramsey called Archuletta again, at his home.


She's gone, Ramsey said. They've killed her. Then he told Archuletta to ready the plane for a flight to Atlanta that evening. Fleet White then called Archuletta at 3:00pm to say that the trip to Atlanta had been canceled. Ramsey's flight plans raised more questions for the police: Why had Ramsey called Archuletta so soon after JonBenet's body was found, and why did he want to leave Boulder?"
 
Moab said:
...
PMPT...page 136

By 6:05, the police, the Fernies, the Whites, and the Ramsey's pilots all knew about the kidnapping, though the ransom note had threatened that JonBenet would die if Ramsey informed anyone. The police were puzzled about why John Ramsey was in such a hurry to tell his pilot that his daughter had been kidnapped. When Ramsey finally talked to Archuletta that morning, he instructed the pilot not to fly to Minneapolis. Instead, Archuletta was to notify the commercial airline on which Ramsey's children were arriving from Atlanta, and leave word for them to call their father. At 1:30 pm, just 25 minutes after JonBenet's body was found, John Ramsey called Archuletta again, at his home.


...QUOTE]
No sure why the police would find this puzzling. If John thought his day would be consumed with dropping off ransom $$s etc, he'd want to take care of getting the other en route kids squared away as quickly as possible,
Click to expand...
 
tipper said:
No sure why the police would find this puzzling. If John thought his day would be consumed with dropping off ransom $$s etc, he'd want to take care of getting the other en route kids squared away as quickly as possible,
Click to expand...
Also, wouldn't JR call him after JBR was kidnapped to say that they're not coming to the airport? That's the one call that makes sense to me.
 
Maybe it seemed to the police that a man whose day would be consumed with trying to save his child from murderous kidnappers would not, could not, be thinking about anything else.

And if it was his older kids he wanted to communicate with, why not call them directly or have them paged at the commercial airline? Or why not take advantage of the invited friends on the scene and ask one of them to call the kids? Considering the house full of support group and John's apparent need to delegate, why would he need to be making any phone calls himself?

IMO it struck many people as odd that John and Patsy had such a need to "share" that morning... when one would think their sole concern would be for JonBenet and her safety.

Anyway, I'd think that in any crime situation it would raise cop eyebrows if one of the major players in the drama displayed an urgent need to be in contact with the pilot of his (possible) getaway plane. Why should John Ramsey be exempt from such "puzzlement"?
 
tipper said:
No sure why the police would find this puzzling. If John thought his day would be consumed with dropping off ransom $$s etc, he'd want to take care of getting the other en route kids squared away as quickly as possible,
Click to expand...
PMPT - 136 "...though the ransom note had threatened that JonBenet would die if Ramsey informed anyone..."

I can understand calling the police from a cell phone, but numerous miscellaneous calls from the land line, and here one must remember just how many calls Patsy made as well? Who would do that? Someone who knew they wouldn't be jeopardizing the life of their daughter? Did he have to make all those calls? Couldn't he have given the message about notifying JAR and Melinda to the co-pilot?
 
There's also another passage in one of the books where John asks Archuletta how long it would take to get the plane ready to depart to Atlanta.

Archuletta answers a couple of hours (don't remember the exact time) - but point being - if the plane was supposed to be ready for take off early that morning, why wouldn't it already be on stand-by? Why would it take an hour or more....?

Also, I believe it was after 11 am when Archuletta finally returns John's phone calls from the morning (when he wasn't at home and when he wasn't at the airport).

Another interesting note - Archuletta now owns that airplane.
 
TLynn said:
There's also another passage in one of the books where John asks Archuletta how long it would take to get the plane ready to depart to Atlanta.

Archuletta answers a couple of hours (don't remember the exact time) - but point being - if the plane was supposed to be ready for take off early that morning, why wouldn't it already be on stand-by? Why would it take an hour or more....?

Also, I believe it was after 11 am when Archuletta finally returns John's phone calls from the morning (when he wasn't at home and when he wasn't at the airport).

Another interesting note - Archuletta now owns that airplane.
Click to expand...
We had a friend with his own plane. He was a stickler for safety and I'll bet would have done a complete pre-flight even though he'd done one 7 or 8 hours earlier. Anyway, found this:
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2004/apr/preflight.html



Pilot Proficiency: The Ultimate Preflight
The assumption that the airplane has always worked in the past is no excuse for a hasty inspection

BY Budd Davisson

The operative word there is "almost." "Almost zero" isn’t zero. Although we’ll never get an airplane to be 100% in terms of condition, wouldn’t it be silly to get hurt just because we didn’t bother to spend an extra five minutes and missed a loose nut or a crack that was right there, ready to be discovered?

Not everything that goes wrong with an airplane is catastrophic, but who wants anything to be wrong with their airplane? Here are some examples of glitches found in our personal airplanes during preflights over the years: a dozen or so broken exhaust stacks, a broken (not cracked, but broken) motor mount, one of the main through-bolts holding the engine case together was lying in the bottom of the cowl, a cracked oil cooler, leaking brake calipers, a cracked scissor link on the nosegear, etc.

preflight.jpg

Realistically, there are limits to what we can actually inspect during a preflight because we don’t have access to the entire airplane without pulling out panels. In many cases, we can’t even do a thorough inspection of the engine compartment because the cowling only has an oil door. Still, we should avail ourselves of what access there is and do our best to make sure there isn’t a gremlin hiding in a corner somewhere that’s just waiting to bite us in our personal empennage. So, if we can’t pull out panels, just what can we check on a normal walkaround that’s often overlooked?

Most POHs include a little walkaround map that usually starts with checking the oil on the right side of the engine cowl. We’ll start in the same place and slowly work our way around the airplane back to where we started. Before we start, however, we’ll assemble a paltry toolkit that includes a screwdriver/fuel tester, a clean rag and a flashlight. At least the first preflight each day should be done with a flashlight. Ideally, a flashlight should be used on all preflights.

Checking Oil
When loosening the dipstick, see if there’s any "give" in the oil fill tube. If it’s loose where it screws into the engine case, it’ll start leaking there.

How does the oil look? Clean? Dirty? Dead black? Maybe it’s way past the time to change it. And what’s the level? Look in the POH for your engine and stay well above the minimum oil level indicated. If the oil is at a minimum or running low, that’s because it’s either leaking or burning. So, if you take off with it low, it’s going to be even lower (or gone) later in the flight. Fill it up above minimum!

Engine Compartment
If the oil door is the only aperture in the cowling, chances are you’re going to need a short stool because you can’t see down into most of the smaller oil doors while standing on the ramp. Get up and shine your little light around in there. What you’re searching for is anything that looks loose, along with indications of oil leaks.

Oil is supposed to be inside the engine and the fact that some of it isn’t means that somewhere there’s an open fault in the engine. The presence of oil probably just means a gasket or fitting is leaking, but tracking it down can also lead to the discovery of a crack.

What you’re actually looking for is a change, and this concept applies to the entire preflight. If the engine is always dry and suddenly it’s wet, something has changed and you need to find out what it is. Some engines are leakers, so a little oil isn’t a change and you fly. A lot of oil is a change and you don’t fly.

If you have more access to the engine compartment or even if you’re limited to peeking through those ridiculous little hatches, you’ll want to do at least the following steps:
• Check the cylinders around the bases, looking for oil leaks.
• Check around rocker covers, looking for leaks.
• Check the bottom of cylinder heads, looking for exhaust smudges that indicate exhaust cracks, bad gaskets or possible head cracks.
• Check the inside surface of the cowl itself for oil or exhaust smudges. Their location on the cowl gives an indication of where the problem is. If there are new smudges, find out where they came from.
• If you can, and the engine isn’t hot, grab each spark plug to see if there is any looseness in either the ignition lead or the plug itself.
• Scan as much of the motor mount as possible, looking for cracks, dings or burned places.
• Check mufflers and heater muffs for smudges made by leaking cracks.
• If possible, trace the throttle cable from where it leaves the firewall to the carburetor or fuel control unit, and look for wear and tear, or loose connections.
• Trace each oil line and fuel line, looking for chafing or leaks.
• Grab the alternator belt and check for tension.
• Look for chafe marks, especially on hoses against metal or metal against hoses.
• Look in cowl air intakes for baffle cracks, leaks and foreign objects.

Propeller
Grab the tip and work it back and forth, looking for looseness. Run your fingernails up the leading and trailing edges. Your nails will catch in scratches, dings and cracks that your fingertips won’t feel. Check the spinner mount screws to see if they’re loose or if cracks are radiating from the holes.

Nosegear
Look for proper strut extension and signs of oleo leaking, and get down and really eyeball the scissors link. If it fails, the strut will rotate and fail, and a simple loose bolt or crack has now turned into an engine and prop overhaul. Rock the nose and see if the nosewheel shows any movement on the axle. Examine the steering linkage for any signs that it has been working against adjacent parts.

Main Gear Leg
Check for wrinkles in the fuselage skin where the main gear leg goes into the fuselage. Also, check the belly for wrinkles and, while you’re down there, look for excessive oil (a little is okay—show me an airplane with a clean belly and I’ll show you an airplane that doesn’t fly much).

Wheel/Brake
Check the wheel pant for movement and run your hand along the bottom of the brake caliper, looking for hydraulic fluid. Even a little indicates a leak and it doesn’t take much of a leak for a brake to go away on you. If there’s fluid on the ground, don’t go flying that day. Rock the airplane to see if the wheel is moving on the axle at all, indicating a worn or improperly adjusted axle nut.

Wing Strut
Look for signs of rust, corrosion or any indications that any of the bolts or rivets have been working. Especially look for nicks or dings in the struts where they’ve been hit by something.

Wing
Eyeball the leading edge for damage and continue down around the wingtip, looking for the same thing. Gently push the wingtip, looking for movement. One of the factors we’re constantly looking for everywhere on the airplane is relative motion between two parts where there isn’t supposed to be any. Examine nav-light lenses for security.

Aileron
Push the aileron full up so you can see the hinges. Examine where they attach to both the wing and aileron, looking for corrosion/rust, signs they’ve been working and/or cracks. Put the palm of your hand against the bottom of the leading edge of the aileron at each hinge and push up. You’re looking for vertical movement, which indicates the hinges are loose on the wing or aileron spar. If it has external counterweights, e.g., a Cherokee, check the mount points inside the outboard end of the aileron for cracks. Repeat the same check for the flaps. When the flaps are up and locked, jiggle them and see if they’re truly locked. Most modern airplanes are. Some older ones aren’t supposed to be.

Fuel Level, Fuel Tanks
Everyone should have graduated fuel sticks for their tanks, which are readily available for most popular models of airplanes. If you can’t feel the fuel with your fingertip, it’s critical that you have an accurate way of measuring exactly how much fuel there actually is. It’s a lousy place to be guessing and don’t trust the fuel gauges, which are the most frequently inaccurate part of an airplane (that is, if you don’t count the pilot claiming how fast his or her airplane is).

Also look for fuel stains under the wing around the tank. These are sure signs of leaks. At the same time, look at the tank vents to make sure insects aren’t building hotels in them.

Horizontal Tail
If it’s a stabilator, peek down inside the fuselage and/or tail cone and try to see the pivot point. Again, you’re looking for cracks, rust or indications that it’s been wearing against something. Move the surface up and down at the tip to see if there’s any sign that it’s moving independent of the fuselage.

On a normal, two-piece tail, rock the stabilizer to see that it has no movement and push the elevator down so you have a clear view of the hinges. Check them the same way you did the ailerons: Push up on the elevator spar and see if there’s any vertical movement relative to the stabilizer.

If there are any wires or struts for the tail, check them carefully for nicks and chips, and examine the ends, both the top and the bottom, for signs of rust or movement.

Trim Tabs
Trim-tab hinges and actuating mechanisms seem to wear more than most parts of an airplane, and a loose or broken trim tab can cause flutter. Flutter is serious stuff and can tear the tail clean off an airplane, which isn’t good. Just wiggle the trim tab. It’s okay if it has a little movement, but it shouldn’t have much.

Tail Cone
Check to see the tail cone is securely attached and that the position light is tight in its mount. Look down inside for birds’ nests or anything else that looks as if it shouldn’t be there. Also, use the flashlight to examine the elevator pushrod bolts. All bolts in an airplane should show no less than three and no more than five threads.

Tailwheel
Grab the top of the vertical stabilizer and rock the airplane back and forth while you watch the tailwheel. You’re looking for relative movement between the fuselage and the spring, between the spring and the tailwheel, and between the tailwheel and the wheel itself. Listen for clicking, which will indicate something is moving.

Pitot System
Bugs are the pitot’s biggest enemy, with dings being next. Some pitot tubes are mounted in such a way that fuelers with hoses have to work hard to avoid them, so watch for indications they’ve been hit or bent. If you change the angle of the pitot tube, you also change the airspeed indicator. And don’t forget the static ports that may be located somewhere on the aft fuselage. Keep them clean.

Don‘t Take Any Chances
From this point on, it becomes a pre-start, pre-takeoff checklist that requires a vigilance all its own. The bottom line on a preflight, however, is to get to know your airplane intimately, which includes the little dark places you don’t normally look into.

The assumption many pilots hide behind is that the airplane has always worked in the past, so what are the odds of something happening on this particular flight? The exact opposite point of view should prevail—because everything wears out eventually, make the assumption that the last flight the airplane was on was when something important broke. Healthy pessimism has its place and one of those places is every time you prepare to go flying.



 
My hubby had his own little Cessna, two seater, BEFORE I met him. But had sold it BEFORE we met.

With all of the items on the check list, seems like Patsy could have slept later THAT morning. Burke was and did ?, er, huh - maybe yes, maybe no. Have to take another vote on that one.

JR and co-pilot flew a lot of places, they surely must have had a checklist for each of them, er maybe just double checked everything twice, once by JR and once by pilot A. I wonder if the BPD ever did a double Q & A of the 'co-pilot that Moab mentioned co-pilot Bjelkovig..."

Was co-pilot Bjelkovig at the airport that morning to co pilot a plane that WAS not there OR OR even ready, OR NOT back yet. IF IF it was your flying service, would you let a co-pilot do the OFFICIAL check list of another plane, without you supervising it. Just where was pilot A 'that' morning, the owner of the air service. HOW come Bjelkovig was even there at all on December 26th?

Tipper how many seats did your plane have?

BUT but but but, (that is my bad engine/outta tune) but but IF IF IF they were going to go EARLY how come Da Plane war not reddy!!!

The family Ramsey had gone bye bye in Da Plane often, it wasn't like it was a whole new experience to BE ready and Da Plane to be ready.

I smell funny stuff, and it ain't engine oil.
 
I really wouldnt know, but wouldnt a plane have to leave at the time certivied,its not like driving out of a carpark,i not sure about airspace but im thinking it would be fairly strict
 
TLynn said:
Archuletta answers a couple of hours (don't remember the exact time) - but point being - if the plane was supposed to be ready for take off early that morning, why wouldn't it already be on stand-by? Why would it take an hour or more....?
Click to expand...
Well one thing they would have to do is file new flight plans. I have no idea how long that would take, and probably the fuel would be different for the two different mileages as well. It seems as if the pre-flight check wouldn't have taken too long. PMPT says Archuletta left his home for the airport at around 6am for a flight that was supposed to leave at 7am.
 
I will check with my FAA friend about the flight plan procedure.

Christmas of 1996 fell on a Wednesday, I am wondering just how many folks would have been flying out of town the day after Christmas from the same little airport?

Anyone with any wealth at all would most likely have taken the entire weekend off, then you have New Years to contend with BEFORE most folks have to get back to grinding their axes at WORK.

My curiosity deepens about why the other co-pilot was even at the airport. I am also betting another nickel that the BPD never checked any of that out. Perhaps the other co-pilot would have a story to tell, or sell, hmmm.

Another poster tells me that I have a fertile mind.


Moab, I am missing something in your post, " -?? and probably the fuel would be different for the two different mileages as well.??

Which two mileages do you refer to, Atlanta get outta town mileage, and the Mpls one, is that what you refer to? Thanks




.



.
 
Camper, this is an interesting thread! I wonder if we have only JR's word for it that he called Pilot A's home and heard that he was on the way to the airport at around 6Am? And then later that morning, he actually talked to the pilot...Is what you are thinking that the pilot was actually flying "someone" to a distant city in the hours between midnightish and the later that morning time-frame?
 
Morag, WE who reside here in Mushroom country, know there are many possibilities of 'Who Done It'.

I provide a partial definition of a mushroom, "mushrooms proliferate in the dark and reproduce by releasing billions of spores. There are about 38,000 varieties of mushrooms, from deliciously edible to highly toxic."

IT was determined by myself and a co-hort that it was a feasible trip, time wise, to remove a person from Boulder to GA, and have the plane back to Boulder. The typical refuel stop, I have forgotten the location, but in the middle of Christmas night, you know that just pushing a credit card in the fueling pump, would not take an audience of participating employees at the gas pump.

All of us here in mushroom country know that WE do not have ALL of the facts that the BPD discovered, and because of what appears to have been a faulty investigation/and questioning of all parties that MIGHT have been involved in the murder, OR that had some vital links of knowledge that were just tiny pieces of a great big puzzle.

Then we have legal counsel being provided for JR, PR, Burke and all family in GA, independant counsel for each individual, rather than mass legal counsel for the family as a single unit. That action was new to me, so I don't know if my thinking it was ODD, is accurate or not.

Plus, the alibi's were very tight at the GA end. The 'who was it' part of this is a real mystery. Fleet White has never spoken, although at the GA funeral he got into a tangle with some Ramsey family relatives.

So, Morag, you can pretty much take your pick of a favorite theory. This case apt to still being talked about until the cows come home, unless a pie hole opens up, and tells what they know.

I would love to find the co-pilot that Moab speaks of and ask some questions. Hope some of those 'detectives' that showed up on the crockamentary could find him and ask those probing questions.

1. Why were YOU at the airport so early that day?
2. Were you scheduled to fly somewhere BUT the plane you were going to use was NOT there? (prob not - unless JonBenet was murdered earlier than any of us know) OR if it were a plane that was as fast as JR's.
3. When did Mr. A. show up at the airport and HOW did he get there?
4. Were you called to come to the airport early by Mr. A. to do the pre-flight check for the Ramsey plane cuz Mr. A. was not there?
5. Detectives could have checked the co-pilots bank records to see if there was a nice deposit, later. I was born suspicious, sorry, I learned it from my mother.

Moab, thank you I had not remembered about the other co-pilot, nor did I even know his name. Do you have a source for the co-pilot involvement that day?


:boohoo:
 
Is it true that Fleet White has never spoken? Is there not some "sealed" deposition locked away in Boulder?
 
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