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  1. #1
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    'The doors'

    Now a sports coach after resigning in December, he told Roux he did not notice a difference between two pictures of the front door of Pistorius's house sealed.
    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...r-trial-day-10


    link


    The photo below shows the projectile shots in the toilet door...

    https://twitter.com/SHOOT_HiRezLife/...445569/photo/1

    The former commander described removing the door, checking that it could be reattached, putting it in a body bag and taking it to his office.
    This is critical testimony because the defense argues that the door, as evidence, is contaminated.

    If previously given expert testimony based on markings on the door prevails, it could make Pistorius look as though he lied about a detail in his account of events.
    Van Rensburg resigned from the police force amid accusations that he mishandled evidence by keeping the door in his office.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/...storius-trial/

    Prosecutor Gerrie Nel introduced photographs of Mr Pistorius’s main bedroom door, damaged around its lock and with a suspected projectile hole through it, and of an air rifle fitted with a silencer leaning next to it.
    He testified that the doors, curtains and a window were open — contrary to Mr Pistorius’s statements that he had got up to close the balcony door and curtains prior to the shooting.
    Mr Nel questioned Lt-Col van Rensburg over the damaged bedroom door.
    "I did not inspect it," he said. "Crime scene management officers discovered the damage ... above the lock and the hole through the door."
    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/201...istorius-trial

    These and many other questions are brought to light:

    *Does the difference in the evidence photos of the front door compromise the investigation?
    *What is the sequence of the projectile shots on the toilet door?
    *When and how was the master bedroom door damaged and is the suspected projectile hole relevant to the night of the killing?
    *Why was the bedroom door locked that night?
    *Will the storage of the bathroom door compromise it's forensic value?


    There has been lots of testimony about different doors in the Pistorius home… discuss the evidence pertaining to “the doors” on this thread…
    Last edited by Harmony 2; 03-14-2014 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Although the bathroom door was stored in the commander's office, as long as the covering bag was sealed I wouldn't think that this should compromise the forensic analysis. You are already accepting an element of trust regarding evidence as soon as the police remove it from the crime scene. Unless you can show tampering, the only complaint can be regarding procedure or the length of time taken to get the door to forensics. The actual quality of forensic analysis would not be diminished.

  3. #3
    james83
    If i can go back to the fact that Oscar was allegedly on his stumps and not as he claimed on his prothesis when he used the bat to break down the toilet door.
    Can anyone think of a reason why he would lie about this?, i can't figure out a reason why he would lie about it, doesn't seem to change much.

    Awaiting what the ballistic will say...
    Maybe he was on his prothesis while shooting thru the little broken wood pieces on the right side of the door which he broke with the bat and after seeing that she was dead /about to die he just made up the intruder story , and ran and put off his legs as if he was in bed and of course vulnerable and came back and exceeded to the bashing the door with tha bat and rescue mode, pulled her out of the bathroom and then put on his legs...

    image.jpg

  4. #4
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    If the sealing tape on the house was disturbed - indicating that someone entered while it was supposed to be sealed - then there's an argument that none of the crime scene evidence can be trusted.

    For example - if there's no explanation for the bent tub plate and hole through the bedroom door, then there's no way to rule out vandalism or evidence tampering by the police.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveml View Post
    Although the bathroom door was stored in the commander's office, as long as the covering bag was sealed I wouldn't think that this should compromise the forensic analysis. You are already accepting an element of trust regarding evidence as soon as the police remove it from the crime scene. Unless you can show tampering, the only complaint can be regarding procedure or the length of time taken to get the door to forensics. The actual quality of forensic analysis would not be diminished.
    The fact that there was a police shoe print on it kind of indicates that it was not adequately stored in a protective and secure location - not being kept in the evidence room with the register, there's no way to know who accessed the door and what they did to it.

  6. #6
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    I posted this in the Photograph thread yesterday. It might be helpful to have it here, too.

    The Bathroom Door

    Evidence: The bullet holes and shattered wood where Pistorius struck the door are clearly seen here.

    Clues: Based on the angle and height of the four bullet holes seen here, Pistorius fired his gun on his stumps, according to forensic analyst Colonel Johannes Vermeulen.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2vrt9C81m


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Steenkamp.html
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  7. #7
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    Something i've never considered before, i wonder if they were arguing, she locked herself in the toilet and he was trying to shoot at the lock, from what we've heard of his history it's the kind of dumb thing he would do.

  8. #8
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    My biggest question of all relates to this

    "A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive".

    So she was alive and clearly in a life threatening condition but the first person he calls is Johan Stander?, why would he not call for medical help straight away, doesn't ring true.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by james83 View Post
    Something i've never considered before, i wonder if they were arguing, she locked herself in the toilet and he was trying to shoot at the lock, from what we've heard of his history it's the kind of dumb thing he would do.
    I thought about that too but if that were the case, shots would be clustered around the lock and likely aimed sharply downward.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts. --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

  10. #10
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by james83 View Post
    My biggest question of all relates to this

    "A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive".

    So she was alive and clearly in a life threatening condition but the first person he calls is Johan Stander?, why would he not call for medical help straight away, doesn't ring true.
    My understanding, and this is based just on the information provided by one of our South African posters, is that paramedic/ambulance service in SA is slow (hour, two hour waits) and not reliable enough for use in true emergencies. People instead just go to the hospital.

    ETA: no idea why that frown it there. Nothing to do w/your post James!
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts. --Daniel Patrick Moynihan


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    james83
    If i can go back to the fact that Oscar was allegedly on his stumps and not as he claimed on his prothesis when he used the bat to break down the toilet door.
    Can anyone think of a reason why he would lie about this?, i can't figure out a reason why he would lie about it, doesn't seem to change much.

    Awaiting what the ballistic will say...
    Maybe he was on his prothesis while shooting thru the little broken wood pieces on the right side of the door which he broke with the bat and after seeing that she was dead /about to die he just made up the intruder story , and ran and put off his legs as if he was in bed and of course vulnerable and came back and exceeded to the bashing the door with tha bat and rescue mode, pulled her out of the bathroom and then put on his legs...

    image.jpg
    I'm skeptical of some of OP's claims in his BH affidavit, but I don't think he's lying about this portion.

    Regarding Vermeulen's conclusion that OP was on his stumps when he bashed in the toilet door:

    I don't give any credence to Col Vermeulen's testimony related to the cricket bat marks on the door.

    Per his own testimony, he's not a certified tool mark examiner. IOW, he lacks the necessary training and experience that would qualify him to analyze the door for any tool marks - including cricket bat marks.

    IMO, Vermeulen's conclusion that OP was on his stumps (and not on his prosthetics) when he bashed in the toilet door is questionable (to say the least) - not to mention that it's contrary to the State's assertion that OP was wearing his prosthetics at that particular time.

    I've never seen a case where the State's own forensic analyst gave testimony that was antithetical to the State's case. But then, I'm used to following US cases & trials where the State's forensic analysts possess the necessary credentials related to their testimony.
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

  12. #12
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    One thing that occurs to me about the bat marks, I wonder if the state (and we here) are wrongly assuming that because the marks are low on the door, this must mean he swung while only on his stumps. If you think about trying to break down a locked door, the natural tendency is to swing near the lock, because it is the lock you're really trying to break through or disable, not necessarily the door itself.

    I'm wondering of they are picturing him swinging almost overhand when in reality he would be swinging as a baseball player swings at a strike, below the waist.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts. --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

  13. #13
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    Good point, Schuby!

    I hadn't though of that before. I had always pictured him swinging overhand, rather than like you just described - like a baseball player swinging a baseball bat.
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

  14. #14
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    Another thought (jumping off Schuby's post) - I wonder if the marks in the door would match a cricket bat being swung like a baseball bat.
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Good point, Schuby!

    I hadn't though of that before. I had always pictured him swinging overhand, rather than like you just described - like a baseball player swinging a baseball bat.
    Thanks--and just building on that, he had to have his prosthetics on, because the fulcrum of your force isn't in your arms-it's in your legs. You can't generate a forceful swing without lining up your hips and legs correctly as a fulcrum.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts. --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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