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  1. #31
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jggordo View Post
    I believe LE found "proof of death" in their searches.
    Yep, there's no question they found (at the very least, what they regard as) proof of death. That's not something we even have to debate. Without that, they cannot legally arrest ZA on a charge of murder.

    But that's a different issue from whether they found a body, or remains. They need not have found either a body or remains. Their legal issue is that at a point in time, ZA (solely or jointly with others) made her dead, not what happened to the body after he did so, and they have what they consider to be proof of that deed.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jggordo View Post
    I believe LE found "proof of death" in their searches. I don't know what is so hard to understand. LE owes absolutely no explanation to the public in regard to Holly's remains. There are some states (KS) that do not release that information unless it has to do with "public safety". A kid was murdered in Desoto KS 10/30/2013. His COD or autopsy results STILL have not been released, and won't until trial.

    Also it is quite possible that the photos and such may only be shown to the jurors, with the public never seeing them. LE gives the victims families a lot more reverence when it comes to the gore of some of the crimes. To me it's too bad that the public does not get that too. JMO
    RE: His COD or autopsy results STILL have not been released, and won't until trial.
    jggordo, although I agree with most of your post. The COD and autopsy results are withheld from the public in many murder investigations. Yet, it is rare for investigators to refuse to release info as to remains being located, imo.

    Holly Bobo investigation; search of Zachary Adams property;
    http://www.wmctv.com/story/24851937/...olly-bobo-case

    In the search video(link above) of ZA's property where the sifting of the dirt is taking place over the blue tarp. A T probing rod can be observed being used by one of the members of the forensic team. Imo, once K9s had indicated a grave site, a Labrador (LABRADOR – light-weight analyser for buried remains and decomposition odor recognition, based on specific chemical compounds found relevant to human decomposition)would have been used for verification prior to using the probing rod. The use of the probing rod indicates that remains were located, jmho..

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/231197.pdf

    Document Title: A New Forensics Tool: Development of an
    Advanced Sensor for Detecting Clandestine Graves

    FINAL REPORT Grant/Award Number: 2007-DN-R-104

    Arpad Vass, Ph.D. (PI)
    Life Sciences Division
    Oak Ridge National Laboratory

    Cyril V. Thompson, M.S.
    Chemical Sciences Division
    Oak Ridge National Laboratory

    Marc Wise, Ph.D.
    Chemical Sciences Division
    Oak Ridge National Laboratory
    Last edited by Foxfire; 03-15-2014 at 11:50 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
    Yep, there's no question they found (at the very least, what they regard as) proof of death. That's not something we even have to debate. Without that, they cannot legally arrest ZA on a charge of murder.

    But that's a different issue from whether they found a body, or remains. They need not have found either a body or remains. Their legal issue is that at a point in time, ZA (solely or jointly with others) made her dead, not what happened to the body after he did so, and they have what they consider to be proof of that deed.
    I agree they are certain she is dead and that Za killed her...but again, I cannot recall a case where remains were found and not reported openly. Finding of any remains requires a whole lot of special personnel, IMO and I cannot recall if we heard about MI's or Coroners being on scene. Maybe they were. I just find it difficult to believe that remains were found and the press did not get wind of it or that there would be a need to hide this. But am also anxious as to what convinced the family she is dead, as that is rare, without remains. Possibly a large amount of blood. JMO
    Just my opinion, of course.

  4. #34
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    There is one thing I don't understand though. How can the same DA that reduced or dismissed previous charges against ZA over the past years be the same one to be trusted to prosecute him now. How can he do that? Just wondering and JMO.

  5. #35
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I agree they are certain she is dead and that Za killed her...but again, I cannot recall a case where remains were found and not reported openly.
    What may or may not have happened in other cases doesn't tell us what they did or didn't find.

    Simply put, we don't know what we don't know. Is it possible they found something? Sure. Is it possible they didn't? Sure. Our lack of knowing doesn't tell what we don't know. And we'll know when we know.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Even the Bobo's are no longer putting up fliers nor are there any more searches by those who have searched for Holly.. I think they know its over and Holly is in Heaven. For the first time ever in three long years the Bobo's have NOW resigned themselves into believing Holly is now dead.

    Imo, that can only be because the TBI/FBI has found concrete evidence that she has indeed been murdered. I have kept up with so many case like the Bobo parents find themselves in and the only way they ever believed their child was really dead is to know that the body or partial remains of their loved one had been recovered. Until that time even though murder charges may have been filed they do not let go of that hope that maybe LE is wrong and their loved one is alive somewhere.

    They do not have to release this information to the public. The only ones that needs to know is the Bobo family and imo they do. They will have a memorial service for her at some point in time so those who loved Holly and the community who poured out their hearts and time searching for her can pay their final respects.

    I don't think the DA is hiding it. He just doesn't have to release it and then knowing if he did he will have to answer a barrage of gruesome questions by reporters asking him about the condition of the remains when found. It spares the family for now by not releasing the condition of Holly when found. They will go through enough pain at trial when they have to sit there and hear ever brutal detail.

    The biggest piece of evidence in any case is the body of the victim. And I have never known of a DA to consider the death penalty right off the bat when there wasn't a body recovered or at least partial remains or even brain matter found.

    Whether they found her intact or partial remains (such as bone, brain matter,tissue etc.) I do believe they have found some part of her.

    JMO though

    OH! I took the question to be whether or not they were still looking for "Holly" as in her remains. Yes, I absolutely agree that they have all come to the conclusion that she is deceased. Of course they are no longer looking for HER. I thought someone was asking whether or not we had heard about anymore searches for the body. I misunderstood.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    OH! I took the question to be whether or not they were still looking for "Holly" as in her remains. Yes, I absolutely agree that they have all come to the conclusion that she is deceased. Of course they are no longer looking for HER. I thought someone was asking whether or not we had heard about anymore searches for the body. I misunderstood.
    Yes that was my original question. We don't know whether they found her body, remains nor what was found to absolutely convince the family she is deceased.

    I'm going to guess they may have found some of her remains and that is the reason they went with first degree murder and possible DP in this case.

    That said, if they only found parts of her remains and Holly was my daughter, I'd want them to continue looking for her.

    I'm with Cluciano on this. I have never come across a case when a body or remains of the deceased kidnapped victim was found and not disclosed to the public. Never.

    That was why I asked the question and I'm wondering if this will be a case based solely on circumstantial evidence. I hope NOT.
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    Yes that was my original question. We don't know whether they found her body, remains nor what was found to absolutely convince the family she is deceased.

    I'm going to guess they may have found some of her remains and that is the reason they went with first degree murder and possible DP in this case.

    That said, if they only found parts of her remains and Holly was my daughter, I'd want them to continue looking for her.

    I'm with Cluciano on this. I have never come across a case when a body or remains of the deceased kidnaped victim was found and not disclosed to the public. Never.

    That was why I asked the question and I'm wondering if this will be a case based solely on circumstantial evidence. I hope NOT.
    two possibilities:

    1) they could have evidence indicating they won't find a body (disposed of in a manner to preclude finding any remains)

    2) they could have enough evidence for a likely conviction without a body and are hoping the discovery phase of the case might open opportunities for finding the body (i.e. - they've searched everywhere and are hoping something that comes up during pre-trial will give them more places to look).

    it could be neither of these but i wouldn't be surprised if it was #2. i also do not think they've found any remains or the family would be preparing a memorial. i've never heard of a case where remains were found and that information wasn't made public.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
    What may or may not have happened in other cases doesn't tell us what they did or didn't find.

    Simply put, we don't know what we don't know. Is it possible they found something? Sure. Is it possible they didn't? Sure. Our lack of knowing doesn't tell what we don't know. And we'll know when we know.
    That's fine but this is a discussion board and we theorize based on what we do know.

    We don't know they found her. We only know she is deceased. If they haven't found her, I'd want them to continue searching even if it takes years.
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by masootz View Post
    two possibilities:

    1) they could have evidence indicating they won't find a body (disposed of in a manner to preclude finding any remains)

    2) they could have enough evidence for a likely conviction without a body and are hoping the discovery phase of the case might open opportunities for finding the body (i.e. - they've searched everywhere and are hoping something that comes up during pre-trial will give them more places to look).

    it could be neither of these but i wouldn't be surprised if it was #2. i also do not think they've found any remains or the family would be preparing a memorial. i've never heard of a case where remains were found and that information wasn't made public.
    So your # 1 is circumstantial evidence correct? I'm hoping it's #2
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀


  11. #41
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    In little April Jone's case in England, police only ever found blood stains and tiny fragments of bone in a fireplace. It was enough for them to make an arrest and get a confession (of sorts) out of her murderer. But there was never any announcement of a body found because of that, as I recollect. Just that 'evidence' of her death had been found.

    Is it just me, or does the link on the home page not really lead to this thread? When I follow it, I just get lost in a load of closed threads.....
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22

  12. #42
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    Yes, it was just fragments. Special permission had to be granted in order to hold an inquest in the absence of a body. I'm not sure if they even ever managed to get conclusive DNA.

    April's killer got life, anyhow. He will never be released. And he's not having an easy time in prison...
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-24105518
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22

  13. #43
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    My theory is that ZA kept something surrounding the death of Holly, maybe clothing or jewelry, maybe even bones/hair or who knows what. He might have taken photographs. *shudder* You can use your imagination, but that would be proof that she was dead without having a body.

    Possibly they found Holly's DNA (blood/hair/bodily fluids) in one of those cars they hauled away.

    Every time remains are found in the Southeast we have to go through the gory truth that if the skeleton has been out in the woods for three years there's not going to be much left, and it's going to be scattered by wild animals, everything from coyotes to wild hogs.

    If ZA ever got nervous, he might have made sure the skeleton washed away in a flood. We had record-breaking rainfall last year. There are ponds and rivers all over the place. That would be a good reason why he himself might not know where her remains are at this time.

    All they really need is a small bone fragment with Holly's DNA on the Adams property to prove she is dead. Why would they need to search all over the place if they think she died there?

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
    In little April Jone's case in England, police only ever found blood stains and tiny fragments of bone in a fireplace. It was enough for them to make an arrest and get a confession (of sorts) out of her murderer. But there was never any announcement of a body found because of that, as I recollect. Just that 'evidence' of her death had been found.

    Is it just me, or does the link on the home page not really lead to this thread? When I follow it, I just get lost in a load of closed threads.....
    It's not just you. I've done it a few times and I'm not sure why this thread doesn't appear with the rest. I now click on hot cases and locate it that way.
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

  15. #45
    Would someone "talking" and confessing to being involved in a part of the kidnapping or disposal of body or murder, be enough evidence to charge ZA with 1st degree murder? How much weight would a co-accused's or witness testimony be worth? I was just wondering if they haven't got a body or remains to prove she was murdered, would someone else's testimony that they were there and saw her killed be enough to prove that ZA murdered her?

    And if they have found remains, what would be the purpose for keeping that from the public? What benefit could it have? To control other perps potentially involved to use against them? To lay charges against other people when more evidence is found?
    I'm just really stunned that they haven't said either way - like other people have said, I've never seen a case before where they didn't release that information, especially a case where they're considering the DP. Would they be able to prosecute a DP case with no remains? Has that ever been done before?

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