10-25-2013, 12:51 AM #1Former Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11
21-year-old Maura Murray disappeared on Monday, February 9, 2004 following a minor 1-car accident on Route 112 near Woodsville, New Hampshire.
Maura Murray Missing - http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/
NamUs - https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/54/0/
Charley Project - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murray_maura.html
Last edited by bessie; 01-09-2015 at 05:52 PM.
03-15-2014, 03:01 PM #2
I just reread the dispatch call logs from the 24 hours in which Maura went missing. FM called when he found out about the accident and said he had "important information" for the officer in charge of her case. I would really like to know what this information was, and if it really was important, or just something FM considered to be such."The place where you made your stand never mattered. Only that you were there...and still on your feet." ~ Stephen King
03-15-2014, 04:14 PM #3
I'm stuck in bed today...invisible illnesses are a$$clowns. Please don't mind all of my posts that possibly have no connection to each other, other than being about Maura.
FM has said that when police dogs were used on the Wednesday after Maura disappeared, they were given a pair of gloves from the car to smell. The gloves were new...possibly not worn yet. FM wanted them to re-search using her running shoes, or something else she had more contact with, but they didn't repeat the search at that time. We know that the dogs lost the scent 100 yards east of the Saturn. After researching a bit about tracking dogs and air scent dogs, could the factors of time, scene contamination, and the newness of the gloves have caused the dog to lose her scent?"The place where you made your stand never mattered. Only that you were there...and still on your feet." ~ Stephen King
03-15-2014, 04:26 PM #4
Why did Maura have FM's car to begin with after dinner?
Why was Maura so "agitated" about getting the car back to him at 2am+?
How did she get into his hotel room after the accident, get his phone, and use it to make phone calls to BR and others without waking him up?
What happened to the carpet samples from the A frame house that cadaver dogs alerted at? (Private Investigators didn't turn this information over to LE for 2.5 years.)
What happened to the residents of the above house, who, according to a local resident, haven't been seen in the area since Maura disappeared?
What happened to the knife that the now-deceased man sent to police in 2004?"The place where you made your stand never mattered. Only that you were there...and still on your feet." ~ Stephen King
03-15-2014, 05:34 PM #5Why was Maura so "agitated" about getting the car back to him at 2am+?
03-15-2014, 07:53 PM #6
That. Makes. No. Sense.
I know people have time lined it out to show Maura couldn't have been involved in the hit and run on Vasi, but FM's insurance appraiser saw the Saturn with "extensive body damage" when he was reviewing the Toyota, which was before her "second" accident.
FM continues to say "what happened before she disappeared doesn't matter", because he believes Maura was abducted and killed, so none of those details would help find her. I can understand that, IF it was a certainty she was abducted. If there is even a sliver of a chance of Maura being alive, though, then FM does her a disservice by refusing to talk, misleading LE, and outright lying, because anything could be a clue.
03-15-2014, 08:21 PM #7
And as long as I'm talking about FM, who according to his Supplemental Narrative to UMass PD, didn't find out about the accident until Maura woke up at 10am, said this:
"I was sure she would call because she wouldn't let me down again." In regards to calling her Sunday about getting reports and such. In the Narrative, he mentions her letting him down numerous times, even though in interviews he has said the accident was no big deal, and nothing that would cause Maura to run.
Gee, maybe she felt like she "let him down" one time too many...
03-15-2014, 09:57 PM #8
I for one, after reviewing all the evidence, am convinced that Maura and Fred's relationship was very strained when she left that Monday. That does not mean that Fred was a bad father or Maura was a bad person; it just means that they were going through hard time.
I still am trying to figure out why Maura was so desperate to get the car back to her dad. I have some thoughts.
Let's break it down: Maura was hell-bent on returning the car to Fred at his hotel room. At 2 in the morning. This is odd for several reasons. Was Maura thinking she would sleep in the hotel room? Was Maura confident her father would be awake at that hour? (My parents who are Fred's age are only awake at 2 am if they are having a bout of insomnia) Why does Maura think there is a difference between returning the car at 2 am versus 8 am? Were they planning on departing to go somewhere at 5 am? I don't get it. Maura's father at least knew she had been drinking earlier that night, wouldn't he be upset that she was driving his car at 2 am on a Sunday in a college town?
Maura told her friends that she needed to get her dad's car back to him (which made no sense to them), but maybe she just needed to see her father for some reason. What could not wait until morning?
I can think of some possibilities. The main thing that comes to mind is that Maura was planning on dropping out of school, or she was worried that she was about to be kicked out of school or the dorms. Recall that she had already been kicked out of one school. Her father comes up that weekend to shop for a new car for her (assume this is true). At this point Maura knows she does not need another car "for school". How guilty is she feeling at this point? Nothing major happened between Sunday morning and Monday morning, yet Maura had decided to pack up her room. Whether Maura was planning on disappearing for good, she was planning on leaving her dorm, and very likely also the university. So back to that night at Fred's hotel. Was Maura just feeling so much guilt that she could not stand it anymore? Was she agitated because she really felt the need at that moment to go tell Fred that she was leaving school? Did the car shopping earlier that day really seal it for her? I mean, did she see that her father was all ready to spend $4,000 to get her back and forth from clinicals that she had no intention of doing, and did that push her guilt over the precipice?
03-15-2014, 11:09 PM #9
I know she was at her campus job when Vasi was hit on Friday night...but could she have run out for food? Lent someone her car? Maybe that was the upsetting phone call.
Then the day with her dad. Then dinner, and they pick up her friend. FM goes drinking with them, but doesn't remember if he went to buy wine with them or not. Maura is driving. Was he drunk? Tired? They drop him off, go to party, etc.
After the accident, she talks to BR and he thinks she is upset about more than just the accident. Could it be because she may be charged, which could hurt the cc deal? Because she had an accident in the Saturn already? Upset about a different reason FM is there?
She goes to sleep, FM wakes up at 10am to find her in bed asleep. She tells him about the accident when she wakes up. He says when he takes her back to school she is "whimpering" and slumped down.
He goes on and on about the trouble to get a replacement car on a Sunday, how upset she was, how she let him down...but it was no big deal?
You're right, it definitely seems like there was some conflict going on between them.
I think whatever happened between that morning and when he dropped her off pushed her over the edge. That's when she started doing the searches for places to stay...that's when she decided to go to Burlington/Stowe.
03-16-2014, 06:30 AM #10Registered User
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
I think Fred was worried that law enforcement would discover that he had withdrawn all that cash right before her disappearance and concocted the car shopping story to explain why he had it. I don't know what the $4,000 cash was truly intended for, but I don't think it was to purchase a car.
03-16-2014, 08:34 AM #11
This is a very intriguing discussion. I have often wondered if Maura was fearful or uncomfortable about someone at her dorm which is why she chose not to stay there the night of the party and why she packed up her stuff to move out. I also believe that Fred is not being entirely genuine about events on night of the party. Its so frustrating as the days just prior to her disappearance are so key to this mystery and yet noone seems to want to talk about them. Why?"Often the hands will solve a mystery that the intellect has struggled with in vain". Carl Jung.
"Coop...two and two do not always equal four". Twin Peaks. Episode 2.6.
03-16-2014, 02:51 PM #12
Though it does not seem very likely (I think Maura's problems were internal), it would make a lot more sense to me that someone was following/stalking Maura than that she just happened to run into a "local dirtbag."
03-17-2014, 10:02 AM #13
One girl from the party "couldn't remember" who else was there. Another girl didn't want to talk about anything because she "didn't want to get Maura into trouble". What could have gone on or been said there that could have gotten her into trouble? drinking? doubtful.
What if she told them what happened to her car for it to have been damaged? One auto body expert and one police officer knew it was damaged prior to her disappearing, whether she was the one to cause that damage or not. Maybe while drinking, she got a little confessional. that happens, right? you drink a little, and start telling everyone you love them, or tell someone that you secretly hate your mother in law. Maybe she decided to come clean to her dad about what happened to her car...became agitated about going right then. If she had said she was going to confess, they may have stopped her, so she said she needed to return the car. (I happen to think, nothing against Maura, that she was quite accomplished at lying.) She decides if she doesn't do it right then she won't do it at all. She lies, says she is going to her room, and takes off for the hotel. Accident. (which will impact her cc case, so add that to her building stress.)
Gets to the hotel, and according to FM she doesn't wake him up. I don't believe that, but we can say that's what happened. She calls BR and he says she's upset, but there seems to be something else bothering her. (does she tell him, too? or is he in the dark?)
FM wakes up at 10am, gets the story at 10:30am. FM drops her off at her dorm at 1:00pm. I'll attach his Supplemental Narrative at the bottom. I read an analysis of it, and an expert in the matter feels there are indications of untruths and indications of fights between them. I think it reads false in places, as well. He doesn't remember if he picked up alcohol with the girls, but he remembers the kind of drinks they had. Too many details in some places, imho.
I wonder where that money went. They didn't use it. As Gene said, a deposit on a car would have made sense, however they didn't make one. There was a story about needing $2,000 more for a Geo, and planning on coming back with more money at a later date, however NO car salesperson in the area remembers seeing them or has a record of taking them for a test drive. Did FM ever deposit that money back into his account?
If Maura, after a royal tongue-lashing from FM, (I don't believe it was "no big deal" as he has made it sound in various places) decided that she was quits, could she have taken the $4,000? He couldn't have had it in his wallet...that's too much cash to sit on. It would have been in an envelope, right? In the glove compartment? On the seat? In the hotel room safe? If he found out that she took it, he certainly wouldn't have told LE - he was already struggling to convince them of foul play so they would look for her - if he had said she took $4,000 from him, they would add that to the "no evidence of foul play" and decided that she went voluntarily missing. that could also be another reason he continually says "what happened before doesn't matter" when asked about those days - it is a way to not tell the truth without actually lying about it.
I would really, really love to know if he ever deposited that money.
What happened to her car before she disappeared? (the FIRST first accident)
Where did the $4,000 go?
Why did Julie Murray, when questioned by JR, first say "I can tell you exactly why he was there" when asked why FM was in Amherst that weekend...then was interrupted and told not to answer...then said "I told the police. But I don't think I could tell you. It's an open investigation." (it is public knowledge they were car shopping, so if that was the answer, what's the big deal?)
FM has always been rabid about going after LE. Did they really mess up, or is he using misdirection?
If he wasn't really there to go car shopping, why was FM there? Maura had been on the Dean's list, but was she still getting good grades? (Maybe he was there to take her out of school.)
Last edited by walkingdeadgirl; 03-17-2014 at 10:13 AM. Reason: because grammarz
03-17-2014, 10:02 AM #14
I don't think that Supplemental Narrative worked. Here is the link.
03-17-2014, 10:08 AM #15
the A frame house, though, with the "known violent man" with a sex thing that is only 3/4ths of a mile from where she crashed...who has friends in law enforcement...and who hasn't been seen around since Maura disappeared.
that gives me an ugly tickle in the back of my throat. it's also the house where cadaver dogs went nuts. Who knows what happened to the carpet samples, though, since it was a group of private investigators that recovered the samples, and apparently due to internal conflict the samples were misplaced. LE didn't hear about or receive the samples for 2.5 years, and I haven't been able to find out what became of them.
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