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  1. #1
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    The Injuries

    Use this thread to discuss Reeva Steenkamp's injuries.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Some of the wounds showed that the bullets were atypically shaped when Steenkamp was hit, most likely from hitting the bathroom door first.

    Saayman confirmed that it was likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.

    Saayman added there were also small, superficial injuries caused by splinters.

    Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.
    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...0#.Ux3GD4WPNpV

    The court heard that Steenkamp had a few bruises on her body that were not as a result of the shooting.
    Her upper eyelids were blue-reddish and there was soft tissue swelling but no injury to the eyes.
    This was not caused by direct trauma but a fracture to the skull.
    As Saayman explained that it could have been blood leaking from the skull Pistorius retched loudly.
    There were also bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.
    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ge-pathologist

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...3#.Ux3o_IWPNpU
    Pathologist Gert Saayman told the court that Steenkamp did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.

    Saayman described the wound to her head as an incapacitating wound, and said there was physical damage to the brain because of a substantial fracture to the base of the skull.
    However, both the injuries to her arm and her right groin or hip area could have been fatal as well, he said. Her right hip bone was shattered and this was likely to cause immediate instability, he explained.

    As Saayman spoke of the "painful wound", Pistorius bowed his head and retched. He said Steenkamp would have collapsed and, unless she had something to grip onto, it would have been difficult to get back up. It was also an incapacitating injury that if not operated on immediately could be fatal. He said there was a 50/50 chance of surviving the injury.

    He described the wound to Steenkamp's arm as devastating. Her right arm was shattered, leaving it with no functionality.
    Saayman said any of the head, arm or groin injuries could have caused her death because she needed urgent medical assistance to survive them.
    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...er-trial-day-6
    http://citizen.co.za/141417/steenkam...hs-head-wound/
    Pathologist Gert Saayman said Steenkamp had two scratches on her back. This could have been caused by a blunt object or shrapnel.

    Her right buttock was bluish in colour. Saayman said this could have stemmed from the injury that Steenkamp had sustained on her right hip, where a bullet had penetrated.

    There was some reddish discoloration on her right nipple, said Saayman. He said this could have been caused by frictional contact.
    Earlier, Saayman told the court that Steenkamp had also sustained wounds to her head, hips and hand.
    http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b0618...cks-and-breast
    ...a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head. ...Saayman said a bulk of the projectile went into the brain.

    The upper left arm was deformed due to the amount of fracture...

    Wounds were caused by multiple small fragments. There was bruising in skin around the wounds. The right upper arm had a bluish discolouration surrounding that wound.

    ...Steenkamp's body was naked when it was brought in for the post mortem and her clothes were brought in along with the body. Saayman said the holes in the clothes corresponded to the wounds on the body.

    ...a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. He said a close-up view of injuries showed they were not penetrating injuries.

    ...gunshot wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. He said a defect he had seen on Steenkamp's pants was in line with this wound.

    ...injuries to her left groin but these were superficial small abrasions, possibly caused by wooden splinters, said Saayman.

    ...a wound that he noted on Steenkamp's left hand that was between her second and third finger.

    Steenkamp's Nike shorts had blood stains on them, and a small hole around 5mm in diameter. What initially seemed like a defect on the trousers turned out to be a blood spatter, he said.

    A sleeveless black vest accompanied the shorts. Saayman said small tissue and bone fragments could be seen on the vest.
    http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-m...ole-pistorius/
    Last edited by bessie; 03-15-2014 at 10:45 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
    Is anyone confident they have a definitive list of Reeva's wounds, and whereabouts they were? If so, please post!
    This is what I've compiled from several reports. Puzzled by the description of the fractured left arm.

    HEAD
    ...likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.
    ...a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head.
    ...a bulk of the projectile went into the brain.
    ...upper eyelids were blue-reddish
    ...soft tissue swelling but no injury to the eyes.
    ...not caused by direct trauma but a fracture to the skull.
    ...Steenkamp did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.
    ...described the wound to her head as an incapacitating wound
    ...physical damage to the brain because of a substantial fracture to the base of the skull.

    RIGHT HIP/GROIN
    ...a gunshot wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. He said a defect he had seen on Steenkamp's pants was in line with this wound.
    ...right hip bone was shattered and this was likely to cause immediate instability.
    ..."painful wound"
    ...injuries to her arm and her right groin or hip area could have been fatal
    ...would have collapsed and, unless she had something to grip onto, it would have been difficult to get back up.
    ...incapacitating injury that if not operated on immediately could be fatal. He said there was a 50/50 chance of surviving the injury.
    ...a blue discoloration on her inner right buttocks that could have been caused from the bullet wound to her right hip.

    RIGHT ARM
    ...right arm was shattered, leaving it with no functionality.
    ...right upper arm had a bluish discolouration surrounding that wound.


    LEFT ARM ???
    ...upper left arm was deformed due to the amount of fracture...

    OTHER
    Wounds were caused by multiple small fragments. There was bruising in skin around the wounds.
    ...a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. ...not penetrating injuries.
    ...injuries to her left groin but these were superficial small abrasions, possibly caused by wooden splinters
    ...a wound that he noted on Steenkamp's left hand that was between her second and third finger.
    Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.
    ...a few bruises on her body that were not as a result of the shooting.
    ...no injury to the eyes.
    ...bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.
    ...a reddish bruise on the right nipple. ...could have been caused by frictional contact.
    ...two scratches on her back. This could have been caused by a blunt object or shrapnel.

    http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-m...ole-pistorius/

    http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b0618...cks-and-breast

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ge-pathologist

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...3#.Ux34c4WPNpV

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...0#.Ux34foWPNpW
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisto_lius View Post
    Just my (changed) speculation

    - OP attacked Reeva....

    - Reeva wanted to flee.... she run to the bedroom door - not knowing it was locked..... she screamed....

    - OP fired the first shot through the bedroom door
    (he stood in the bedroom, one cartridge was found close to the bedroom in the passage to the bathroom)....

    - this was the first shot neighbours heard..... Reeva screamed louder.....

    - then Reeva was able to flee into the toilet room.... OP was getting angrier.... he beat at the bedroom door with his gun and then followed Reeva....

    - now neighbous heard Reeva's blood-curdling screams....

    - OP fired three further shots through the toilet door....
    (three cartridges were found in the bathroom - Reeva was hit three times BUT



    Maybe this was the *mysterious* bullet (or cartridge ?) that the DT found in the toilet bowl ?

    - this were the other shots neighbours heard....

    This I find very puzzling. No exit wound, a shattered hip bone so the bullet went deep, yet it somehow can't be found?

    The bullet he found 'tangled in her clothing'...wouldn't that be it? This is why I think Reeva should not have been undressed, although I still can't imagine that bullet falling out of her wound, unless it was a very, very large injury. Maybe it was, and it's best not to think about it.

    Oh, quote I was talking about didn't appear. It's the hip wound with a blue discolouration on inner right buttock maybe caused by a bullet, that I am talking about.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
    This I find very puzzling. No exit wound, a shattered hip bone so the bullet went deep, yet it somehow can't be found?

    The bullet he found 'tangled in her clothing'...wouldn't that be it? This is why I think Reeva should not have been undressed, although I still can't imagine that bullet falling out of her wound, unless it was a very, very large injury. Maybe it was, and it's best not to think about it.

    Oh, quote I was talking about didn't appear. It's the hip wound with a blue discolouration on inner right buttock maybe caused by a bullet, that I am talking about.

    It's so annoying - a lot of journalists sit inside the courtroom and they all heard the same words. But the reports about what was said are so different and contradictory that in the end no one knows what really was said

    And of witnesses is expected that they all hear, see and testify exactly the same.....


    The bullet that hit the hip

    It seems the bullet that hit Reeva's hip was so fragmented it was impossible to retrieve fragments. And that's the reason why some journalists reported "no projectile could be found" - they found only a piece of a bullet tangled in the clothing

    But there were exit wounds ! And this means: these bullets could have been found somewhere in the toilet room...


    Entrance and exit wounds

    Saayman found a piece of a bullet tangled in the clothing, which was given to investigators.

    [….]

    Saayman then described Steenkamp's other external injuries, including two wounds on her skull and scalp.

    [….]

    Another wound was found on Steenkamp's fractured upper arm, which showed the bullet had passed through it entirely.

    [….]

    Saayman confirmed that it was likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.

    [….]

    Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...0#.UyTZ_j95OSo

    "According to Saayman, Steenkamp suffered bullet wounds in her head, hip and elbow and any could have caused her death because of the extent of the bleeding. She also received injuries from bullet fragments, wood splinters from the door and pieces of her own bone.

    [….]

    He also described exit wounds caused by the bullets and other abrasions and discolouration of the skin, consistent with the impact of a bullet fired through a wooden object such as a door.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nkamp-shooting

    Saayman noted an entrance and exit wound to Steenkamp's head. There was also an entrance and exit wound to her right arm, just above the elbow. This wound was also scattered with shrapnel.

    http://www.enca.com/south-africa/osc...ists-testimony

    Saayman described how a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head.

    [….]

    Steenkamp's sport shorts had blood stains on them, and a small hole around 5mm in diameter.

    What initially seemed like a defect on the trousers turned out to be a blood spatter, said Saayman.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...reeva-s-wounds

    Pathologist Gert Saayman described a massive head wound caused when a bullet hit Steenkamp in the head and traveled under her skin before penetrating her skull. The bullet then split into two, he said, with one fragment exiting the body.

    [….]

    He said another bullet entered her upper right arm, shattering the bone and then exiting the body.

    [….]

    …. a fourth bullet was found, along tissue and blood, in the black sleeveless vest she had been wearing

    [….]

    One bullet hit the hip bone and broke into many pieces, he said.

    http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/...ial-hears-aut/
    -------------------------

    It is easy to tell the difference between an entrance and an exit wound. Where the bullet entered the body, there will be a reddish-brown area of scraped skin, and only a little bleeding.

    An exit wound is bigger, and is likely to extrude tissue. There is also likely to be much heavier bleeding.

    http://www.health24.com/Medical/Firs...ounds-20120721

    Exit wounds will often bleed profusely as they are larger but entrance wounds can sometimes look only like small holes - unless the weapon is fired at close proximity to the victim.

    http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/en...it-wounds.html
    .
    .

  5. #5
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    Question with anyone familiar with medical terminology in South Africa:

    "a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. ...not penetrating injuries."

    Does this wording make sense to you? In the U.S. the term fracture is used to denote a broken bone. We would use the term "superficial laceration" to denote a tear in the skin, which is what I take this to be describing.

    Is this different in SA? Or is this something else that I am just not familiar with?

    --------------------------------

    "a bulk of the projectile went into the brain."

    Don't know why OP felt he needed to lie about this, but it is highly, highly , HIGHLY doubtful that by the time he beat the door down and got into her that Reeva was alive. Perhaps the "she died in my arms" was just something that he found romantically appealing?

  6. #6
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    "around the wounds.
    ...a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. ...not penetrating injuries.
    ...injuries to her left groin but these were superficial small abrasions, possibly caused by wooden splinters
    ...a wound that he noted on Steenkamp's left hand that was between her second and third finger.
    Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.
    ...a few bruises on her body that were not as a result of the shooting.
    ...no injury to the eyes.
    ...bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.
    ...a reddish bruise on the right nipple. ...could have been caused by frictional contact.
    ...two scratches on her back. This could have been caused by a blunt object or shrapnel.

    http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-m...ole-pistorius/

    http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b0618...cks-and-breast

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ge-pathologist

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...3#.Ux34c4WPNpV

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...0#.Ux34foWPNpW[/QUOTE]"

    respectfully snipped by me.........BBM......these make me believe there WAS and altercation prior to Reeva seeking refuge in the locked toilet.....she felt safe enough in there from a bat......but OP upped the anti and brought out his firearm.

    moooooooo
    Last edited by Really?; 03-16-2014 at 11:13 AM. Reason: spelling
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  7. #7
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    Newly released photos posted online today show what looks to me like the end of a bloodied cricket bat. I do believe he hit her with the bat before he shot her through the locked toilet area door.. .

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Steenkamp.html


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    Newly released photos posted online today show what looks to me like the end of a bloodied cricket bat. I do believe he hit her with the bat before he shot her through the locked toilet area door.. .

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Steenkamp.html
    The link you have given is to a "report", if you can credit the Daily Mail with such a thing, dated 31st March so hardly deserving of the description, "Newly released photos posted online today".

    And what evidence are you seeing or using to determine what both the State's pathologist and blood spatter expert and others have categorically denied, i.e. that Reeva was hit with the bat or had any blunt trauma. Not even the bat photo shows any indication that that she was hit with it only typical blood spatter.

  10. #10
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    Forgive me as its been a long time since I visited this forum but wasn't reva on toilet with left side toward Oscar not right side at least that's the setup of bathroom that I recall


  11. #11
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    I have a full weekend but I want to say thanks for all the informative posts and all of the links. Thanks Beach for all your work and I hope whatever real life problems were going on have been taken care of or at least slowed down

  12. #12
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    wollie on the stand , continuing.. dealing with bullet holes..

    wollie says.. he is pointing out where the bullet holes are, oh. he says. hahah I am pointing at the wrong part. correction.

    the right upper arm.. 117 centimeters above .. ( Roux leading the questions of the witness ) .. referring to the pattern of the shots, the entrance wound, the exit wound.

    Wollie says a large exit wound, the humerous was struck, bone , he gets a bit stutter, Roux interrupts him, and that's a mistake, Wollie gets more discombobulated..

    Woll cant say exactly how it was. Roux appears to be moving him along like cattle thru a grid. rush rush rush.

    the abrasions are secondary wounds.. wooden splinters, in his opinion.. check with pics 24 and 25

    woll is handing up literature from De Myers. Roux wants this to hurry hurry hurry..

    bullet hole E and D. in relation to the head wound.


    entrance wound, and exit wound to the head. caused by a bullet perforating. it is his opinion the person wasn't standing when the head wound occurred.. the measured height ,from the heel to the head. the wounds seem to be consistent with the person falling down towards the toilet bowl.

  13. #13
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    Warning Graphic: Why is there no blood on her face?

    Reeva's head wounds were massive, and bled heavily. It was said by, or repeated by many that she was slumped over, fallen forward
    with her head resting on the on the toilet etc. Remarkably, she had little or no blood on her face when the crime scene photos were taken.

    Did OP clean her face before bringing her downstairs?
    Attached Images Attached Images



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